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If we were to make a time set seven years in the future, what would it look like?
How different would it be from a NATO vs USSR clash we know from T2K? |
#2
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China Sea clash over Spratley Islands
Ukraine Russia clash Potential South America clash involving Columbia and Venezuela Economic crisis in Greece/Italy leading to civil war Syria war expands drawing in the US vs Russia clashes Mexico/US border clashes heat up US economic boycott of Chinese products Hey some of this sound like they came from TWL2013 Now just need some reason for Canada and the USA to .... ooops...
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************************************* Each day I encounter stupid people I keep wondering... is today when I get my first assault charge?? |
#3
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Proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran in Yemen and Syria. By means of deliberate attack, mistake, accident, brinksmanship, or what-have-you, the Israelis, Americans, and Russians (and their respective allies) get dragged into the fight. Voila! Armageddon a-la Revelations. It's not as far fetched as it seemed even just a decade ago.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
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True, but apart from the causes what else would be different?
The Satellite War would now have to be fairly involved and, as usual, possibly causing a Kessler Cascade where all the satellites in orbit are destroyed by debris. This means there will be no future satellite launches either for those 2300ad people. Goodbye GPS targeting, one of the most important artillery advances. Also good bye to instant map updating. |
#5
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Space force!
In all seriousness, the History Channel series Dogfights had a special near-future air/space warfare episode that was really great. This was 5-10 years ago. Unfortunately, it wasn't included on the DVD series. But the "special episode" had a "dogfight" between U.S. and Chinese space planes that seemed very realistic. Found it! It's not in HD, but it's worth your time if you have an interest in aerial warfare c. 2025. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9XgldnXb5s
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#6
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A little tweeking of IRL get's these premise:
The state of some western Europe forces suggest a desperate rearming. I don't believe any would jump to nukes. The refugee shuffling may stretch infrastructure and inflame friction in Europe, and even less so in Canada, where they don't want to integrate. And in the U.S. social strife is a big business already. |
#7
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I see Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and their proxies (Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, and potentially India) engaged with NATO either directly or indirectly. The various "War On Terror" campaigns (Afghanistan, Nijer, Uganda, Pakistan, Kenya, Somalia, etc...) will also draw away precious resources from the NATO countries in question.
Couple this with the reductions in military strength that many NATO nations are experiencing and the fact that there is NO "reserve production capacity" in the West (thanks to "Lean manufacturing") and you have the "Mad Scramble" that .45Cultist was talking about. I too believe that this would be a "come as you are" war. The big question is "What would be the Spark that ignites the Fires of War?" Will it be Syria, Yemen, or North Korea? Will there be some kind of "incident" in the Balkans? Will the State of Georgia (the one near Russia, not the US state) be the "Flashpoint?" Then there are the added "unknowns" to consider. What role would organizations such as ANTIFA (who are just as "Fascist" as the "Fascists" they purport to oppose) play on US (and European) soil? How would minorities feel about a "draft?" The World is NOT anymore stable today than it was during the Cold War. In fact, I would venture the opinion that it is LESS SO now. |
#8
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Thoroughly implausible and poorly-researched. None of that could ever happen.
- C.
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Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996 Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog. It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't. - Josh Olson |
#9
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What new weapons apart from drones have been developed since 2000?
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#10
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Quite a lot. Only got to trawl through Paul's site to see that.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#11
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#12
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I think an important aspect is that of the potential for modern Western society to break down under the strain of war. It's something that has been discussed in other threads but is particularly relevant to this one.
That is to say, the current Western practice of "just in time" deliveries will make the wartime civilian situation much worse than it was in the past. Shops don't hold large stocks anymore, often what you see on the shelf is all there is because they expect a "next day" delivery to replenish anything they sold. Military forces typically have a far more robust logistics system and so are unlikely to be affected by this but the situation in civilian organizations is likely to be very dire. I'm not just talking about things like food delivery to your local store but such things as medical supplies to hospitals, equipment and/or ammunition deliveries to police units and so on. I don't know what sort of ammunition stocks an inner-city US police station is likely to hold but in many other countries it's really minimal. In some Australia police stations, it amounts to about double the normal patrol issue of ammo per officer so for a small station of six officers (with the Glock or S&W semi-autos popular here, three mags per officer) we're talking approximately 300 rounds in total of handgun ammo. I think the potential for societal breakdown is far greater now than in the timeline of the Twilight War of 1st and 2nd editions because these days for example, if we have a disruption at the fuel stations, all those "just in time" deliveries will stop, shops will rapidly run short of supplies with little hope of getting resupplied within the week. In peacetime, these sorts of things get resolved by the government as fast as they are able but in wartime, the government's attention won't be able to focus exclusively on a civilian problem. That one week of no deliveries could lag on and last two weeks or more. By that time, some people will probably feel like taking the law into their own hands. |
#13
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I don't think is unreasonable for the following to happen 1. US moves to DEFCON 2 or 1 2. Border Security is Tighten 3. Increased Security at Key Infrastructure (Nuclear Power Plants, Power Dams Bridges waterways) 4. Full Federalized of the National Guard and Army Reserve 5. Selective Service begins 6. Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency starts preparing the nation.
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I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier. |
#14
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I think the issue of societal breakdown and civil disorder is one that gets exaggerated in both directions. I don't quite buy the sheep, wolves, sheepdogs trope. I don't think the country would descend into Mad Max levels of lawlessness and depredation. On the other hand, I don't think that the Federal Gov't, even with a year or two to prepare, in earnest, for nuclear war, is going to be able to make provisions to shelter, feed, clothe, and provide medical care for tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of refugees (i.e. people evacuating potential nuclear target areas or fleeing the vicinity of an actual strike). Even if the Gov't could lay in adequate provisions, once fossil fuels are in short supply (and refineries are the priority target for nuclear attacks, according to v1 & v2 canon lists), it's going to be extremely difficult to get aid to the people that need it (or vice-versa). Millions will go hungry. Hundreds of thousands of refugees will die of starvation, exposure, or communicable diseases like cholera and typhus- maybe not right away, but over the first few years after the TDM, the death toll is going to be catastrophic. This doesn't even take into account victims of nuclear strikes (read Susan Southard's, Nagasaki: Life After Nuclear War) for a thorough description of what it was like to live through a relatively small nuclear bomb attack).
Seriously, aside from farmers and "preppers", how many citizens are going to know how to cope [well] when the lights go out, the water shuts off, gas pumps run dry, and the grocery store shelves are empty? 10%? I think that's a probably a generous estimate. So, I think it's more likely conditions across the U.S.A. are going to become dire relatively quickly- not Mad Max dire, but pretty dire. I agree with SSC that people today, more reliant on digital aides than even 10 years ago, are going to be much less able to cope than folks could have back when T2K was first written. Will surviving law enforcement, whether it be military or civilian, be able to cope with the apocalypse? I think the answer is, it will largely depend on a number of factors. To name a few, Urban v. rural. Was there a nuclear strike in the region? Are/were there hostile conventional forces in the region? Is there a strong military presence in the region? How prepared and competent is local law enforcement? Were there significant criminal elements in place before the war started? So, there's no universal answer to the question, "how bad will it be?" As a GM, it's up to us to look at the above and make decisions about local conditions. It's quite a challenge, but it's a big part of the fun of T2K, IMHO.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#15
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Prompted by what Raellus said, I should point out that I didn't intend to give the idea that society would break down to complete lawlessness e.g. Mad Max or Tom Clancy's The Division. Nor give the idea that everyone would start bringing on the chaos in a few weeks because they couldn't get their morning cup of tea/coffee.
It was more to stress the idea that for a 2025 conflict, we are talking about Western societies that have a heavy reliance on electricity and petroleum fuels to keep their societies running. Once something interferes with that, most city dwellers are going to be sitting back waiting for the government to fix the problem. The government is unlikely to be able to respond to these problems as quickly as they have in the past for two reasons. 1. The way they deal with these situations has changed relative to the use of "just in time" deliveries. 2. There's a war going on. I'm inclined to think that any country that is accepting lots of refugees is going to really feel the strain from this and will have a difficult time preventing societal breakdown from happening once rationing, blackouts and late deliveries become the norm. |
#16
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Attachment 4132
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem Last edited by Legbreaker; 04-29-2021 at 04:56 AM. |
#17
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1) You never screw with the Mail Clerk, Mess Section, or Pay Clerk. 2) You treat ALL pregnant females as "emotionally disturbed persons." 3) You NEVER F**K with the coffee. |
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#19
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Last edited by Marconi; 10-30-2022 at 04:42 AM. |
#20
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As a side note, if you run a business and don't offer free coffee to your employees, they very likely secretly hate you for it. |
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#22
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Coffee for us was important, and whenever were were halted for an hour or so (sometimes less) somebody always had a brew on, but in my section there was something even more vital.
BOOZE! Every last one of us had a hip flask in their pack, each person with something different in it - bourbon, port, tequila, etc. Between us there weren't many cocktails we couldn't make! ![]() Technically we were breaking the rules, but given the platoon sergeant and company sergeant major also carried.... Even the cook could be counted on to have a little something squirrelled away.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#23
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Unlike almost all soldiers I knew, I hate coffee (though I love the smell -- go figure). But I quickly found that coffee was an important trade item -- depending upon the coffee I bought before leaving, I could get anything from cheese and crackers to a new extractor on my M16 before it was scheduled to get a new one. (My biggest problem with the M16 was extraction failure.) One time, I got two new matching units for my track from Commo for a jar of Folgers.
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War is the absence of reason. But then, life often demands unreasonable responses. - Lucian Soulban, Warhammer 40000 series, Necromunda Book 6, Fleshworks Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com Last edited by pmulcahy11b; 07-21-2018 at 10:51 AM. Reason: One little misspelling that changed the whole meaning! |
#24
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I was drinking coffee at Barksdale AFB, while we watch an ORI, the nuke laden B52's were taking off and the youngsters asked, "What do we do now?" I sipped and replied, "If this was real, we'd orbit the Earth for 10,000 years." "HUH?"
I then had to explain Nuke Warfare to the AB's while chugging Folger's. |
#25
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Watching a MITO simulating a scramble of the alert BUFFS and tankers is definitely an impressive sight!!
I hear that we now have an alert force again. About time. At least the alert pad at Barksdale was left relatively intact. https://stevenmcollins.com/usa-prepa...b-52-squadron/ |
#26
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1) How poor do you "perceive" yourself to be in comparison to your neighbors? 2) How WELL do you "know" your neighbors? If you know all your neighbors and are on a fairly equal economic basis with them, you will often see mutual support and assistance from those communities. Such communities tend to be smaller with a more "integrated" social system (everyone attends the same schools, churches, and social functions). On the other hand, if you don't associate with your neighbors regularly, or even know their names, it is easy to view them as a "resource" instead of as "people." Add to this the fact that cities usually have limited resources available (leading to competition for those resources) and you have a disaster in the making. In addition, if you view yourself as "marginalized" by the vast majority of society, a major disruption could be your chance to not only acquire "resources" that are otherwise unavailable to you but also to "punish" those you feel have kept you in poverty. I think of the people in Baltimore looting and burning the CVS Pharmacy during the protests for Freddy Gray. What exactly did CVS do to cause Freddy Gey to die? NOTHING! It was a convenient excuse to loot that CVS. This behavior is what will cause the most damage to major cities in the War. |
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#28
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I think these may have been discussed before on the forum but they fit in here well enough as a colour/background element of any post-apocalypse scenario.
Specifically I am talking about two ideas to get long-range comms back after the breakdown. The first is a concept still in use by ham radio operators so is very much a proven idea. Earth-Moon-Earth communications, basically you aim your microwave transmitter at the Moon and someone somewhere else in the world can pick it up with their microwave receiver. Quite a bit easier than trying to get a hold of working comms satellites, finding a suitable launch vehicle, fuelling said launch vehicle and then getting the satellite into orbit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%..._communication The second is a little more difficult and has a limited life span of a year or two. Difficult because it does require a rocket to deliver a package into orbit and the package itself needs some thought put into how it will deliver its contents but the concept itself is incredibly simple. Essentially, a collection of short lengths of copper wire, placed in orbit, function like a giant antenna. It was a serious consideration in the 1950s when North America and Western Europe had either ionospheric radio or undersea cable as their only means of long-range communication with each other. But their are issues with seeding near-Earth orbit with 20kg of copper wire, aside from finding a suitable rocket to get it there. https://www.wired.com/2013/08/project-west-ford/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Ford Both concepts could be attractive solutions for rapidly re-establishing communication in a world that is very dependent on satellites for long-range comms these days. Last edited by StainlessSteelCynic; 07-19-2018 at 10:09 AM. Reason: spelling correction |
#29
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Hmm, putting even MORE shrapnel into orbit sounds like a wonderful idea.
What could possibly go wrong?
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#30
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And anyway, it'll all fall back to Earth after about two years. Or so they thought... Apparently there's still clumps of copper wire floating around up there from their initial tests. To be a little fair, it was conceived of and deployed in the 1950s, before they had developed any satellites and realized the problems of tiny objects smacking into delicate machines in orbit. But still, what could possibly go wrong? ![]() ![]() |
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