RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-02-2010, 11:34 PM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Thumbs up Twilight 2013

Had our first session of 2013 and all I gotta' say is I love this system, the game is great! I don't see ANY reason sombody wouldn't like it. Its got my vote for sure!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-03-2010, 05:31 AM
leonpoi leonpoi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post
Had our first session of 2013 and all I gotta' say is I love this system, the game is great! I don't see ANY reason sombody wouldn't like it. Its got my vote for sure!!!!!!!!!!
How's the initiative system? Does it play out too slow?

I was put off because of the amount of modifiers: your stance, enemy stance, movements, range, weapon type, etc, etc. I liked the idea of all of these things being included but it just seemed too much. What's your view?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-04-2010, 06:44 AM
Mahatatain Mahatatain is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK, near Maidstone in Kent
Posts: 327
Default

Gebe - I'd be interested to know if you've encountered the same problem with the damage system in T2013 that I've observed. Doing a little bit of maths it's possible to get a situation where you keep shooting someone and he doesn't get "wounded" any further, i.e. his wound state doesn't get any worse, particularly with Veteran or Elite NPCs.

I started a discussion about it on the official forums (http://www.93gamesstudio.com/forum/v...hp?f=32&t=2428) and seemed to get inconclusive answers from the game designers where they kept stressing the other effects of combat, which, while important wasn't really addressing the issue I've observed.

I'm therefore interested whether you've had a situation like this occur as it may be that I'm worrying about nothing!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:25 PM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Default Damage issues

I have not yet came across that problem for we do not hit a combat until this Sat, but I will let you know.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2010, 03:35 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post
Had our first session of 2013 and all I gotta' say is I love this system, the game is great! I don't see ANY reason sombody wouldn't like it. Its got my vote for sure!!!!!!!!!!
Hang on. Such a strong recommendation and you haven't tried it out in combat yet?
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-04-2010, 04:11 PM
Snake Eyes's Avatar
Snake Eyes Snake Eyes is offline
[Armchair Commando]
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Walnut Creek
Posts: 203
Send a message via MSN to Snake Eyes Send a message via Yahoo to Snake Eyes
Default

Well, character generation is a rather compelling undertaking.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-04-2010, 04:45 PM
Mahatatain Mahatatain is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK, near Maidstone in Kent
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post
I have not yet came across that problem for we do not hit a combat until this Sat, but I will let you know.
I hope I'm wrong but try shooting a Veteran or Elite NPC with a pistol a lot. They'll get to a point where they're dying but won't die until they expire of their wounds after a couple of rounds of bleeding. It's quite hard to kill a Veteran or Elite NPC outright unless you're using some heavy firepower!

Anyway, if you encounter the issue (and it turns out that I'm right that it is an issue in the first place) then the link I posted had some suggestions on house rules to get round the issue.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-04-2010, 09:36 PM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Talking Issues?

Well first of all, I really appreciate everyones concerns, but, in my opinion, if you didnt shoot somebody in the head and cause major head trauma to cause instant death, you can shoot all you want in real life with a handgun and have to wait for the bleed out for someone to die. Thats just how the human body works,its called "shock". So........on the other hand, if your going up against these type of NPC's in the game ill-equiped that is YOUR bad, not the systems. The reality aspects are there for me!

So here is a little bit of advice.........next time pack more heat instead whinning about getting your a## whipped by an NPC dude! Next time try a called shot to the head. Also I am using a .454 Casull

Last edited by Gabe The Gun; 05-04-2010 at 09:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-04-2010, 10:08 PM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Default

Also, that seems more harsh than meant to be so please dont take offense, im not trying to bash anyone, just trying to get my point across gentlemen.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-04-2010, 10:35 PM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post
Also I am using a .454 Casull
Your character is using a .454 Casull handgun? Doesn't that strike you as a little... munchkin-esque? I have no idea what the tone of your game is so maybe thats normal in your group. Seems highly unlikely in your standard post-apoc Twilight setting though.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-04-2010, 10:51 PM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Default Munchin-esque....whatever that means

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan View Post
Your character is using a .454 Casull handgun? Doesn't that strike you as a little... munchkin-esque? I have no idea what the tone of your game is so maybe thats normal in your group. Seems highly unlikely in your standard post-apoc Twilight setting though.
No brother, that is just my sidearm . Since everyone is talking about handgun problems. It would be my last resort for sure. I am using a FN MAG as my primary, an M320 w/HEDP rounds as my secondary. I am not falling short as far as KILLING POWER!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-04-2010, 11:14 PM
Snake Eyes's Avatar
Snake Eyes Snake Eyes is offline
[Armchair Commando]
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Walnut Creek
Posts: 203
Send a message via MSN to Snake Eyes Send a message via Yahoo to Snake Eyes
Cool Munchkin?

Two summers ago, my girlfriend said she wanted a revolver for her birthday. I told her to do some research and we'd look into taking the handgun safety class together .

She came up with:


... a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .454 Casull with a 2.5" barrel. When I was done laughing ... well actually I still haven't stopped.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-05-2010, 12:19 AM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Default

Well it is the most POWERFULL handgun in the game. Its a beast!!!!!!

Last edited by Gabe The Gun; 05-17-2010 at 11:15 AM. Reason: profanity, insult
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-05-2010, 12:20 AM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Default

And tell your girl happy B-Day
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-05-2010, 12:21 AM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Default

I think it is a great choice, though I would like to see the .44 Automag in the game..............So limited
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-05-2010, 12:38 AM
Snake Eyes's Avatar
Snake Eyes Snake Eyes is offline
[Armchair Commando]
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Walnut Creek
Posts: 203
Send a message via MSN to Snake Eyes Send a message via Yahoo to Snake Eyes
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post

I think it is a great choice, though I would like to see the .44 Automag in the game..............So limited
I'm sure Max can fudge stats for an Automag.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:13 AM
leonpoi leonpoi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 171
Default

I've played 2013 a bit and I think it needs 2 house rules but is otherwise fine:

1. MoS are split evenly between bullets in a burst attack. This replaces the default rules whereby every bullet gets the same overall MoS. This tones burst down a tad. Any bullets that can't be allocated a MoS are grazing shots.

2. when wounded body parts are hit again but the wound is ignored because it is lower than the current wound level make a shock roll based on the current wound level. This removes the problem of firing rounds in wounded body parts for no outcome.

Let me know how the combat goes for you, plus if you're using stage 3 combat initiative timing let me know if you went insane

Last edited by leonpoi; 05-05-2010 at 05:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-05-2010, 03:08 AM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,735
Default

Perhaps I didn't explain my point very clearly in my previous post. My bad.

I'm not arguing that .454 Casull isn't a great round, it is a great round, a real man stopper. Same with .44 Magnum, .44 Automag, hell .50 AE. All great. What I was saying is that in a Twilight-type environment as a GM I'd want a pretty solid explanation from a player as to how their character was managing to pack that kind of weapon and where they are getting their ammo from. I don't know the details of your campaign Gabe so for all I know it is in a setting where those sorts of weapons and ammo are common.

Another reason I find it unusual is that you've just started the campaign. I ran a campaign of T2K for nealy 10 years (9 months game time) and the characters did end up ammassing a cache of interesting goodies. Just sounds like you have a very lenient GM. Once again, it comes down to campaign style and taste. If you and your fellow players prefer playing in a campaign where you have immediate access to hard core (and rare) firepower then good for you. Its all about enjoying the game right?
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-05-2010, 03:37 AM
General Pain's Avatar
General Pain General Pain is offline
...not exactly open casket material
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tiger City
Posts: 1,953
Send a message via MSN to General Pain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan View Post
Perhaps I didn't explain my point very clearly in my previous post. My bad.

I'm not arguing that .454 Casull isn't a great round, it is a great round, a real man stopper. Same with .44 Magnum, .44 Automag, hell .50 AE. All great. What I was saying is that in a Twilight-type environment as a GM I'd want a pretty solid explanation from a player as to how their character was managing to pack that kind of weapon and where they are getting their ammo from. I don't know the details of your campaign Gabe so for all I know it is in a setting where those sorts of weapons and ammo are common.

Another reason I find it unusual is that you've just started the campaign. I ran a campaign of T2K for nealy 10 years (9 months game time) and the characters did end up ammassing a cache of interesting goodies. Just sounds like you have a very lenient GM. Once again, it comes down to campaign style and taste. If you and your fellow players prefer playing in a campaign where you have immediate access to hard core (and rare) firepower then good for you. Its all about enjoying the game right?
I'd think allmost any kind of ammo would be plausibel......for a limited amount of time offcourse
__________________
The Big Book of War - Twilight 2000 Filedump Site
Guns don't kill people,apes with guns do.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-05-2010, 05:42 AM
pmulcahy11b's Avatar
pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
The Stat Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Pain View Post
I'd think allmost any kind of ammo would be plausibel......for a limited amount of time offcourse
That's true -- you can kill someone bare-handed if you get the right opening.
__________________
War is the absence of reason. But then, life often demands unreasonable responses. - Lucian Soulban, Warhammer 40000 series, Necromunda Book 6, Fleshworks

Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-05-2010, 06:58 AM
Mahatatain Mahatatain is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK, near Maidstone in Kent
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post
Also, that seems more harsh than meant to be so please dont take offense, im not trying to bash anyone, just trying to get my point across gentlemen.
None taken! <G>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post
Well first of all, I really appreciate everyones concerns, but, in my opinion, if you didnt shoot somebody in the head and cause major head trauma to cause instant death, you can shoot all you want in real life with a handgun and have to wait for the bleed out for someone to die. Thats just how the human body works,its called "shock". So........on the other hand, if your going up against these type of NPC's in the game ill-equiped that is YOUR bad, not the systems. The reality aspects are there for me!
The thing is (from memory) that stock NPCs (including Veterans and Elites) have one damage track that is equivalent to the chest hit location for a PC. A more experienced NPC just has more points and so you can get a situation where you're putting additional bullets into an NPC for no additional impact in game terms.

Leonpoi's second comment below appears to address the same issue but for PCs or Star NPCs who have different wound tracks for different locations. The issue is the "Recurring Injuries rule" on page 152 of the main rulebook by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leonpoi View Post
I've played 2013 a bit and I think it needs 2 house rules but is otherwise fine:

1. MoS are split evenly between bullets in a burst attack. This replaces the default rules whereby every bullet gets the same overall MoS. This tones burst down a tad. Any bullets that can't be allocated a MoS are grazing shots.

2. when wounded body parts are hit again but the wound is ignored because it is lower than the current wound level make a shock roll based on the current wound level. This removes the problem of firing rounds in wounded body parts for no outcome.

Let me know how the combat goes for you, plus if you're using stage 3 combat initiative timing let me know if you went insane
With regards to other firearms besides those in the main rulebook there are several weapons guide pdfs that you can buy quite cheaply that have a load of extra weapons in them as well as a load of officially detailed (as in by the game designers) weapons on the official forums. Well worth checking out.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:27 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun View Post
Well first of all, I really appreciate everyones concerns, but, in my opinion, if you didnt shoot somebody in the head and cause major head trauma to cause instant death, you can shoot all you want in real life with a handgun and have to wait for the bleed out for someone to die.
First off, let me thank you for introducing me to a cartridge that I'd never heard of before.

Now, to address your main point- You don't have to shoot someone in the head with a pistol to kill them instantly. If a pistol bullet hits the aorta or the heart, death is nearly instant. If both lungs collapse, death will follow pretty soon after. If the TW2013 rules don't address these very plausible possibilities, then they need a bit of a rewrite (i.e. erratta).

That said, I'd really like to take a good close look at the 2013 rules. I've heard lots of good things about them. I'm just not sure if I want to pay full price for a system I may not end up using.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-05-2010, 05:00 PM
Cpl. Kalkwarf Cpl. Kalkwarf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
First off, let me thank you for introducing me to a cartridge that I'd never heard of before.

Now, to address your main point- You don't have to shoot someone in the head with a pistol to kill them instantly. If a pistol bullet hits the aorta or the heart, death is nearly instant. If both lungs collapse, death will follow pretty soon after. If the TW2013 rules don't address these very plausible possibilities, then they need a bit of a rewrite (i.e. erratta).

That said, I'd really like to take a good close look at the 2013 rules. I've heard lots of good things about them. I'm just not sure if I want to pay full price for a system I may not end up using.
Don't forget shock, its a real killer.
Also of note the .454 will also fire 45 long colt rounds. Actully a better Big Revolver would be the S&W .460 magnum, it will fire .460 magnum, .454 casul, and .45 long colt ammo. That being said, they are revolvers and even it one starts with a limited supply of ammo, they could easily be reloaded, as is in the later parts of the war allot of ammo. You could possible in a pinch, load .45 bullets in them, though those are light bullets. It would not be hard to have a bullet mold made to cast your own bullets for the pistol, you would use rifle primers anyway and powder well you could even use black powder, but that might degrade performance a bit. Revolvers are also easier to keep tract of ones brass, when you unload you just stick the empty brass in a pouch. A semi-auto or automatic throws the brass all over the place and one does not always have time to pick up your brass in some area of hostile occupation.

I would never waist the weight carry capacity for such a big honking piece of metal myself, I would rather carry extra ammo for my main weapon (usually my only weapon).
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-07-2010, 03:04 AM
Dog 6 Dog 6 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 219
Default

you guys think its worth buying TW2013 for the background, toe, obo's from it ?
__________________
"There is only one tactical principal which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
--General George S. Patton, Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-07-2010, 04:34 AM
Mahatatain Mahatatain is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK, near Maidstone in Kent
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog 6 View Post
you guys think its worth buying TW2013 for the background, toe, obo's from it ?
I think that it is worth buying TW2013 for the rules (even if you decide to make a few tweaks). With the background you'll have to read it and then decide if you find it believable/credible or not as that is really a personal decision.

I personally think that the detail in the rules justify the cost though.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-07-2010, 09:54 AM
drashal drashal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10
Default

i have a comment on the ammo situation , if this is the players backup weapon he does not use it a lot so he will go through ammo a lot slower than his main weapon so even if you are running at war + 2 years its not unbelievable for the player to have 35 to 60 rounds left for the weapon and thats if he started the war with only two boxes of ammo. at 50 rounds a box which is not unrealistic for a weapon owner to have on hand at balloon day more if the players background is a survivalist type . plus while .454 ammo is not common so are the guns that use it so in a barter situation their is more of a chance that some ammo dealer would have it. i would expect the .22 long to be one of the first ammo types to vanish of the markets long before some of the more exotics
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-07-2010, 11:38 AM
Gabe The Gun's Avatar
Gabe The Gun Gabe The Gun is offline
Gabe The Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg,California
Posts: 94
Default

The rules are very good in my opinion, I espacially like the character generation process. It is very in depth and detailed, takes longer but you feel alot more control over who and what your character is and can do.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-07-2010, 12:42 PM
kato13's Avatar
kato13 kato13 is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, Il USA
Posts: 3,647
Send a message via ICQ to kato13
Default

I really like the character creation process. I mapped it out a while back when I was considering making it into a web application. I think it could be useful as it lists the page numbers you need to go to as you move through the process. A note this includes all the optional rules and it is not as complicated as it looks.


Last edited by kato13; 05-07-2010 at 12:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Mohoender's Avatar
Mohoender Mohoender is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Near Cannes, South of France
Posts: 1,653
Default

Doesn't that remind of a thread on powerpoint being the ennemy??
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-07-2010, 01:15 PM
pmulcahy11b's Avatar
pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
The Stat Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender View Post
Doesn't that remind of a thread on powerpoint being the ennemy??
Dang! Beat me to the zinger!
__________________
War is the absence of reason. But then, life often demands unreasonable responses. - Lucian Soulban, Warhammer 40000 series, Necromunda Book 6, Fleshworks

Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
twilight 2013


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.