Campaign Style: Munchkins Vs. Realism

[headquarters]

I thought a little debate on the subject would be a good move to clarify what everybody thinks here .I have a slight sensation of things slipping in the direction of munchkin land in some respects and feel a need to thighten up a bit .

I am of course talking about the possibility players have to go over the top when arming themselves etc .

I know the GM has the last word but input is always appreciated.So spill your beans and we will compare notes .

I for one feel that " realism " in the sense that what is practical in real life is also the guidelines for what can be done in-game , is important .

By this I mean that bringing too many guns,too big guns and even bigger guns as well as being armoured solid like a human apc isnt conducive to a great gaming experience .

I guess in some instances I have allowed munchkinesque or just plain outrageous munchkinism to take place .

This is mainly due to the fact that sometimes the ritual "reading through the equipment list for the mission before you go" has been neglected .Also the element of trust between GM and players that entails no player adding too much stuff on the list effects the situation .(many times this has been done to save time and cut to the chase so to speak -but I never meant for things to get out of hand in this department )

I plan to make sure that equipment lists are checked for "errata" before every operation in the future .I also rely on the players to chip in and adhere to the standards themselves in respect to the equipment list etc .

This especially comes in as a must when PCs are on the move and movement needs to be calculated .

As the equipment list is being checked by GM and player ,the player MUST state wether or not he believes himself to be encumbered /impeded with regards to
-the weight he is carrying
-his armour
-his multitude of weapons with which he has armed.

Also remembering these movement stats troughout the session will be PLAYER RESPONSIBILITY and justice will be harsh on the forgetful .

( GM CPU can get a bit taxed sometimes and keeping all of these variables in my head at the sametime will inevitably lead to melt down ).

I am not saying that players cannot equip PC with antimaterial rifle,
EOD-style kevlar and steel plated armour ,backpack with 50 kg ammo and explosives and other weapons as well as 5-6 assorted firearms .

But I am saying that when we are bent over the map ,pencils in hand and calculating the movement etc to mark the PC in his new position ,he needs to be there himself with his pencil and pointing out that due to his gear he will only move 5 meters that phase at full tilt .I cannot help forgetting and using default movement rates sometimes.

The same applies to completion of tasks like jumping a fence or whatever - the player needs to state his or hers impediments to the GM at the same time he declares his move .

This way those who want the real world practicality can have that and those who prefer not so practical solutions can try these and see how it goes .

Give me feedback people .

[Rupert Willies]

Amen brother!

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Rupert Willies

Amen brother!

I take it Willis feels that realism is importnat and want to see the style tighter.

Anyone else wanna chime in here ?

[Rupert Willies]

They dare not, mayhaps?

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Rupert Willies

They dare not, mayhaps?

Some -sure .Other -not so much .

different players like different styles .some want as near to real life as possible and some want cartoons.and some are in the middle -in a John Woo movie maybe.

In the best Chinese Cultural revolution tradition ,I will critique myself so that I may proceed with a clean slate :

I have gotten into a few bad habits over the years that have stunted the development of the game .

Firstly I have been too soft on the damage rules.( I do rack up 2 cripples,3 dead PCs and a lot of permanent wound effects like loosing points on strength,constitution,agility,charisma etc over 5 seasons ) -so to say that is totally cartoon I disagree with .

BUT :

I am trying to amend this by using critical hits rules to its full extent ,giving complications as after effects of wounds and of course ,la piece de resistance - the bleedtime rules.

I admit that the gas explosion was poorly handled and should have been more powerful ( but I had qualms about making it more deadly than a 155 howitzer grenade -so I had the book in my corner too in a way ).It was all ad -lib anyways ,as that part of the mission was just an idea that I came up with off the top of my head .I didnt finish it thouroughly due to the fact that taking an evening or two "off" to make a mission feels like a waste when we meet up and nobody agrees on playing it anyways .Thats why I always hassel you guys with "whats the next mission guys he? ey? hæ?".If I get a choice early ,I can prepare it good .But as a mostly improvised mission I am semi pleased with my self .Should have snuffed you and Sanchez though -in hindsight -and let everyone else take a real thrashing. But spur of the moment decision to set damage at C:10 B:20 -what can I say.you were prone,had armour ,got lucky etcetc .

Anyways -back to bleedtime rules: these will ensure that serious wounds will have to be taken seriously (!) and that planning ahead and "acting real life practical" in stead of "in game tactical" (yeah!) will be paramount .The check to stop the bleeding is a real risk and you only get the few chances to do so .
I predict -and sincerily hope- that PCs will take the pen and paper dirt nap
in sessions to come due to these rules.Some might postpone it by adding even more gear and expending valuable PCs -but that will not save them.Only the application of theoretical tactical skills and good acting /role playing can have a chance at this.

Critical hits are really dangerous in this way and any PC critically wounded I should lead to a start of biting of the nails and the mumbling of prayers .

As for the PLAYER munchkin behaviour I will correct the common understanding of what is possible in our next session by DEMANDING that players themselves practically calculate their own movement factor and that the equipment lists are thouroughly discussed before kick off .Failure to adhere or "forgetfulness" will be punished by summarily adding more danger to the PCs predicament the moment the error is discovered.

Yes -that is a pen and paper PC death threath..

I dont think players have actually cheated -ahem- and brought more stuff than their weight allowance dictates .But as they say in hurricane season : "Its not THAT the wind blows that is the crucial factor to standing it ,its WHAT the wind blows.If it smacks you with a Volvo its not going to matter that you managed to stay upright in the gusts" (far out -I know)

Meaning that even if weight allowance is kept , the shape and mass of objects must be discussed to see if they can actually be brought along in stated quantities .5 x 20mm Mechem rifles might be with in in weight /load capacity .It is not possible to carry in a combat gear configuration however.Also the extent of gear brought and the type of armour will be discussed and considered for giving penalties to agility checks and certain moves .(Like drawing a weapon/item when you have too many items will take longer time )

In conclusion a stricter,harsher and more viscious fun.

[theDevil]

...there is still a chance, as I do remember something about toxic airborne bio hazard danger, and as far as i know, i where the only one to inject the atropin, into myself and willis as our hasmats where burned to sunder, leaking like a hooker in heat...

i can sure go for more realism, but then i can see the missions going far to slow, so we miss a lot of blood an gore, sorry and sure enough, i love the crazy action shìte.
But i put alot of though of what i put down at my character sheets back-pack sheet (which where amazing, by the way), and only, if any, slightly over weight, but if so i think that was solved as soon as threw my first grenade, or used up my first mag of ammo.

The challenge of not having to much, is always fun. except when there is a town of zombies around you, then it is always fun to find a ammo dump....

what i try to say is something like this; if we shall have it realistic, it should be outweighed by some "fanzy" shit, like finding an ammo dump, once in a while, nothing wrong in having a hand to hand (knife to brass-knuckles) fight, but... throw us a freakin bone once in a while...

u know, like the guns in the beginning of the mission, for me (the character, and all the talk about bulk(here on the forum), to much weapon etc etc) it was uninteresting at the time(almost encumbered), later in the game, as the "spider-bots" were attacking, it would be much more like "omg, is this a "magic" gun that could kill an "armada" "spider-bots" at the same time, with tactical-energized-spike-bullet-head-of electric lightning???" (overkill explanation, i know, but that is me... ...in a nutshell.. love it,? leave it,? dont fight it.! ).

Even though a nice big suit is fun and great, but un-usefull, information from hdd on the suit or other research is also fancy and fun, but with our technology factories and level we are at now, we cant do jack shit with that.

"we slayed the "metallic-dragon" and all we got where these lousy 5400rpm hdd"

but i guess a big powerfull electric chain lightning gun, would have limited bullets that also... well i like over the top gaming,

BUT

i also like a hard rule about weight limitation. no "gonna get you sucker" to much weight, or the encumburedment of to many guns as shown in the movie "virus" with donald sutherland, and, scream queen, jamie lee curtis...

so yes thanx, as i parafrase the famous words of A.A.Milne "I`d like both..."

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I take it Willis feels that realism is importnat and want to see the style tighter.

Anyone else wanna chime in here ?

I agree as long as it doesn't lower game play ratio.....this is as you all hopefully know a game....u know...suspencion of disbelief.

[headquarters]

I am thinking about just counting and adding up the bulk stats on all weapons and gear carried and compare this to the agility score for a modifier .

then the murphy rolls will be made as a modified agility check by the player whenever making a move that is more complicate dthan running or walking on a straight road .

[Rupert Willies]

Sounds good to me; Straight forward, to the point and playable.

[Targan]

If an amputee character's prosthetic limb weighs less than the limb it replaces does the character get an allowable encumbrance bonus equal to the difference?

[Rupert Willies]

I guess it depends on the usability of the prosthetic limb, and whether it is powered or not. A self powered but heavy limb could more than weigh up for a regular limb, while a poorly made, yet light weight limb could give you a negative encumbrance modifier (able to carry less weight).

Originally Posted by Targan

If an amputee character's prosthetic limb weighs less than the limb it replaces does the character get an allowable encumbrance bonus equal to the difference?

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Rupert Willies

I guess it depends on the usability of the prosthetic limb, and whether it is powered or not. A self powered but heavy limb could more than weigh up for a regular limb, while a poorly made, yet light weight limb could give you a negative encumbrance modifier (able to carry less weight).

bear in mind that those truly fancy prosthetics are as usual as good
single malt in the Kaba / Mekka during the pilgrimage