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Old 09-13-2015, 08:20 PM
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Default Mexican Army Equipment 1995

Here is some I put together since I was wondering what the Mexican army had at the begin of twlight

Sources

SIPRI Arms Transfers Database: http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/values.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Army

And yes the Mexican Army still has US half tracks and M-520 Goers see the link below which has photos taken of them in 2003 of them. They also still M8 Greyhounds and some M74 Tank Recovery Vehicles

http://rtvmodeler.com/MEX/tierra/global.htm
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File Type: rtf Mexican Army Equipment 1995.rtf (101.8 KB, 120 views)
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:49 PM
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Mexico isn't listed specifically.... Most of their non-domestic equipment can be found in this older edition of the WWEG.

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/weg2001.pdf
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:01 AM
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Almost of the army domestic equipment was developed until later on (2000's) and the army still relay a lot of imports

An interesting possibility would be the Sedena Henschel HWK-11, which was a joint project between the Mexican defense secretary (SEDENA) and Henschel Wehrtechnik GmbH of West Germany. Originally 450 were to be produced but on 40 were actually made.

I am thinking that some of that would be factory is still around as SEDENA did an upgrade of their AMX-VCI recently. Could they start making new HWK-11 agian?

Just a though!

I also wonder how the Mexican would fair in their US invasion. I mean they have never mounted a campaign outside of Mexico and they prohibited by their constitution unless war is declared. They have also never had fought huge foreign invasion that it won. The Soviets have a lot of work to do.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:06 AM
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I looked at Concise World armies 2009 - by Ravi Rikhye and have a few updates to your list - some of this equipment would be in storage - the M5 tanks were used in Chiapas in 1999 so they would have been around in the game invasion timeline for sure

M3 light tank - 30 in service
M5 light tank - 15 in service
M8 Armored Car - 50 in service
MAC-1 Armored Car - 50 in service
M3A1 scout car - 100 in service
Mowag - 30 in service

You also have the DN-IV Caballo AOC - 40 in service

thus the only real tanks they have are the 45 M3/M5's
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Old 09-14-2015, 11:02 AM
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but again keep in mind who they fought at least initially - mostly a collection of small National Guard transportation and military police companies, SWAT teams, local militia and State Guards who probably had almost no way to stop any kind of armor
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:48 PM
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Most US forces were in Europe, Africa, Iran, Korea/Japan/china.
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Old 09-14-2015, 03:19 PM
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basically all there was as to armor still in the US was the 36th that was deployed to the north and one mech infantry division that was reforming - that and two independent armored brigades (which if I remember right were training brigades)

the new light divisions were either truck born or foot infantry - if they were lucky they probably had some M113's but thats about it

there were several MP brigades but they only had light armor at best - and considering vehicle losses in Europe they may have had everything except their Hummers taken away and sent there instead

and I think the 42nd got sent to Yugoslavia before the Mexicans crossed the border and thus they were out of the picture

and canon missed the training brigade in California- but at best they would have had Sheridan's and M113 made to look like BMP's and Soviet tanks
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Old 09-14-2015, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
basically all there was as to armor still in the US was the 36th that was deployed to the north and one mech infantry division that was reforming - that and two independent armored brigades (which if I remember right were training brigades)

the new light divisions were either truck born or foot infantry - if they were lucky they probably had some M113's but thats about it

there were several MP brigades but they only had light armor at best - and considering vehicle losses in Europe they may have had everything except their Hummers taken away and sent there instead

and I think the 42nd got sent to Yugoslavia before the Mexicans crossed the border and thus they were out of the picture

and canon missed the training brigade in California- but at best they would have had Sheridan's and M113 made to look like BMP's and Soviet tanks
You'd be amazed as to the amount of LAWS and the like are available to such units.
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:22 PM
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normally I would say yes - but considering how long the war had been going on, how much had been sold to the Chinese and how much had to have been shipped over to Europe and Iran and Korea before the TDM the question is how much anti-armor was left - and with CivGov and MilGov playing at shipping men over to Europe still how much of what was left did they take with them?

normally I would say they had more than enough LAW's and the like to give a good showing - but they werent expecting a Mexican attack - meaning those units along the border may not have been equipped to deal with armor

they were on missions to secure the border against refugees - thats more of a riot control mission - so did they go with their anti-armor equipment left behind at the depots?

consider that transport by then had broken down - given that they may have sent them without a lot of their anti-armor and anti-air weaponry - possibly even without any light armored vehicles they had as well to conserve fuel

now they eventually did get them because they stopped the Mexicans eventually - but could that explain the Mexican success - possibly

after all a bunch of troops with riot gear, light weapons and maybe at most tear gas and stunning grenades arent going to be able to stand up to an armored attack, even if its not a tank heavy one

and with air units restricted due to lack of fuel they may not have even known the Mexicans were building up to attack until it was too late (i.e. sounding the alarm when they are crossing the border into El Paso with Stuarts is way way too late)
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:57 PM
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I'm one of the folks- a minority, it appears- who is OK with the Mexican invasion/occupation scenario presented in T2K v1.0. I find that it makes a much more interesting setting for CONUS-based campaigns. Therefore, I like to find ways to make it more plausible, instead of tearing it down as impossible.

With that in mind, it's possible that the Mexican army kept its mid-'60s era Sedena-Henschel HWK-11s in storage and that they could have reopened the production lines that manufactured them.

Also, due to the continuation of the Cold War in the v1.0 timeline, it's possible that a more left-leaning Mexico could have acquired additional IFVs from China or the Soviet Union, especially if there were increased tensions between Mexico and the U.S.A. (border security, "War on Drugs", trade disputes). Even 40 Chicom Type 59 MBTs could have been a handful for the the American forces still in CONUS when the Mexican invasion occurred. If Soviet or Chicom weapons would have been too risky, diplomatically, there were Brazilian and Argentinian IFVs on the market as well.

I'm fine with a little buffing of the Mexican Armed Forces, if it makes for a more interesting campaign.
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Old 09-14-2015, 05:21 PM
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I was always dubious that the historical Mexican Army would have been in any shape to conduct offensive operations against even a modest residual force in the US. You would have had a considerable number of troops (and armor) still in the CONUS, with much of it out in the field doing relief. While many would have been state guard troops, police and civilians, there would have still been considerable numbers of National Guard troops present, combat veterans who for one reason or another had been sent home (e.g. wounded, 40th Div, etc). There were also divisions, according to cannon, fully trained but awaiting deployment (e.g., 49th Armored).

I drafted some notes based on a hypothetical buildup by Mexico. I think some such buildup would have been necessary for a successful invasion.
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Old 09-14-2015, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
I looked at Concise World armies 2009 - by Ravi Rikhye and have a few updates to your list - some of this equipment would be in storage - the M5 tanks were used in Chiapas in 1999 so they would have been around in the game invasion timeline for sure

M3 light tank - 30 in service
M5 light tank - 15 in service
M8 Armored Car - 50 in service
MAC-1 Armored Car - 50 in service
M3A1 scout car - 100 in service
Mowag - 30 in service

You also have the DN-IV Caballo AOC - 40 in service

thus the only real tanks they have are the 45 M3/M5's
None of these has the armor plate to survive light anti armor weapons like the M203 or MK19.

M203s are organic to every fire team regardless of Combat Arms, Combat Support, or Combat Service Support.

For Military Police, The MK19 is issued one per vehicle except a few units that have an M2HB in a squad. Three M1025 or M1114 HMMWV with a MK19 per squad. This or two Mk19s and one M2HB.

This is in addition to three M9s, two M4s, one M203, and in the 90s an M60, later an M2HB. One transitional unit I was in it was one M4 dropped and an M249 and an M60.

The ammunition load is 10 cans of 40mm linked HEDP.
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Old 09-14-2015, 05:45 PM
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You'd be amazed as to the amount of LAWS and the like are available to such units.
In Iraq in 03, we built a sand bagged bunk to store excess.... there was to much to carry anytime we left the wire. A claymore per truck, two (then later one) AT4, six (then 4, then 2, then 1) frag, so much smoke (HC, color), spare smoke candles for the dischargers on the M1114s.

One lucky hit and any of our trucks probably would have cooked off for an hour.
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Old 09-14-2015, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
normally I would say yes - but considering how long the war had been going on, how much had been sold to the Chinese and how much had to have been shipped over to Europe and Iran and Korea before the TDM the question is how much anti-armor was left - and with CivGov and MilGov playing at shipping men over to Europe still how much of what was left did they take with them?

normally I would say they had more than enough LAW's and the like to give a good showing - but they werent expecting a Mexican attack - meaning those units along the border may not have been equipped to deal with armor

they were on missions to secure the border against refugees - thats more of a riot control mission - so did they go with their anti-armor equipment left behind at the depots?

consider that transport by then had broken down - given that they may have sent them without a lot of their anti-armor and anti-air weaponry - possibly even without any light armored vehicles they had as well to conserve fuel

now they eventually did get them because they stopped the Mexicans eventually - but could that explain the Mexican success - possibly

after all a bunch of troops with riot gear, light weapons and maybe at most tear gas and stunning grenades arent going to be able to stand up to an armored attack, even if its not a tank heavy one

and with air units restricted due to lack of fuel they may not have even known the Mexicans were building up to attack until it was too late (i.e. sounding the alarm when they are crossing the border into El Paso with Stuarts is way way too late)
When you deploy you deploy with everything. Every long deployment I have been on the barracks are cleaned out, the troops personal items are picked up by movers, and the buildings turned over to Garrison for issue to another unit.

Your connexes are shipped by truck or rail, ship if necessary. Everything goes because your unit has no buildings or motor pool to call home.

Any rear detachment is working out of temporary offices in your parent battalion or brigade.

Everything goes, every scrap of kit because mission change happens or your shuffled to another larger parent unit.

I have three brigade combat patches for one deployment being shuffled around theater.

There is one caveat.......... All MP units are not equal..... There is three distinct MP company types and then detachments.

Division MP, Corps MP, EPW MP (also rail guards and escort guards) , and then detachments like dog handlers.

There is wide variance in MTOE for these types and equipment not normally on MTOE for that type. Example, 82nd MP is the Division MP company for the 82nd ABN Division... They unlike most MP companies have the FIM92A stinger on their MTOE because the Division Commander requires it.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
I'm one of the folks- a minority, it appears- who is OK with the Mexican invasion/occupation scenario presented in T2K v1.0. I find that it makes a much more interesting setting for CONUS-based campaigns. Therefore, I like to find ways to make it more plausible, instead of tearing it down as impossible.
I'm with Raellus on this. We're presented with the game which comes with certain "facts" about the world. Work with that information, not against it.

Change the world too much and you're no longer playing Twilight:2000, but something that only uses the game mechanics - may as well go play starwars or robotech instead.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:51 PM
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I'm with Raellus on this. We're presented with the game which comes with certain "facts" about the world. Work with that information, not against it.

Change the world too much and you're no longer playing Twilight:2000, but something that only uses the game mechanics - may as well go play starwars or robotech instead.
Exactly, it is what it is, because that is the story the author wanted .

As much as it does not make sense and remains completely implausible.... That is the game story.
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Old 09-14-2015, 08:24 PM
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Also, due to the continuation of the Cold War in the v1.0 timeline, it's possible that a more left-leaning Mexico could have acquired additional IFVs from China or the Soviet Union, especially if there were increased tensions between Mexico and the U.S.A. (border security, "War on Drugs", trade disputes). Even 40 Chicom Type 59 MBTs could have been a handful for the the American forces still in CONUS when the Mexican invasion occurred. If Soviet or Chicom weapons would have been too risky, diplomatically, there were Brazilian and Argentinian IFVs on the market as well.

I'm fine with a little buffing of the Mexican Armed Forces, if it makes for a more interesting campaign.
My position also.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:01 PM
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I think what it may come down to again was just how much transport did the units still in the U.S. have? By the time of the Mexican invasion the U.S. was already running low on gasoline and the transport network had taken a huge hit. So while maybe in a normal situation they would be flush with anti armor weapons and ammo here the units at the border showed up not that well equipped at all - maybe just men and small arms and a few support weapons but without much of the anti armor and other heavy support weapons they normally would have. Again the huge drain of equipment to Europe and Asia to keep the units there somewhat in the fight after the massive losses of 1997 could be the culprit. "Sarge why only one grenade a piece?" "Why are you gonna need grenades private, it's not like we are gonna fight a war against Mexico?" says the sergeant, not knowing the next morning that he would be fighting for his life against enemy armor crossing the Rio Grande.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:05 PM
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And considering the Chinese are fighting for their lives against the Russians I doubt there will be Chinese MBT's crossing the Rio Grande. If the Mexicans do go armor shopping most likely they would be looking at either old French armor or possibly trading oil for MBT's to someone like Cuba or Israel

According to canon their AFV's are almost all ERC-90's, their APC's the VAB

Looking at what they actually had then the most likely place the Mexican Army expanded was they bought more ERC-90's to add to the 120 they already had to produce the AFV's you see that are left by 2001, supplemented by what is left of the M3/M5 tanks (which may have stayed in Mexico and make up the AFV's that are seen in their forces that are still there)

As for APC's using the AMX-VCI in place of the VAB basically conforms to canon - those vehicles came from the Belgian Army in 1994-1996, a sale which might have still occurred due to the age of the vehicles

And yes most of their armor didn't have the ability to stand up to anti-armor weapons that the US had - which again support the canon, which had them basically facing very lightly armed reserve and National Guard units, which may have been equipped more as riot control police and less as infantry ready to fight in a war.

Last edited by Olefin; 09-14-2015 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:48 PM
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Keep in mind too you have to add Soviet Division Cuba in there as well

Based on what was really in Cuba in real life when the Soviet Union collapsed and extrapolating how they would have been armed you could be looking at 11,000 men and some 120 tanks (with them bringing some Cuban T-62's and T54/55's with them to supplement the T-72's and T-80's in canon) and a good amount of BMP's and BTR's as well plus attack helicopters

that gives them a heck of an edge in Texas - especially if the Soviets had helicopters and the US didn't have much air power left due to fuel shortages and lack of aircraft - and the Cubans, who would have been short on gasoline of their own, might have given the Soviets most of their helicopter fleet to use themselves, giving the Soviets a big advantage over US units that might have almost no air support of their own

so that right there gives the Mexican invasion the teeth it needs to succeed at least in Texas
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Old 09-14-2015, 11:06 PM
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Now if you are looking elsewhere to build up the Mexicans

Brazil would be operating M41 Bulldogs - they had 340 of them - they did have a lot of indigenous APC's that Mexico could have bought

Argentina would have the TAM - that is a pretty good tank and they would have been producing them right around the canon time frame but I dont see them parting with more than 30-40 of them at most

Israel would have Super Shermans, Egypt older Soviet equipment, and again you have the French for sure since they had already sold so much to Mexico

Personally I think Mexico could have pulled off the invasion with the equipment they had - they caught the 49th out of position, other units spread all over the place and their main opposition at the start would have been MP units (and not combat ones most likely), National Guard units that were most likely logistics and transport companies pressed into being border guards and riot control units, and local police and militia units.

Given the state of the US by mid 1998 if they had had a large tank force the US probably couldnt have stopped them short of Kansas and Arkansas and San Francisco

And while the equipment they have isnt breakthru equipment, their army isnt that kind of army - they train to fight insurgents and rebels and riots - so most likely they didnt send their troops into battle riding those APC's they had or use tanks as breakthru units - instead they used the APC's to transport men to where they could be discharged but without exposing the APC's to direct fire (i.e. doesnt matter if the US has M203's or Mk19's if the infantry gets deployed way out of their range) and they may have used their tanks and armored cars as mobile artillery - i.e. putting the 90mm cannon on the ERC-90 to use in a support role for infantry

and considering they would have had access to men who were trained to get into and out of the country much of their offensive would have consisted of getting around US units using that knowledge, making our guys fall back to avoid being surrounded - i.e. the Spartans at Thermopylae went down because they got flanked and forced out of the pass, not becauses of the frontal Persian assaults

Last edited by Olefin; 09-15-2015 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 09-15-2015, 08:13 AM
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M3 light tank - 30 in service, M5 light tank - 15 in service
I dont think think theses are light tank but the M3 and M5 Halftrack which were give to Mexico in the 1960's
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Old 09-15-2015, 08:28 AM
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Mexico had M3 and M5 Stuarts in operation well into the 1990s' - they were used during the Chiapas rebellion - they also had several M8 75mm howitzer mortar carriages - the only Shermans they had stiill in operation were three tank retriever versions

They orginally got 25 each of the M3A1 and M5 light tanks at the same time they got the 100 M3A1 scout cars

The M8's and the remaining Stuarts fought in 1994 against the Zapatist rebels - they were there to guard against any kind of Guatemalan incursion

Last edited by Olefin; 09-15-2015 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 09-15-2015, 11:07 AM
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I also wonder how the Mexican would fair in their US invasion. I mean they have never mounted a campaign outside of Mexico and they prohibited by their constitution unless war is declared.
Clearly, it required large bribes form GDW to get the Mexican MoD to consider such an action, illegal under the Mexican constitution!



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Old 09-15-2015, 11:43 AM
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actually what still gets me is why the Mexicans didnt declare war on the Soviets - it wasnt the US that nuked Mexico's petroleum facilities after all - yes they did get nuked to deny the oil to the US - but actually bringing in the Soviets to help them after they killed who knows how many Mexicans in the nuclear strikes shows that whoever was leading Mexico would have been someone who Hitler and Stalin probably would have been queing up to shake his hand one day
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Old 09-15-2015, 11:47 AM
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We had a conversation along these lines some time ago. I’ll try to summarize what was discussed briefly (not my strong suit, as many of you know).


I think there was general agreement that the Mexican Army was not in a very good position to project power into the United States in 1998 for a variety of reasons if nothing was done to improve the state of the Mexican Army between August 1995 and November 1997. For the moment, I’ll skip over training and logistics and go to the AFV park.


I have long maintained that the PRC would have responded to the invasion by the Soviet Union by going shopping. Chinese indebtedness would have given China some leverage over Western actions, since the fall of the regime in Beijing would have unknown consequences for payment on Western loans for China. In addition to ramping up their own production, the Chinese would have bought everything that wasn’t nailed down. I believe equipment would have been transferred from the interior and every front that wasn’t fighting the Soviets with the intent of replacing that equipment with whatever junk could be acquired from anyplace else at a low cost.


This situation opens up a door for the Mexican Army to make some changes. They have an opportunity to offload some of their older fighting vehicles for cash, although not very much cash. At the same time, they would have the opportunity to sell hardware to China. I have posited that the Mexican arms industry obtains the rights to manufacture VAB, Lynxes, AMX-30, and a few other French systems under license specifically for the Chinese market. The Mexican Army thus sheds a fair few of its older systems with the intent of replacing them incrementally as orders for China roll off the assembly lines. As a result, by November 1997 the Mexican Army has more modern equipment than ever and has a more uniform TOE than ever.


The heating up of the nuclear exchange means that hardware intended for shipment to China can be absorbed by the Mexican Army. Consequently, there are enough AMX-30 available for Second, Third, and Fourth Mexican Armies each to get a package.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:22 PM
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I can see the Mexicans maybe making the AMX-13 but not the AMX-30 - you dont just jump into making tanks when previously the best you have ever been able to make is armored cars

plus while the AMX-30 is not suited to Mexico's road and rail systems, which in the 90's were in pretty bad shape, the AMX-13 or a armored car is. If they used the 90mm turret version it fits with their ARV's they already have on hand. In addition that vehicle has a ton of parts that are in the AMX-VCI of which they have over 400 of them - meaning that spare parts and logistics for the AMX-13 would be a snap

However keep in mind that a tank plant takes years to get up to speed, especially if they dont have experience building them, which they dont. They would have had to start production, tooling, etc.. years earlier - and by that I mean 1992-93 - they would be lucky if by mid-98 they had made a dozen tanks with start point of when the Soviets invaded China - its just not that easy to start building tanks from scratch and get any significant numbers made

I know - I worked for BAE for years - you don't just start building heavy tanks with no experience, no trained techs, no trained armor welders (which takes quite a while to train), let alone produce heavy armor plate you need for tanks when everyone in the world is trying to corner the market on it

Plus Mexico suddenly going on a crash program to build a ton of MBT's and deploying them on the US border would have been seen big time as a threat to the US - and their whole invasion, as scripted by GDW- works as it does because no one considers them a serious threat.

Otherwise the 49th, 197th and other units would have been on the border and kicked their butts as they came over - instead of lightly armed riot control troops

Mexico does however have experience building APC's and armored cars - and thats where the better candidate comes that supports canon and would be much faster for them to get up to speed to where they would have built a good amount by the invasion -

you said the Lynx - how about instead they get a license to build the ERC-90 Sagaies and upgrade the 120 ERC-90 Lynx's that they had to that configuration - now you have a gun that can take on MBT's and defeat them - and since they are already operating 120 of them again they have the spare parts, logistics and most important of all experience with the vehicles

the Sagaie was built to take on T-72's - meaning they would be effective against the M48's and M60's that guard units would most likely have

and as canon said the AFV's they had were almost universally the ERC-90 - so the newer version being built there ties in perfectly

And the ERC-90 being built by Mexico wouldnt be seen as the threat that MBT's are - tank generals count tanks, not armored cars or APC's -

If Mexico got MBT's like the AMX-30 then they would have never needed Soviet Division Cuba - they brought them over to get the MBT's they didnt have - otherwise why use scarce fuel, transport and logistics to bring them over when you already have MBT's in hand
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:28 PM
swaghauler swaghauler is offline
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A resurgent Socialist regime in Russia would not have received Western aid in the early through mid 90's (as it did in our real history). This would have led to Russia seeking monetary aid "elsewhere" in the world. Two immediate options would have been sanctioned Iran and Iraq. Russia could have traded Arms (and nuclear development assistance) for oil; Deteriorating its relationship with the West even more. Another area where Russia could have gained actual "capital" in US dollars would have been through the South American Drug Cartels. They have always had a "working agreement" with the Russian Mafia; Imagine how far they could extend their power if they bought Russian tanks, helos, and planes. You could go so far as to assert that the Cartels toppled the US friendly Mexican government and installed a "puppet regime" in response to joint US/Mexican operations against them. They have huge levels of funding and the Russians were more than willing to provide the new regime with the hardware and "training assistance" needed to keep them in power (at the appropriate cost, of course). This would also help explain the invasion of US soil. The Cartels were just securing their "drug trafficking routes" into the US.

Last edited by swaghauler; 09-15-2015 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 09-15-2015, 01:33 PM
mpipes mpipes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post

However keep in mind that a tank plant takes years to get up to speed, especially if they dont have experience building them, which they dont. They would have had to start production, tooling, etc.. years earlier - and by that I mean 1992-93 - they would be lucky if by mid-98 they had made a dozen tanks with start point of when the Soviets invaded China - its just not that easy to start building tanks from scratch and get any significant numbers made


Plus Mexico suddenly going on a crash program to build a ton of MBT's and deploying them on the US border would have been seen big time as a threat to the US - and their whole invasion, as scripted by GDW- works as it does because no one considers them a serious threat.
That's why I decided on a military build-up starting in 1982, with a production rate for AMX-40s only reaching 52 in 1995 (and yes some went to China). As far as evaluating threats.....anyone hear of ISIS/ISIL....you know, the JV team of wannabe Islamic baddies..... Plus, all our intelligence attention and assets would have been concentrated on the Soviets, and Washington is notorious for concentrating on only one threat at a time and missing developing new ones....look at the sudden surprise that the Russians are moving into Syria...then there is the Kuwait invasion...Benghazi.... etc.

Thus, I don't view the ignoring of the Mexican threat as particular surprising or even a relative ignorance of just how much military competence Mexico had gained by the invasion. After all, a LOT of intelligence and analysis ability/ capacity of the US disappeared on TDM. The war in Europe would have absorbed most of the intelligence assets remaining, and anyone trying to advance the idea of Mexico invading would have found their concerns dismissed in the face of "real threats" confronting CIVGOV and MILGOV. Just as with the Pearl Harbor attack, or Hitler's initial invasions, no one would be able to really grasp that a "second rate" military would undertake such a monumental task.

Last edited by mpipes; 09-15-2015 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 09-15-2015, 03:29 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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and I agree that if you make the POD (point of departure) for the Mexican Army buildup earlier then it becomes a lot more possible

Also keep in mind having Mexico trying to suddenly build up in 1996 and 1997 and into the invasion in 98 means them having to face how they are doing so when the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans are infested with Russian commerce raiders, long range bombers and subs - and that they take a major nuking in 1997 when the refineries get hit

so trying to buy and transport materials, let alone vehicles and arms, gets very dangerous in the face of Soviet anti-shipping efforts - and the USN has their hands full protecting war shipping - they arent going to help Mexico get stuff from France or Argentina or Brazil

also once the Soviet-China war starts all bets are off - yes sure the Chinese could buy stuff from Mexico - but why does this suddenly mean they have money to buy stuff from other people? Those other people are also selling to China as well - and the UK and the US and the Russians and anyone else involved in the war - and Mexico is not in a position to win a bidding war

plus people keep thinking they need MBT's or the invasion fails

to which I say balderdash - not with the opposition they faced - they are facing an emasculated US military, with very little fuel, with much of the country completely screwed up, the road and rail network smashed in many places and almost all their heavy armor and anti-tank weapons deployed overseas

frankly if Mexico had a bunch of MBT's they would have taken the whole Southwest and CA and Colorado, etc.. - there would have been nothing to stop them - having what they did have makes the invasion and stopping of it where it happened totally plausible
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