Statting 4e Weapons & Vehicles

[Raellus]

I know that there are fan-created supplements for sale on DriveThruRPG, but I thought I'd try my hand at statting "missing"* weapons that I'm likely to include in a 4e [rules] campaign.

How do these look?

M231 Firing Port Weapon
Type: SMG Ammo: 5.56x45 Reliability: 3 ROF: 6 Damage: 2 Crit: 3 Blast: – Range: 4 Mag: 30 Armor: 0 Weight: 1 Price: 250

M3A1 "Grease Gun"
Type: SMG Ammo: .45 Reliability: 4 ROF: 4 Damage: 1 Crit: 3 Blast: – Range: 3 Mag: 30 Armor: 0 Weight: 1 Price: 200

I used the canonical M4A1 stats as the foundation for the M231. For the M3A1, I looked at the Players Manual's other SMGs, and the M1911A1 (the only other .45 caliber weapon in the book).

Suggestions for stat adjustments?

More to come...

*For example, the MP5 submachinegun isn't included in the PM's Weapons section, despite the fact that the Officer Archetype illustration conspicuously wields an example.

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[Raellus]

Conspicuously missing from the 4e Players Manual's Polish Military Vehicles section:

OT-64A/SKOT 2A

Type: APC Reliability: 5 Combat Speed: 4/3 W Travel Speed: 10/6 Armor (Front, Side, Rear): 4 "" Fuel Type: D Fuel Cap: 350 Fuel Cons: 6 Crew 2+10 Cargo: 300 Main Weapon: KPV (T) Secondary Weapons: RPK (C) Price: 90,000

The OT-64/SKOT 2 version has identical stats, except the Main Weapon is a 12.7 DShK or PKT machinegun (PG) and Crew is 2+18.

Roomy!

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Originally Posted by Raellus

Conspicuously missing from the 4e Players Manual's Polish Military Vehicles section:

OT-64A/SKOT 2A

Type: APC Reliability: 5 Combat Speed: 4/3 W Travel Speed: 10/6 Armor (Front, Side, Rear): 4 "" Fuel Type: D Fuel Cap: 350 Fuel Cons: 6 Crew 2+10 Cargo: 300 Main Weapon: KPV (T) Secondary Weapons: RPK (C) Price: 90,000

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Yeah, that's a good one and definitely needed for an authentic EFK style T2K campaign.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I know that there are fan-created supplements on DriveThruRPG, but I thought I'd try my hand at statting "missing"* weapons that I'm likely to include in a 4e [rules] campaign.

How do these look?

M231 Firing Port Weapon
Ammo: 5.56x45 Reliability: 3 ROF: 6 Damage: 2 Crit: 3 Blast: – Range: 4 Mag: 30 Armor: 0 Weight: 1 Price: 250

M3A1 "Grease Gun"
Ammo: .45 Reliability: 4 ROF: 4 Damage: 1 Crit: 3 Blast: – Range: 3 Mag: 30 Armor: 0 Weight: 1 Price: 200

I used the canonical M4A1 stats as the foundation for the M231. For the M3A1, I looked at the Players Manual's other SMGs, and the M1911A1 (the only other .45 caliber weapon in the book).

Suggestions for stat adjustments?

More to come...

*For example, the MP5 submachinegun isn't included in the PM's Weapons section, despite the fact that the Officer Archetype illustration conspicuously wields an example.

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Here's a video from Ian on the M231 Port-firing weapon.

https://youtu.be/FuZmAtrRsN0

Because the weapon fires from an open bolt and has no sights or sights that would have to be added (I build the front sight into a collar that just screwed on using the mount at the front of the handguard), the weapon would have a very short range. My range assumes you have the model with the wire stock off of an M3 Grease Gun. Its cyclic rate of 1200rpm would also hurt its accuracy. In V2.2 I set its stats at:

Range: 30m (25m for stockless guns)
Dam: 2 (due to the shortened barrel)
ROF: 12
RCL: 12

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Here's a video from Ian on the M231 Port-firing weapon.

https://youtu.be/FuZmAtrRsN0

Because the weapon fires from an open bolt and has no sights or sights that would have to be added (I build the front sight into a collar that just screwed on using the mount at the front of the handguard), the weapon would have a very short range. My range assumes you have the model with the wire stock off of an M3 Grease Gun. Its cyclic rate of 1200rpm would also hurt its accuracy. In V2.2 I set its stats at:

Range: 30m (25m for stockless guns)
Dam: 2 (due to the shortened barrel)
ROF: 12
RCL: 12

A couple of years back, some parts allowed enthusiasts to make semi versions of the M231.

[Raellus]

RPD
Type: LMG Ammo: 7.62x39 Reliability: 5 ROF: 5 Damage: 2 Crit: 3 Blast: – Range: 6 Mag: 100 Armor: 0 Weight: 2 Price: 600

(The RPD has identical stats to the RPK, but with a Mag of 100.)


RPG-18
Type: ATRL Ammo: 64mm Reliability: 5 ROF: 1 Damage: 6 Crit: 3 Blast: C Range: 3 Mag: 1 Armor: -1 Weight: 1 Price: 100

(The RPG-18 has nearly identical stats to the M72 LAW.)

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[Raellus]

MG3

Type: GPMG Ammo: 7.62x51 Reliability: 5 ROF: 4 Damage: 3 Crit: 4 Blast: – Range: 8 Mag: 100 Armor: 0 Weight: 3 Price: 1300

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[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Raellus

MG3

Type: GPMG Ammo: 7.62x51 Reliability: 5 ROF: 4 Damage: 3 Crit: 4 Blast: – Range: 8 Mag: 100 Armor: 0 Weight: 3 Price: 1300

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Hmm, I don't know about this one. Why would ROF be anything lower than a full 6, given that the MG3 still has a real ROF of 1,000-1,200 RPB? And, if I may add, 1,200 is closer.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Hmm, I don't know about this one. Why would ROF be anything lower than a full 6, given that the MG3 still has a real ROF of 1,000-1,200 RPB? And, if I may add, 1,200 is closer.

That's a fair point. I could see bumping it to 5. However, I think the MG3's ROF should be comparable to other contemporary GPMGs, most of which have a similar ROF IRL. 6 seems a bit high. I would imagine that, due to the relative scarcity of ammo c.2000, that most operators would adjust the ROF down to a less profligate 800-95 rounds per minute (the MG3 does have an adjustable ROF IRL).

I don't have access to my rulebook, ATM, but which small arms are rated ROF 6?

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[Heffe]

Using only American weapons, the M16A1 and M4A1 both have an ROF of 6, as does the the M249. By contrast, the M2HB, the M240, and the M60 all have an ROF of 4 (though they all have lower cyclic rates IRL too).

One thing I'd note is that the M16A2 has an ROF of only 3, despite having a higher cyclic rate than the A1. It's seemingly explained away by stint of the M16A2 having a 3-round burst mode. This means that it may not only be cyclic rates being used to determine ROF.

Then again, it seems like most weapons that have a cyclic rate of 400-650 rnds/min get an ROF of 4. Weapons with a rate of 600-750 seem to get an ROF of 5 (see the AK-74), while weapons with ROFs that are 700+ seem to have an ROF of 6.

[Raellus]

Thanks, Heffe. IIRC, all of the comparable GPMGs in the rulebook have ROF 4. I think it would be reasonable to raise the MG3's ROF to 5, based on its higher cyclic rate IRL. However, I worry that raising it to 6 would make it OP, compared to other GPMGs in the rulebook. I'm looking at this from more of a game balancing POV, I suppose.

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[Tegyrius]

The cyclic rate to ROF conversion table is on p.110 of the referee's manual. It is oddly silent on the topic of weapons with burst but no full auto modes (possibly because this is not a widespread phenomenon). Based on its values, I would agree that ROF 6 makes sense for the MG3, and I would look at the cyclic rates of the MG with printed ROF 4 to see if they need to be tweaked to align with the table.

- C.

[Heffe]

I think 5 probably works as well from a balancing perspective. Since we already know that it's not only the cyclic rate that is taken into account when determining the ROF (as per the aforementioned M16A2), then we can find other reasons why the MG3 should only be 5 instead of the full six in order to justify the balance. Maybe PCs firing the MG3 have to worry about additional heat build up on it due to the higher firing rate, and therefore are trained to fire it in shorter bursts?

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Heffe

Using only American weapons, the M16A1 and M4A1 both have an ROF of 6, as does the the M249. By contrast, the M2HB, the M240, and the M60 all have an ROF of 4 (though they all have lower cyclic rates IRL too).

One thing I'd note is that the M16A2 has an ROF of only 3, despite having a higher cyclic rate than the A1. It's seemingly explained away by stint of the M16A2 having a 3-round burst mode. This means that it may not only be cyclic rates being used to determine ROF.

Then again, it seems like most weapons that have a cyclic rate of 400-650 rnds/min get an ROF of 4. Weapons with a rate of 600-750 seem to get an ROF of 5 (see the AK-74), while weapons with ROFs that are 700+ seem to have an ROF of 6.

The M16A2 has a variant with full auto, these were purchased by law enforcement agencies and police departments. The burst version is the "R702" and the FA is the "R704" in Colt's designation system.

[Heffe]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

The M16A2 has a variant with full auto, these were purchased by law enforcement agencies and police departments. The burst version is the "R702" and the FA is the "R704" in Colt's designation system.

Thanks for the info - I was just going by what FL has in the official player manual. That does open up an interesting question though about houseruling for players ability to fire in excess of printed ROFs based on particular weapon models.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Heffe

Using only American weapons, the M16A1 and M4A1 both have an ROF of 6, as does the the M249. By contrast, the M2HB, the M240, and the M60 all have an ROF of 4 (though they all have lower cyclic rates IRL too).

One thing I'd note is that the M16A2 has an ROF of only 3, despite having a higher cyclic rate than the A1. It's seemingly explained away by stint of the M16A2 having a 3-round burst mode. This means that it may not only be cyclic rates being used to determine ROF.

Then again, it seems like most weapons that have a cyclic rate of 400-650 rnds/min get an ROF of 4. Weapons with a rate of 600-750 seem to get an ROF of 5 (see the AK-74), while weapons with ROFs that are 700+ seem to have an ROF of 6.

Your observations mirror mine and I think it would be easy to change the ROF using the following scale...

ROF of 4 = 400rpm to 600rpm
ROF of 5 = 601rpm to 800rpm
ROF of 6 = 801rpm to 1300rpm
ROF of 7 = 1300rpm to 3000rpm (example GAU 19)
ROF of 8 = 3001rpm to 6000rpm (example M134)
ROF of 9 = 60001rpm to 10,000rpm (example M214)
ROF of 10 = 10,000rpm+ (example Metalstorm)

This would allow the balancing of the machineguns to real-world specs. For example...

MG3 (1280rpm) = ROF 6
MAG 58 (750-800rpm)= ROF 5 or 6 (5 being more common)
M240 (700-750rpm) = ROF 5
VZ 59 (700rpm) = ROF 5
Ultimax (600rpm) = ROF 4
M60 (550rpm) = ROF 4
PK/PKM (650-700rpm) = ROF 5
RPK (600rpm) = ROF 4
RPD (650-750rpm) = ROF 4 or 5 (5 being more common)
M1919 (500rpm in non-1919A2) = ROF 4
M2HB (450rpm) = ROF 4
Bren (500rpm) = ROF 4
LSW (750rpm) = ROF 5
AA-52 (700rpm) = ROF 5
HK-21 (900rpm) = ROF 6
KPV (600rpm) = ROF 4

The rates seem to balance out among the guns.

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Thanks, Heffe. IIRC, all of the comparable GPMGs in the rulebook have ROF 4. I think it would be reasonable to raise the MG3's ROF to 5, based on its higher cyclic rate IRL. However, I worry that raising it to 6 would make it OP, compared to other GPMGs in the rulebook. I'm looking at this from more of a game balancing POV, I suppose.

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One could always hold it's cyclic rate against it. First, those bullets are actually very close together. I sometimes released a short burst of 5-6 bullets, but found only 3 or 4 holes to cover up on the paper target. It took me some while to figure out that 3-4 very closely grouped holes could actually mean more bullets had hit the target with 2 bullets hitting the same spot. If you're burst is short enough, you might not get the chance to hit multiple targets with an MG3.

Second, firing longer bursts is a problem and 4E doesn't talk about the particular issue of the MG3 for obvious reasons. After 150 shots fired, you absolutely need to change the barrel. Shooting more than that in a short time, will overheat the barrel and can damage it. And no, you don't want to wait until the barrel changes color from bluish black to blue to orange. Those asbestos gloves won't protect you from everything!

Changing the barrel or keeping an eye out for its temperature will reduce the effective ROF of a weapon though. So, I could live with ROF 5 or even 4 maybe.

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Heffe

Maybe PCs firing the MG3 have to worry about additional heat build up on it due to the higher firing rate, and therefore are trained to fire it in shorter bursts?

We trained to do exactly that, 3-6 shots is no problem. With a bit of training, you can even pull of "single shot bursts", but you have to yank the trigger in a certain way to make it just fire once, it reduces accuracy somewhat. All in all, it's not practical for combat and more of a "range trick shot" (and a poor one at that).

But effectively firing only 1 Ammo Die can be done with a MG3, no problem.

[Tegyrius]

The 4-person crew is composed of commander, driver, mechanic, and rigger. The latter two have no combat roles, effectively being passengers, but each position has its own roof hatch, so they can stand up to fire small arms from partial cover. I’ve been unable to substantiate GDW’s claim that the cabin includes four passenger seats for the crew of a disabled AFV under tow.

Speeds given are for normal movement. The vehicle can tow up to 45 tons at half speed. Two M88A1s in tandem are required to safely tow a vehicle above that weight, such as an M1 Abrams-series MBT.

Beyond the numbers, the M88A1 has four interesting pieces of equipment worth noting for game purposes.

Winch: Front-mounted, 60-meter cable, 41-ton capacity. Treat the winch as a component in the penetrating/cargo hit location with Reliability 5.

Crane: A-frame boom, stowed on top of the vehicle but forward-facing when elevated for work. Can reach up to 2.5 meters in front of the vehicle, with a maximum lift of 7 meters. It’s intended for lighter vehicle recovery (think truck or APC as opposed to MBT) or changing major components (like engines), but can be used for other construction tasks in a pinch. 60-meter cable, 23-ton capacity (drops to 5 tons if the dozer blade is not in use to stabilize the vehicle). Treat the crane as a component in the non-penetrating/external stores hit location with Reliability 4.

Dozer blade: Front-mounted, full width of the hull. Primary designed function is to stabilize the vehicle when winching but can also be used for light earthmoving, including carving out hull-down fighting positions for vehicles. Treat the blade as a component in the non-penetrating/external stores hit location with Reliability 5.

Auxiliary power unit (APU): Can provide limited electrical power without use of the main engine. This enables battery charging (both for the vehicle’s own batteries or other devices), as well as use of the hydraulics that drive the three items described above. Consider this a 5-kilowatt generator (“large” for fourth edition purposes) that consumes 15 liters of fuel per shift (doubled for alcohol, of course). For damage purposes, treat the APU as a component in the penetrating/cargo hit location with Reliability 3.

At the referee’s discretion, appropriate use of appropriate equipment may provide bonuses or reduce the construction time for base facilities. I’d say a fully-functional M88/M88A1 reduces the time for building defensive works from a day per hex to a shift per hex. Most of the other base facilities in the 4e Player’s Manual won’t benefit as much from earthmoving and winching capabilities, but I’d still call it a +1 bonus for anything requiring heavy construction work.

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Notes on the conversion are on my gaming blog at https://libellus.de-fenestra.com/.

- C.

[Raellus]

Given is proven ubiquity and amazing adaptability IRL (see https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=6101&page=3 for the many MT-LB mods appearing in the current Ukraine war.), an MT-LB stat block is an absolute must for T2k.

Vehicle: MT-LB Type: APC Rel: 5 Combat Speed: 3/2 Travel Speed: 6/4 Front Armor: 3 Side Armor: 2 Rear Armor: 2 Fuel Type: D Fuel Cap: 400 Fuel Cons: 8 Crew: 2 + 11 Cargo: 500 Main Weapon: PKT (T) Secondary Weapon: N/A Price: 65000

How do those stats look?

For those who use the 4e timeline, IRL, Sweden acquired approx. 400 former East German MT-LBs in 1993 and held on to them until 2011 when they were handed over to Finland. They were locally designated Pbv 401).

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