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  #1  
Old 07-21-2022, 06:51 PM
Toxoplasmaman Toxoplasmaman is offline
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Default Promotions in TW 2000

Okay, I'm curious about how the US military would peomote officers with the split of the government.
Granted alot of officers would be wearing several bigger sizes of hats compared to their rank but the war was ongoing for 3+years and you can't have 2nd Luwees in charge of battalions.

I've done some Google-fu and it looks like you need Senate approval to promote to 0-4 regular, or 0-6 reserves.

Would martial law preclude the necessity of Senate approval? I did a 10 minute search but couldn't find much of amything. The above info I got from a blogger who was a retired 27 year Marine mustang officer.
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Old 07-21-2022, 06:55 PM
Toxoplasmaman Toxoplasmaman is offline
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Though getting promoted to 0-3 could give you enough rank to command a Battalion. Ish....

I'm just curious how the "normal" procedures in the military would be affected by the government split.

Last edited by Raellus; 07-21-2022 at 07:28 PM. Reason: By request of.poster.
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Old 07-21-2022, 06:59 PM
Toxoplasmaman Toxoplasmaman is offline
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Hmm, edit isn't working.

Change the above post to 0-3 in command of a Battalion. And sorry about the spelling.
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  #4  
Old 07-21-2022, 08:19 PM
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I’m going to come at it two ways-

First, you’d see a lot of RA officers get frocked off of approved promotion lists pre-TDM as forces expand. As an example, promotions on the RA COLs list were at a near 66% selection rate during the height of GWOT while RA LTCs were at over 90% select, with RA MAJ being a fully qualified board. Frocking allows for early promotion off of a senate approved list based on requirements of a billet. The DoD has authority to reduce time in grade requirements to DOPMA minimums and waive normal education requirements as well (30 month captains in GWOT and degree completion LTs), and boards can be stacked so as to produce multiple lists. There could also be a request to suspend DOPMA and revert to the AUS system of theater rank.

Second, once you’re post TDM, services could legally do grade plate reductions within formations (battalions commanded by majors, for example). They could also advance officers on the USAR/NG list vice the RA list with issuance of accompanying active duty orders (not unlike the AUS system used before DOPMA). Finally, they could hold boards or allocate temporary appointment authority to theater commanders for o-4 and above with the understanding that the ranks are for the duration of the emergency and pending approval (this is a violation of DOPMA, and would be a needs must type situation).

For CIVGOV, they could adhere to a process similar to the traditional board/senate approval structure as they retain the structure in some form. The CIVGOV president would also retain direct nomination authority (with senate approval) for O-4 and above.

Last edited by Homer; 07-22-2022 at 05:08 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-22-2022, 08:15 AM
swaghauler swaghauler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxoplasmaman View Post
Okay, I'm curious about how the US military would peomote officers with the split of the government.
Granted alot of officers would be wearing several bigger sizes of hats compared to their rank but the war was ongoing for 3+years and you can't have 2nd Luwees in charge of battalions.

I've done some Google-fu and it looks like you need Senate approval to promote to 0-4 regular, or 0-6 reserves.

Would martial law preclude the necessity of Senate approval? I did a 10 minute search but couldn't find much of amything. The above info I got from a blogger who was a retired 27 year Marine mustang officer.
In my old Twilight2000 (v2.2) game this was never an issue because I never allowed a full split between MILGOV and CIVGOV. MILGOV and the COG government rule the US with an iron fist and having control of most of the power, communications, and food distribution networks would essentially ensure that it stayed that way.

So, in my game, CIVGOV was essentially a "5th column entity" working from INSIDE the MILGOV structure to regain control of the US Government. This means that CIVGOV "operations" were more often acts of theft of critical resources or acts of "sabotage" designed to reduce MILGOV's effectiveness. In some cases, the PCs didn't even KNOW that they were doing CIVGOV's bidding.
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Old 07-22-2022, 12:22 PM
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As one who hasn't served in the armed forces, military bureaucracy is somewhat baffling to me.

Would the legal formalities discussed already really be necessary c2000? At that point, do overseas military forces and/or the government have the capability to transmit/file/record the requisite paperwork through proper channels, especially when it's become unclear (or a matter of contention) what those proper channels are anymore.

In wartime, the US military has utilized brevet ranks and battlefield commissions. I imagine that these would be authorized, in the field/overseas, at the divisional level and above. With little hope of the paperwork making it back to the USA in a timely fashion, if at all, these rank increases would still be de facto, if not de jure. For the troops on the ground, I don't think it would matter much.

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  #7  
Old 07-22-2022, 01:34 PM
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DOPMA killed a lot of the older brevet, AUS, and battlefield promotion authorities. IRL the Army just brought back a pilot brevet program for critical fill positions through O-6, which required an amendment in the NDAA. Frocking has been the more typical method of filling empty billets. Frocking authority is normally delegated down to division or corps level. Reserve or AUS promotions could be brought in to allow for rapid growth with delegated authority. Using these authorities could allow MILGOV to avow that their officer promotions have legal legitimacy under pre-war US code.
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Old 07-22-2022, 05:51 PM
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Of course, in T2K you have the issue of "self-promotion." One of my players came upon a dead MAJ with pin-on rank and gave himself a bogus promotion. Since by 2000 no one was able to look his name up, he was later given command of a battalion.

I think that as the war goes on, this might become more common.
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2022, 06:18 PM
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There is the example of Wendell Fertig. He was a Lieutenant Colonel as of December 19, 1941 in the Philippines. He refused to surrender, and organized and commanded an American-Filipino guerrilla force on the Japanese-occupied, southern Philippine island of Mindanao. At it's height, he commanded approximately 32,000 troops the equivalent of an Army Corps—with 16,500 of them armed.

He promoted himself to Brigadier General in order to command such a large force.

When the submarine USS Narwhal arrived at Mindanao in Nov. 1943 to deliver supplies, the crew was met by a uniformed band playing "Stars and Stripes Forever."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendell_Fertig
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Old 07-22-2022, 06:21 PM
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Self promotion, self award, and identity theft seem like they’d be more common post TDM for good or ill.

The movie “Imitation General” comes to mind.
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Old 07-22-2022, 06:55 PM
Toxoplasmaman Toxoplasmaman is offline
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Medals also. Granted, once the wheels fall off at Kalisz, awards fall by the wayside but 1999 was sorta normal.

I believe any award Silver Star or higher needs congressional approval.

It's just stuff that makes me keep coming back to TW2000.

It's better then scrounging up some TP!
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  #12  
Old 07-22-2022, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer View Post
Self promotion, self award, and identity theft seem like they’d be more common post TDM for good or ill.

The movie “Imitation General” comes to mind.
https://youtu.be/bCnzi6L_BsM
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Old 07-26-2022, 02:43 PM
Silent Hunter UK Silent Hunter UK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
There is the example of Wendell Fertig. He was a Lieutenant Colonel as of December 19, 1941 in the Philippines. He refused to surrender, and organized and commanded an American-Filipino guerrilla force on the Japanese-occupied, southern Philippine island of Mindanao. At it's height, he commanded approximately 32,000 troops the equivalent of an Army Corps—with 16,500 of them armed.

He promoted himself to Brigadier General in order to command such a large force.

When the submarine USS Narwhal arrived at Mindanao in Nov. 1943 to deliver supplies, the crew was met by a uniformed band playing "Stars and Stripes Forever."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendell_Fertig
There was also this guy who found a Luftwaffe Captain uniform and used it as a means to engage in mass murder:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willi_Herold
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2022, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
Of course, in T2K you have the issue of "self-promotion." One of my players came upon a dead MAJ with pin-on rank and gave himself a bogus promotion. Since by 2000 no one was able to look his name up, he was later given command of a battalion.

I think that as the war goes on, this might become more common.
I like this idea of self promotion. Altering/forging a military ID card with name/rank/service number, etc. would be a good way to make the Forgery skill relevant, as would some Acting rolls, to 'Act' like the rank you've acquired. Lots of fun to be had here...
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Old 07-27-2022, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK View Post
There was also this guy who found a Luftwaffe Captain uniform and used it as a means to engage in mass murder:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willi_Herold
Nasty Guy.
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Old 07-27-2022, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
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Nasty Guy.
I highly recommend movie Der Hauptmann.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_zSFeHfglc

In other circumstances Herold could have been a great leader, but sadly he was deeply immoral character.
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