Version 4 of the game

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Me personally, I heartily encourage people to keep creating material for the earlier game versions if they wish to do so, specifically because there seems to be a trend in modern games for "streamlined" rules and more "narrative" content. Streamlined, meaning little in the way of rules to give you guidance.
I've found that games with those two concepts tend to leave me unsatisfied with the gameplay - they're dull and uninspiring

Naturally it depends on the game system you choose but I've found that for my tastes, certain older game systems offer the right mix of GM freedom and rules/mechanics. I like to have a rules as guidelines but I want those guidelines to be solid & robust. A lot of the games on offer these days come across to me like some tabletop version of interpretative dance while ignoring the idea of teamwork.

Now I'm not saying that this new version of T2k is going to be "rules-lite and catering to the angsty, whiney, tell-my-own-story-rather-than-follow-the-GM's-story player" kind of game but those types of games appear to be popular enough at the moment to be a market-influence on the rules designs.

EDIT: just realized that Chris Lites is probably one and the same guy that wrote the Dust rpg - which is a rules-light, action-adventure style game.
https://www.modiphius.com/dust-adventures.html
I'm not saying that that makes me think a 4th edition of T2k is going to lack the mechanics that make the game something you can sink your teeth into, but it does make me think that I'll wait for some game reviews before deciding to buy it or not.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Me personally, I heartily encourage people to keep creating material for the earlier game versions if they wish to do so, specifically because there seems to be a trend in modern games for "streamlined" rules and more "narrative" content. Streamlined, meaning little in the way of rules to give you guidance.
I've found that games with those two concepts tend to leave me unsatisfied with the gameplay - they're dull and uninspiring

Naturally it depends on the game system you choose but I've found that for my tastes, certain older game systems offer the right mix of GM freedom and rules/mechanics. I like to have a rules as guidelines but I want those guidelines to be solid & robust. A lot of the games on offer these days come across to me like some tabletop version of interpretative dance while ignoring the idea of teamwork.

Now I'm not saying that this new version of T2k is going to be "rules-lite and catering to the angsty, whiney, tell-my-own-story-rather-than-follow-the-GM's-story player" kind of game but those types of games appear to be popular enough at the moment to be a market-influence on the rules designs.

thank you that is what I needed to hear - even if for some reason the new game isnt looking for stuff on the older versions there is no reason that we cant still publish them even if its "fan canon"

[Olefin]

"EDIT: just realized that Chris Lites is probably one and the same guy that wrote the Dust rpg - which is a rules-light, action-adventure style game.
https://www.modiphius.com/dust-adventures.html
I'm not saying that that makes me think a 4th edition of T2k is going to lack the mechanics that make the game something you can sink your teeth into, but it does make me think that I'll wait for some game reviews before deciding to buy it or not."

Yes its the same guy - and yes I have the same concerns

Looked thru his bibliography and if he is writing for the game it is definitely going to go away from mechanics and more towards action adventure. Besides Dust he wrote several Conan Adventures, Mutant Chronicles, Infinity the Roleplaying Game, and Unknown Armies - none of which from what I can see have much in common with either the V1 or V2/2.2 version of the game - or even 2013 for that matter. I am hoping someone polls the fan base if they are deciding on that kind of change

[Olefin]

Based on who Chris Lites works for the new owners/licensee is probably going to be Modiphius Entertainment. Keep in mind this is conjecture as I have not heard anything at all yet officially.

People might want to look at their stuff and see what you think.

if its them this is their mission statement

Make partial or minor changes to (something), typically so as to improve it or to make it less extreme.

Transform (a structure) from its original anatomical form during development or evolution.

[Adm.Lee]

I hope whoever the publisher is will be reaching out to the community for playtesting.

Beyond that, I don't know what to think about this announcement.

[swaghauler]

I cannot linger long as I have a prior engagement but when I saw this thread I figured I'd add in what I know. IF Modiphius is the developer and they are using their trademarked 2D20 system, here's a decent tutorial of Conan 2D20 (the game I have actually played in this system)...

https://youtu.be/PSEljgkp0uk

I would call the 2D20 system a "medium crunch" cinematic system (where you can do all sorts of cool things using a feature known as MOMENTUM). It might work but I would have to see how they will deal with automatic weapons. John Carter and Star Trek both have projectile/energy weapons but those are not the same as modern automatic weapons. I don't know how the Mutant Chronicles does them (each 2D20 system is modified to fit the game using it).

I cannot get the video link to work so just YouTube Blades and Blaster's Modiphius 2D20 tutorial.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

John Carter and Star Trek both have projectile/energy weapons but those are not the same as modern automatic weapons. I don't know how the Mutant Chronicles does them (each 2D20 system is modified to fit the game using it).

From the Quickstart for Mutant Chronicles, it looks like there are three fire modes, all of which expend Reload tokens for bonuses:

Semi-Automatic: spend a Reload to get an extra d20 on attack and +1 Dark Symmetry die (a die that inflicts damage on a 1 or 2 and triggers a weapon's special ability on a 6).

Burst: spend 1 or 2 Reloads to get an extra d20 on attack and a number of Dark Symmetry dice equal to the Reloads spent.

Automatic: spend up to 3 Reloads to get an extra d20 on attack and a number of DS dice equal to Reloads spent.

Examples of special abilities triggered by a 6 on the Dark Symmetry die are Armor Piercing (ignore some armor), Knockdown, Spread (damage additional hit areas), Stun, and Vicious (inflict extra damage).

[mcchordsage]

About Modiphius, if they are involved, in my one experience with their new (relative terms I guess that was like 2017) Star Trek game, their playtesting process was easy to get involved with. I'd like to think they'd reach out to the community for some comments but who knows.

Whatever the ultimate outcome is, as someone who only contributes even more niche fan content (such as it is), I'll wait to see what happens and vote with my money. A bad timeline can go a long ways to that being a no-buy however the mechanical end turns out. T2K is a WWIII game to me, that's kind of a key aspect over other post-apocalyptic games out there to me.

[Legbreaker]

I've reached out to Modiphius on behalf of Raellus, Olefin and myself with the aim of discussing our products and how they might tie into the new edition.
Hopefully they get back to me shortly and we can figure something out.

Noted this on their website:

WRITERS PLEASE NOTE! You must have previous experience of contributing to a published roleplaying game and working to a deadline.

Seems that they may not be all that friendly to new writers...

[Jason Weiser]

Let's consider the last "made" contributors were people who have since retired from the industry for the most part, who the hell do they think they are going to get.

Yeah, I am now quite concerned.

That said here is my POV, I am slowly writing my "Charters of Freedom" adventure. (and I do mean slowly...) but the fact is, Rae, Olefin, Leg, and maybe even me...(I only say that because we're published), could meet their standard, if they squint, but the fact remains? I am not too impressed by that.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I've reached out to Modiphius on behalf of Raellus, Olefin and myself with the aim of discussing our products and how they might tie into the new edition.
Hopefully they get back to me shortly and we can figure something out.

Noted this on their website:
Seems that they may not be all that friendly to new writers...

I guess that relegates me to posting my house rules here in the forum.

[Sprocketteer]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

A lot of the games on offer these days come across to me like some tabletop version of interpretative dance while ignoring the idea of teamwork.

You Sir, are a Poet.



I own several of the Modiphius games and really do not like their 2d20 system.

Part of what my group and I enjoyed of Twilight 2000 (& The Morrow Project), was the 'feel' of the systems. To us the mechanics of those games worked with, and were an important part of the settings - they belonged together, and worked together - and to us non military types, 'felt' a bit military (and yes, gung ho-ing over the gun porn helped too lol) - for my groups at least.
It is hard for me to imagine a twilight game that doesn't use v1/2 rules.
My groups almost always preferred percentile based systems over d20, always felt more natural to us.


My initial concern was that it might appear using the wotc 5e OGL lol.
"Sarge! The LT is hit, we need a long rest!"

[vihkr]

Originally Posted by Sprocketteer

Part of what my group and I enjoyed of Twilight 2000 (& The Morrow Project), was the 'feel' of the systems. To us the mechanics of those games worked with, and were an important part of the settings - they belonged together, and worked together - and to us non military types, 'felt' a bit military (and yes, gung ho-ing over the gun porn helped too lol) - for my groups at least.
It is hard for me to imagine a twilight game that doesn't use v1/2 rules.
My groups almost always preferred percentile based systems over d20, always felt more natural to us.

Fair point, and my feelings exactly, but I think those days are over, as far as market share goes. The notable exception would be Basic Roleplaying d100, which could make a decent, spiritual successor in terms of a system, to v1/2.2

Originally Posted by Sprocketteer

My initial concern was that it might appear using the wotc 5e OGL lol.
"Sarge! The LT is hit, we need a long rest!"

Monk's truck is hit by an RPG! Everyone make a save vs. spells to dive out and take no damage!

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by vihkr

Fair point, and my feelings exactly, but I think those days are over, as far as market share goes. The notable exception would be Basic Roleplaying d100, which could make a decent, spiritual successor in terms of a system, to v1/2.2



Monk's truck is hit by an RPG! Everyone make a save vs. spells to dive out and take no damage!

Caught you! There is NO save versus Spells! That would be a DEX save and you'd better have Proficiency too!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Caught you! There is NO save versus Spells! That would be a DEX save and you'd better have Proficiency too!

And with 5th Ed., Dex is the One Stat To Rule Them All so if Monk makes his Dex save he probably only takes half damage at worst.
Forget using the RPG on the truck, try using it on Monk with D&D rules - Monk's a Warrior class so he's got buckets of hitpoints. He could probably survive a direct hit to the torso with a PG-7 round because of this, even if he failed the Dex check.


Which is exactly the reason I don't like using rules from a fantasy game for any modern, military, sci-fi or near-future games.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

And with 5th Ed., Dex is the One Stat To Rule Them All so if Monk makes his Dex save he probably only takes half damage at worst.
Forget using the RPG on the truck, try using it on Monk with D&D rules - Monk's a Warrior class so he's got buckets of hitpoints. He could probably survive a direct hit to the torso with a PG-7 round because of this, even if he failed the Dex check.


Which is exactly the reason I don't like using rules from a fantasy game for any modern, military, sci-fi or near-future games.

5e Is the ONLY RPG I have seen where a character can fall from low Earth orbit without a parachute, live, and be "fighting fit" the next day. It's kind of a joke to me. Give me RUNEQUEST's lethality any day!

Remember, it's NOT a real fight in BRP/RuneQuest if someone isn't suffering an amputation!

[vihkr]

>tanking RPG hits
>falling from LEO and surviving

Sounds like the perfect v5 ruleset /sarc

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I've reached out to Modiphius on behalf of Raellus, Olefin and myself with the aim of discussing our products and how they might tie into the new edition.
Hopefully they get back to me shortly and we can figure something out.

Noted this on their website:
Seems that they may not be all that friendly to new writers...

Originally Posted by Jason Weiser

Let's consider the last "made" contributors were people who have since retired from the industry for the most part, who the hell do they think they are going to get.

Yeah, I am now quite concerned.

That said here is my POV, I am slowly writing my "Charters of Freedom" adventure. (and I do mean slowly...) but the fact is, Rae, Olefin, Leg, and maybe even me...(I only say that because we're published), could meet their standard, if they squint, but the fact remains? I am not too impressed by that.

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I guess that relegates me to posting my house rules here in the forum.

Compare that with the approach that Clockwork Publishing took when deciding to produce a 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy... they actively asked well known members of the Dark Conspiracy fanbase if they knew people who would like to contribute to the new edition (as well as asking them if they wished to contribute).