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Default US Navy Ships of the Twilight War

shrike6 02-20-2004, 04:46 PM I'm trying to hobble together a list of the US Navy ships mentioned canonwise. Here's the list I have so far:


DD 981 John Hancock -- Going Home

LPD 13 Nashville -- RDF Sourcebook

LHA 3 Belleau Wood

FFG 11 Clark

FFG 25 Boone

FFG 28 Copeland

CA 139 Salem

CG 48 Yorktown

CGN 38 Virginia (beached) -- Satellite Down

DDG 31 Decatur (Sunk)

SSN 705 City of Corpus Christi -- Last Submarine

SSN 750 Newport News (Sunk?)

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Matt Wiser 02-20-2004, 07:09 PM There were three Forrest-Sherman DDs mentioned in a Challenge article on the New Jersey-Delaware area: Manley and Bigelow were the two that I remember without digging my issues out of the box they're in. Two were based at Norfolk, while Bigelow was based at Cape May.


On the old forum, I had four carrier battle groups that had survived, but two rarely sailed due to fuel shortages, and two were nuclear carriers, but the escorts rarely had the fuel to sail.

I also mentioned the Battleships and Salem's sister ship Des Moines. If you like, I can repost this.

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shrike6 02-20-2004, 09:13 PM Matt, I wouldn't mind seeing what you have, go ahead and repost when you have the chance. Thanks for mentioning the Challenge article I didn't know about that one.

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Matt Wiser 02-21-2004, 05:46 PM OK Shrike, Here goes:


PACFLT: HQ Hilo, HI (relocated from Pearl Harbor)

US Third Fleet: HQ Hilo, HI


Home Port: NAS Alameda, CA

USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) with CVW-15 (tailcode NL)

VF-51: F-14D

VF-111: F-14D

VFA-27: F/A-18C

VFA-97: F/A-18C

VA-52: A-6F

VS-37: S-3B

VAQ-134: EA-6B

VAW-114: E-2C

VQ-5 det 5: ES-3B

HS-4: SH-60F/HH-60H

USS Antietam (CG-54) w/HSL-45 det 3 (SH-60B)

USS Chosin (CG-65) w/HSL-41 det 7 (SH-60B)

USS California (CGN-36)

USS Stethem (DDG-63)

USS Paul F. Foster (DD-964) w/ HSL-41 det 2 (SH-60B)

USS Estocin (FFG-15) w/HSL-84 det 2 (SH-2F)

USS Halyburton (FFG-40) w/ HSL-45 det 5 (SH-60B)


US 7th Fleet: HQ Naval Station Guam

USS Constellation (CV-64)w/ CVW-2 (tailcode NE)

VF-1: F-14D

VF-2: F-14D

VFA-137: F/A-18C

VFA-151: F/A-18C

VA-145: A-6F

VA-155: A-6F

VS-38: S-3B

VAQ-131: EA-6B

VAW-116: E-2C

VQ-5 det 6: ES-3B

HS-14: SH-60F/HH-60H

USS Anzio (CG-68) w/ HSL-45 det 2 (SH-60B)

USS Port Royal (CG-73) w/ HSL-49 det 1 (SH-60B)

USS Mississippi (CGN-40)

USS Ramage (DDG-61)

USS Carney (DDG-64)

USS Fletcher (DD-992) w/ HSL-49 det 8 (SH-60B)

USS Gary (FFG-51) w/HSL-45 det 6 (SH-60B)


Shore-based at NAS Lemoore, CA:

VF-124: F-14A/B/D

VFA-125: F/A-18A/B/C/D

VS-41: S-3B

HCS-5: HH-60H

VFC-13: A-4F/M

VP-65: P-3C

VP-91: P-3C

HS-10: SH-60F

HSL-41: SH-60B

HC-1: CH-53E

VP-31: P-3C


Shore-based NAS Alameda, CA

HM-15: MH-53E

CVW-15 is shore-based at Alameda when not embarked.


Shore-based at Anderson AFB, Guam

VRC-50: C-2A, US-3A, C-130F

VQ-1: EP-3E

VQ-5: ES-3B, S-3A

HC-5; HH-46A

CVW-2 is shore-based at Anderson when not embarked.

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Matt Wiser 02-21-2004, 06:21 PM LANTFLT: HQ Little Creek Amphibious Base, VA


US Second Fleet: Little Creek


USS George Washington (CVN-73) w/CVW-17 (tailcode AA)

VF-74: F-14B

VF-103: F-14B

VFA-81: F/A-18C

VFA-83: F/A-18C

VA-34: A-6F/KA-6D

VAQ-132: EA-6B

VAW-125: E-2C

VS-30: S-3B

HS-9: SH-60F/HH-60H

VQ-6 det 2: ES-3B

USS Normandy (CG-60)w/ HSL-44 det 1 (SH-60B)

USS South Carolina (CGN-37)

USS Mitscher (DDG-57)

USS Briscoe (DD-977) w/ HSL-46 det 7 (SH-60B

USS Elrod (FFG-55) w/ HSL-42 det 6 (SH-60B)


US Naval Forces Europe: Portsmouth, England

USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) w/CVW-8 (tailcode AJ)

VF-41: F-14D

VF-84: F-14D

VFA-15: F/A-18C

VFA-87: F/A-18C

VA-65: A-6E

VA-36: A-6E

VS-24: S-3B

VAQ-141: EA-6B

VAW-124: E-2C

HS-3: SH-60F/HH-60H

VQ-6 det 4: ES-3B

USS Yorktown (CG-48)w/ HSL-42 det 4(SH-60B)

USS Hue City (CG-66)w/HSL-44 det 5 (SH-60B)

USS Arkansas (CGN-41)

USS Cole (DDG-67)

USS Scott (DDG-995)w/HSL-36 det 2 (SH-2F)

USS Hayler (DD-997)w/ HSL-44 det 6 (SH-60B)

USS McIrney (FFG-8)w/ HSL-42 det 7 (SH-60B

USS Simpson (FFG-56)w/ HSL-46 det 1 (SH-60B)


Shore-based at NAS Oceana, VA:

VF-101: F-14A/B/D

VFA-106: F/A-18A/B/C/D

VA-42: A-6E/F, KA-6D

VAW-120: E-2C, C-2A

HSL-40: SH-60B)

VP-30: P-3C

VP-45: P-3C

CVW-17 is shore-based at NAS Oceana when not embarked


CVW-8 is shore-based at RNAS Yevoliton, England when not embarked.

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Matt Wiser 02-21-2004, 06:35 PM USS Iowa (BB-61) Active Atlantic: Damage to #2 turret repaired 1992 after accidental explosion in 1989. Damaged by Type-65 torpedo fired from Soviet Akula-class SSN 8/24/97 and beached near Bremerhaven, FRG. Hulk stripped and destroyed as part of Operation OMEGA.


USS New Jersey (BB-62) Active Atlantic: Sunk by nuclear-tipped SS-N-19 SSMs fired from Oscar-class SSGN 9/8/97 off of Bergen, Norway.


USS Missouri (BB-63) Active Pacific: Active off Korea and in containment of SOVPACFLT 1996-97. In port at Chinhae, ROK due to lack of fuel.


USS Wisconsin (BB-64) Active Pacific: Active off Korea and Aleutians. Destroyed Soviet reinforcement convoy headed for Alaska 6/18/97. Damaged by conventional torpedo (one hit) in bow from Victor-II SSN 11/22/97 and headed for Pearl Harbor, HI for repairs. Diverted to Hilo after nuclear strike on Honolulu. In port Hilo for lack of fuel, but still seaworthy.


And the two Des Moines-class CAs-Salem is in RDF Sourcebook.


USS Des Moines (CA-134) Active Pacific: Involved in Korean Campaign since 5/1/97. In port Chinhae, ROK due to lack of fuel.

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Matt Wiser 02-21-2004, 06:44 PM OOPS-had Yorktown in LANTFLT when she's in RDF Sourcebook, my mistake. RDF Sourcebook has her hull number wrong-it's CG-48. In place of Yorktown with the Theodore Roosevelt CVBG substitute USS Thomas S. Gates (CG-51). The HSL det is still the same.

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Matt Wiser 02-21-2004, 06:54 PM Shrike: Belleau Wood's hull number is LHA-3.

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shrike6 02-21-2004, 11:48 PM You're right Matt, it is LHA 3. I went ahead and fixed it up above.


Just from taking a quick glance, it looks like the ships you've got listed doesn't overlap with the ships I was going to use in a project I'm working on, definitely cool. Thanks for reposting your Naval orbat.


Brian

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Matt Wiser 02-22-2004, 01:14 AM The folks who put RDF Sourcebook made a typo-Yorktown's hull Number is CG-48, not CG-45. That number was for an unbuilt Virginia-class CGN.


Here are several amphibs and other warships:


US Third Fleet: Hilo, HI.


USS Boxer (LHD-6) VMA-322 with AV-8B embarked. Ship was en route to Persian Gulf when nuclear exchange hit CONUS. In Port at Hilo, HI. Occasionally sails in Hawaiian waters supporting PACCOM's reconstruction efforts.

USS Forrest Sherman (DD-931) reactivated Jan 97. Assigned Pacific and based at Pearl Harbor. At sea when Honolulu nuked and now based at Hilo. She escorts Boxer on her infrequent cruises. Only other ship active at Hilo on a routine basis is the Coast Guard Cutter USCG Chase (WHEC-718).

A number of interisland civilian ships have been pressed into Navy service to support Hawaiian ops and reconstruction.


US Seventh Fleet: Divided between Guam and Chinhae, ROK.


USS Semmes (DDG-18): Chinhae, ROK. One of only two 7th FLT ships in Korea active on a regular basis. Frequent Patrols in Yellow Sea supporting SEAL operations in North Korea and in China. Other active ship in Korea is USS Vincennes (CG-49) with HSL-47 det 1 (SH-60B)


Guam: USS Essex (LHD-2) at NS Guam. She "shows the flag" in the Marianas: VMA-124 with AV-8B embarked for but never arrived in Korea, She had also embarked Marine replacements for Korea, but put into Guam after nuclear exchange reached CONUS.

Marines formed into the 41st MEU (Provisional). Her escort is USS Turner Joy (DD-951); reactivated Jan 97 and assigned Pacific. Escorted Essex on her transPac and remains based at Guam. Provides fire support for Marines and Army's 1-294 Infantry Battalion (GU NG). Additional Marines that never made it to Korea are on Saipan and Tinian organized into the 42nd MEU (Prov) on Saipan and 43rd MEU (Prov) on Tinian. Several interisland ships pressed into Navy service to support Marines.

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shrike6 02-22-2004, 06:59 PM corrected the Yorktown as well. Is this all of it Matt?

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Matt Wiser 02-23-2004, 12:42 AM That's all for the surface ships that are active. There are other surface ships (at Alameda, Bremerton in Washington, and Little Creek, as well as in England, Guam, and Korea, but are not very active. The ships listed sail at least once a month to six weeks. The nuclear cruisers of course are more active-and all had refuelings in the early '90s so they won't have to worry about their reactor cores running out. The Constellation carrier group has enough fuel to sail for home, but as long as 8th Army is in Korea, they stay in Guam. Even if sailing for just a day or so to keep the engines and bearings in good shape, and to keep crews from getting rusty, they are still active.


Give me a couple of days and I'll post what I had on subs: I found it hard to believe that there was only one SSN (City of Corpus Christi) left, and no boomers (missile boats). I had a few SSNs still active in LANTFLT and PACFLT, and missile boats as well, although what they'd target their missiles on is a question in 2000. Frank Frey had a Seawolf-class SSN attached to 5th FLT in Bahrain in a post on the old forum, and he had a USN force based out of Mombasa as part of the Lions of Twilight, but gave no details on composition, strength, etc.


PACFLT has four SSBNs and LANTFLT has three left. SSNs are more numerous in PACFLT: six. One based at Guam, four at Hilo, one at Bangor, WA (the Trident Sub Base) LANTFLT has only two SSNs (City of Corpus Christi is one). The Bangor SSN is USS Parche (SSN-683), the "special projects" boat. Her missions were classified before the war, and are still classified, with operations assigned her by the JCS at Colorado Springs.

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shrike6 02-23-2004, 08:31 AM Originally posted by Matt Wiser



Give me a couple of days and I'll post what I had on subs: I found it hard to believe that there was only one SSN (City of Corpus Christi) left, and no boomers (missile boats).


Personally, I've always looked at the Corpus Christi as the Battlestar Galactica, just because she's the only one known to survive doesn't mean there aren't a few Pegasus's lurking in other parts of the world.

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dawg180 02-23-2004, 10:28 AM I always thought there would be a heck of a lot more SSN's and SSBN's around- after all, they are the hardest to find. Surface vessels are easy to locate and pretty much have nowhere to hide when the nukes come. A good sub captain can be a sneaky bastard and keep from being found- he has a third dimension (to a degree) to use. Not to mention all US subs are nuclear powered and can stay submerged for 90 days (longer if they can stock more provisions for the crew)

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Matt Wiser 02-24-2004, 02:03 AM Here's the subs in both PACFLT and LANTFLT:


PACFLT


NS Guam:


USS Columbus (SSN-762). No shortage of Mk-48 torpedoes, but Harpoon SSMs and Tomahawks are in limited supply. Frequent patrols to China, North Korean, and Soviet Far East waters, with occasional patrols to SE Asia.


Hilo, HI:


USS La Jolla (SSN-701)

USS Houston (SSN-713)

USS Helena (SSN-725)

USS Topeka (SSN-754)


Torpedoes are still reasonably availiable; but Harpoons and Tomahawks are in short supply. Patrols to Alaska, Soviet Far East, China, and adjacent waters.


SubBase Bangor, WA:


USS Parche has already been mentioned. Milgov is still very secretive regarding her missions. A platoon from SEAL Team 1 is assigned to the boat.

The boomers belong to Submarine Squadron 17.


USS Florida (SSBN-728)

USS Alabama (SSBN-731)

USS Alaska (SSBN-732)

USS Nevada (SSBN-733)


All four boats executed SIOP when ordered on Thanksgiving Day, 1997. None expended their whole load of missiles; Nevada only expended two, as an example. Missile tubes were reloaded and the boats continue patrols, with Florida and Alaska launching in 1998 (four and two respectively), and Nevada launching in 1999 (two). Torpedoes are still availiable at Bangor.


LANTFLT: All boats are based at Little Creek, VA.


USS City of Corpus Christi (SSN-705)

USS Tuscon (SSN-770)


Both boats have a shortage of torpedoes and Harpoon/Tomahawk, and 705 is used as a "special missions" boat. Tuscon conducts patrols in Atlantic waters, from South Africa and Brazil to the Barents Sea. Both avoid combat unless it is unavoidable.


The boomers belong to the relocated Submarine Squadron 20, originally from King's Bay, GA.


USS West Virginia (SSBN-736)

USS Nebraska (SSBN-739)

USS Louisiana (SSBN-743)


All missile boats still carry a full missile loadout, as well as torpedoes. The boats executed SIOP launches, and several post-SIOP launches in 1998-99. Before King's Bay was abandoned, the three boats loaded replacement missiles, submarine spare parts, and maintainance personnel for both the subs and missiles.

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James1978 02-24-2004, 05:36 PM Minor nit. With the Cold War having continued, wouldn't a lot of Sturgeon class subs have still been in the fleet? In real life most of them didn't retire until after 1995 anyways. Also, a few Seawolf boats may have made it to the fleet given the continuing Cold War.


With the boomers, 7 surviving Ohios means that 10 got killed. Maybe I'm just buying into USN propaganda, but that would need some explaining. Does anyone know how long the Benjamin Franklin class was supposed to stay in service before the Cold War ended? In real life most of them didn't decomision until 1993-1995.

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Matt Wiser 02-24-2004, 05:53 PM Two reasons for seven surviving Ohios: 1) Two were at EB in Groton, CT, being refitted to carry Trident II when the nukes fell; that leaves eight. The boomers listed are active; thus: 2) Several other boomers are in port, but are inactive due to parts and personnel shortages. At both Bangor and Little Creek, other boomers are used as parts sources to keep the active boats going. Only one Ohio believed sunk by enemy action in the war. Bangor has the only dry dock that can handle an Ohio anywhere that survives intact. An expedition is planned to investigate King's Bay to determine if any equipment is still there and salvagable. More parts, personnel, etc. are at Bangor. Hence four surviving boomers. There is a floating dry dock that was moved from Pearl to Hilo before the Thanksgiving Massacre as a precaution to support PACFLT if Pearl was nuked. Columbus was rotated to Guam. When her tour is up, La Jolla will take her slot.

Frank Frey in a post on the old forum had a Seawolf active out of Bahrain (he called her USS Monitor IIRC).

********************

Matt Wiser 02-25-2004, 12:08 PM Here's another West Coast base:


NAS Whidbey Island, WA


VA-128: A-6E/F/KA-6D

VAQ-129: EA-6B

VF-124 det 1: F-14B

********************

shrike6 02-25-2004, 01:00 PM Originally posted by James1978

Minor nit. With the Cold War having continued, wouldn't a lot of Sturgeon class subs have still been in the fleet? In real life most of them didn't retire until after 1995 anyways. Also, a few Seawolf boats may have made it to the fleet given the continuing Cold War.




You do have a point, James. The last Permit class sub (USS Gato SSN 615) wasn't retired until April of 1996. Also keep in mind the USS Parche is a modified Sturgeon class sub.

********************

Matt Wiser 02-25-2004, 04:23 PM Point taken on Sturgeon and Permits-but the Seawolfs would have begun replacing both classes. Two, maybe three Seawolfs max before the nukes fall.

********************

Matt Wiser 02-25-2004, 04:31 PM How's this for a "special mission" for Parche: She takes PCs (a SEAL team, or recon marines) down to Baja for the Satellite Down mission. Or have a similar mission take place say, in the Soviet Far East or in someplace in SE Asia, with the SSN being the mode of transport.

********************

shrike6 02-26-2004, 01:49 PM Originally posted by James1978

Does anyone know how long the Benjamin Franklin class was supposed to stay in service before the Cold War ended? In real life most of them didn't decomision until 1993-1995.


Originally posted by Matt Wiser

Point taken on Sturgeon and Permits-but the Seawolfs would have begun replacing both classes. Two, maybe three Seawolfs max before the nukes fall.


I believe that (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) 30 to 35 years is the normal service life for nuclear submarines. The Permits had started being decommissioned as early as 1988 (SSN-607 USS Dace). So they probably would have started being scrapped. The Ben Franklins are in a gray area. They probably would have still had a couple of years left on them. Although my guess is that they still would have started retiring them. Also another question is would the US have built the six additional proposed OHIO class subs in this timeline?

********************

James1978 02-26-2004, 06:57 PM My guess is that that SSBNs 744- 749 would have been authorized, but based on the completion date of Louisiana (Sept 97), I'm not sure it would have mattered.


Had the Cold War not ended, some genius may have gotten the idea to turn some of the Ben Franklins into SSGNs. Two were converted to specops boats, perhaps more would have been in this world.

********************

shrike6 02-26-2004, 09:39 PM Originally posted by James1978

My guess is that that SSBNs 744- 749 would have been authorized, but based on the completion date of Louisiana (Sept 97), I'm not sure it would have mattered.




Good point on the Ohiios wasn't even paying attention to completion dates.

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Ed the Coastie 02-28-2004, 12:26 PM I don't know about Navy vessels, but I used to always keep my eye out for Coast Guard cutters mentioned in the various modules and Challenge adventures.


Naturally, being a former Coastie, I am well aware that the Coast Guard is that "small nucleus of highly-trained personnel about which the Navy gathers in time of war" -- some 98% of Coast Guard assets get transferred to Naval service. However, the largest Coast Guard cutters (not counting the 400' Polar-class icebreakers) are only 378' long and most are smaller. So it seems to me that many of them may have survived simply because they tend to be overlooked.


A handful of specific vessels not mentioned in the canon, but that have appeared in my own games:


The icebreaker USCGC Northwind (WAGB-282) had been decommissioned in 1989, only to be brought back into service and sent into the Gulf of Mexico to serve as a floating "patrol base" for a handful of 82' Point-class patrol boats. At the time of the events of "Gateway to the Spanish Main", she has moved to San Juan with her two surviving patrol boats: the Point Martin (WPB-82379) and Point Countess (WPB-82335). Also in San Juan is the USCGC Sedge (WLB-402) and the recently-recovered USCGC Citrus (WAGL-300).


The patrol boat USCGC Point Francis (WPB-82356) was visiting Avalon on Catalina Island when the November Nukes fell. She then became the core of the makeshift naval contingent of the Catalina Island Defense Force.

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Matt Wiser 02-29-2004, 12:08 AM The original plan was indeed for 24 Ohios, and I'm sure with a continuing Cold War the production of the Ohios might have been increased. EB I think could have done two a year if need be, along with their attack boat (LA and Seawolf) work. BTW the only state to never have a battleship, nuclear cruiser, or boomer named for it was Montana. Two battleships with that name were cancelled, one in 1922 (Washington Treaty), one in 1943 (lead of a class of super-Iowas with 12 16", 57,000 tons, etc.) before being laid down. An unbuilt Virginia-class CGN (CGN-42) may have been planned to be named Montana, but she was axed before being laid down, and one of the unbuilt Ohios might have carried the state name.

A Virginia-class SSN will probably carry the name (finally).

********************

Matt Wiser 03-01-2004, 03:27 AM Frank Frey in one of his posts on the 173rd Airborne in Kenya mentioned a USN/USCG JTF operating out of Mombasa against the local pirates, smugglers, and other scum in the area.

My guess as to composition:


USS Morton (DD-948) Reactivated Forrest-Sherman class DD. Reactivated Jan 97 and originally assigned Pacific. Deployed to Mombasa Jul 97 and based there since. Ship is very active.

USS Lockwood (FF-1064) Knox-class FF. Retired in 1991 but reactivated Oct 96 and assigned Pacific. Provided local ASW cover with HSL-84 det 6 (SH-2F). Another Knox-class FF, USS Bagley (FF-1069) was assigned, but bow blown off by torpedo from Victor-II SSN 7/7/97. Hulk used as a parts source for Lockwood. Her SH-2 also used as parts source, with crew reassigned to local base duties, or as advisors to Kenyan Navy.

VP-69 (USN Reserve from NAS Whidbey Island, WA) provides local aviation support with 4 flyable P-3C Orions for MP/ASW.

SEAL support is from Naval Reserve elements originally assigned to SEAL Team 2. Their main support vessel is the Cyclone-class gunboat USS Thunderbolt (PC-12), along with a number of PB Mk III and Stinger (improved PBR) patrol craft.

Mine countermeasures are handled by USS Patriot (MCM-7)


Coast Guard is represented by the cutter USCG Jarvis (WHEC-725), originally assigned from San Francisco. A USN helo det from HSL-84 (det 10) with SH-2 deployed with the ship. Helo lost in accident in 1998 over land. Four Island-class patrol boats round out the force, and do work with SEALS as necessary. No USCG aviation deployed.

********************

James1978 03-01-2004, 10:10 PM Originally posted by Matt Wiser

The original plan was indeed for 24 Ohios, and I'm sure with a continuing Cold War the production of the Ohios might have been increased. EB I think could have done two a year if need be, along with their attack boat (LA and Seawolf) work.


I went and checked the lay down and commisioning dates on the Ohios and I think your're right. The construcion times were stretched out on the last few ships. During the 80s they averaged 2-3 years from lay down to commisioning, but the last two units took 6-7 years. The most laid down in a single year was three. So EB probably could have built and commisioned 3-4 more before war broke out.


Something else occured to me. I've heard that there were plans to build more Tigonderoga CGs, but that this option was not taken once the Cold War ended. So in the T2K world, the USN may have had more Aegis CGs as well.

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Matt Wiser 03-02-2004, 02:35 AM Sorry, James, but Ships and Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet says that the Ticonderogas were meant to be 27 ships. 27 planned, funded, and built. They were meant to compliment a strike cruiser (CSGN) that would have had Aegis, be nuclear powered, have VLS, etc. Not funded or built, unfortunately. They would have been the USN's equivalent to the Soviet Kirovs had they been built.

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James1978 03-02-2004, 03:06 PM That may be, but I'd swear I heard some admiral or navy official mention that there was some interest in more but that the decsion point was soon after the cold war ended so they never asked for them. Oh well.


The CGSN was cancelled in the 1970s when the Ticonderogas were still DDGs. Norman Friedman's US Cruisers has some info on the CGSN as well. I don't recall anything about VLS.

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