Cooperville Part I:

[.45cultist]

My community is making the following, a 147gr. subsonic 9X19MM( E-Factor 8), 200gr. hollow point and fmj .45ACP(E-Factor 9, real world XTP and Speer Lawman @ 1000fps), and a pointed copper jacketed 173gr. zinc alloy metal piercing (E-Factor 10 real world Remington-Peter's Hi Way Master), lead practice 185gr. @ 750fps. The metal piercing round is a restricted trade item. The M1911A1's are "New" Mk IV Series 70 with the larger sights, the metal is similar to the post WWII commercial Colts(AKA the "Hard Colts"). AR15's and newer AR10's that share 60% of their parts are also manufactured. Limited vehicle manufacturing is on an irregular basis.

[mikeo80]

Is this in a game scenario or real life?

Because if this is game based, I have some SERIOUS questions.

My $0.02

Mike

[.45cultist]

It's based on real items, but is an exercise in learning the new rules. Which have rules for what industry a community has. It would also be a possible link to Warlock's Wildcards. But one learns form possible mistakes. I'm trying to put almost modern communities to aid the project, and I'm using some of my T2K2 items along with the Survivor's weapon table. I'm going to correct whatever doesn't fit. It may even make more sense if I hadn't jumped around.
I believe that the Hi Way Master is a very expensive collectable and I'm not sure if it has the same legal hang ups like KTW does.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

My community is making the following, a 147gr. subsonic 9X19MM( E-Factor 8), 200gr. hollow point and fmj .45ACP(E-Factor 9, real world XTP and Speer Lawman @ 1000fps), and a pointed copper jacketed 173gr. zinc alloy metal piercing (E-Factor 10 real world Remington-Peter's Hi Way Master), lead practice 185gr. @ 750fps. The metal piercing round is a restricted trade item. The M1911A1's are "New" Mk IV Series 70 with the larger sights, the metal is similar to the post WWII commercial Colts(AKA the "Hard Colts"). AR15's and newer AR10's that share 60% of their parts are also manufactured. Limited vehicle manufacturing is on an irregular basis.

To manufacture these you need metal cutting lathes, knee mills, horizontal mills, and a foundry.

Then you need trained draftsmen, a metallurgist, and machinists capable of trigonometry.

Not to mention an industrial base that can furnish lubricants, solvent, and tool bits of atleast high speed steel.

If you have all that............ Then it is post recovery.

[.45cultist]

Yes, but there are rules for industry in the new rules, so I'm bundling items I had in third edition and trying to see what's required. The third edition kind of hand waved this area.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Yes, but there are rules for industry in the new rules, so I'm bundling items I had in third edition and trying to see what's required. The third edition kind of hand waved this area.

Third edition does have broad generalizations for A, B, C, D, E tech levels. Then a chart for determining tech level of an unknown encounter. Most common are the least being D or E and really rare to meet A. Only the Frozen Chosen, Snake Eaters, and other Morrow personnel were A tech level if I remember correctly.

I don't have a copy of 4E for myself yet.

[Gelrir]

Groups with explicitly "Tech Level A" in the Third Edition:

• Snake Eaters - that's what they had in their bunkers
• Rich Five - they were frozen with Tech A stuff, but if you presume the KFS are the Rich Five, they could be making some Tech A stuff 150 years after The Big Oops.
• The Morrow Project
• Wandering Warlock

(The Frozen Chosen are Tech Level C. And I too haven't gotten the 4th Edition.)

So this community is manufacturing:

• smokeless ammunition, suitable for gas-operated weapons
• semi-automatic handguns
• gas-operated assault rifles

They are thus either making/mining, have made/mined, or have been given a hoard of:

• metals needed for all of the above (ordnance steel, zinc, brass, lead, tool steel, etc.)
• chemicals needed for all the above (nitrates, acids, sulfur, at least; lubricants for the machinery and the weapons)
• a gun-factory worth of machine tools
• dimensioned drawings for the weapons and ammo, with tolerances and units that more or less match the machinery in the gun-factory, the materials and processes available, and the skills of the workers

And they have some way to power a gun factory, an ammunition plant, and possibly a chemical plant. Plus they have skilled employees: for example, Para-Ordnance nowadays has about 60-65 workers, and they clearly don't mine their own iron ore, make their own ammunition, produce their own electrical power, etc.

I don't agree this has to be post-recovery (it's not all of America, after all; and many campaigns feature the KFS having all these capabilities) -- but it seems a bit ... much, for one community. Is this part of a larger nation: like, say, the Connecticut Valley in the early United States? Or something established ab initio by the Morrow Project?

"Rules for industry", mmm? How do those work?

--
Michael B.

[.45cultist]

The 4TH kept all that and has economic, resources rules centered around X amount of labor and materials for Y item at tech level Blank. economics center on the requirements for a kg of black or smokeless powder. I'm not doing the rules justice. Considering for 3RD ed. I was scrounging small industry, high school science and shop teachers for machinery and most ammo cases, bullets. And I had jewelers making the cups, copper foil and anvil for modern primers. I hope with this to have a 1940's- 1950's mix of tech. The people the team will encounter use black powder rifles for hunting because it's cheap and have M1911's under their jackets. BTW I forgot 230gr ball in the list. Perhaps the commercial M1911 load I read about: 230gr. cupro-nickel JFP@ 830-850fps.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

I don't agree this has to be post-recovery (it's not all of America, after all; and many campaigns feature the KFS having all these capabilities) -- but it seems a bit ... much, for one community. Is this part of a larger nation: like, say, the Connecticut Valley in the early United States? Or something established ab initio by the Morrow Project?

"Rules for industry", mmm? How do those work?

--
Michael B.

It is a whole lot much for one community.

The KFS is a nation. The leadership started after the war and has had 150 years to prepare and advance to where they are.

Granted they are self limiting because the Five are self serving and withhold advancements or resources to keep the common people in line.

Any community that is at the village level can and should have one possibly two industries that they do well. Something that is likely under the categories of Food, Shelter, and Clothing.

Trade in the PAW (Post Apocalyptic World) is going to be salvage or the occasional surplus. Anything up for trade is spare or the village can't use it or eat it.

Mining coal by hand can be one. Smelting salvaged metals could be another. Selling off or trading off trouble makers or selling themselves into indentured servitude for aid.

A successful agrarian village may export grain and cheese but, only for wool products or coal.

A successful barter village on a major city may trade copper wire, rubber tires, and women for meat, cheese, and flour.

The KFS may trade buffalo rifles but only for refined metal or functional mechanical devices like microwaves, radios, industrial kitchen equipment.

Etc.