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Default M2A2 Bradley

kcdusk 11-05-2005, 10:01 PM I've got my Bradley M2A2 into firing position. The Bradley has twin Tow Launchers.


Can they both be fired at once?


Can someone fire the 25mm while the TOWs are being launched & reloaded or are they fired by the same person (gunner)?

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Matt Wiser 11-05-2005, 10:25 PM No. One TOW at a time-remember, each missile needs someone to keep the sight on the target. Gunner can only fire either the 25mm, coax, or the TOW. He (and in the T2K verse, she) can only fire one weapon at a time. Either you

fire a TOW into a T-72, spray troops with Coax, or plink BMPs with 25 mike-mike. Can't do all at once.

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pmulcahy 11-06-2005, 12:19 AM I've got my Bradley M2A2 into firing position. The Bradley has twin Tow Launchers.


Can they both be fired at once?


Can someone fire the 25mm while the TOWs are being launched & reloaded or are they fired by the same person (gunner)?


The gunner fires the TOWs, autocannon, and coaxial machinegun. The Commander can override the gunner and take over the autocannon and coax in an emergency, but they still use the same fire control system, and therefore you can't fire all three at once. It's one at a time.


Generally, one of the passengers in the rear reloads the launchers though a small hatch in the roof of the hull rear behind the turret, but the turret must be turned almost 90 degrees to the left and the launcher box lowered for the reloading to take place. The commander or gunner (or even driver) could also reload it in a pinch -- but the Bradley is very vulnerable when reloading the TOW launchers.


You can't fire both missiles at once -- there is a great danger of fratricide (the missiles or trailing wires hitting each other), destroying one or both missiles. One missile has to detonate before the other may be launched. It's built into the system.


Also, something that is little known: don't fire a TOW over water from a ground launcher. If the trailing guidance wires hit the water (they do bounce around a lot), the wires will cause a short-circuit, leading to a self-destruct of the missile.

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ReHerakhte 11-06-2005, 12:24 AM Something to add to Matt's info, from what I recall of it, the TOW launcher requires someone to leave the safety of the vehicle to reload it. I think the procedure was to slew the turret so the launcher box is close to the rear roof hatch and then someone would reload through the hatch (trying to keep their exposure to a minimum). Naturally this ruins any NBC protection you may be enjoying from the closed up vehicle.

Although the track commander (TC) can take over the sights and firing of the weapon systems on most vehicles, this is usually reserved for emergencies i.e. the TC is always observing the surrounds to look for potential threats, if he sees one he can over-ride the system to bring the weapons to bear on the most threatening hostile and then either he or the gunner can engage the new target.


Something else to keep in mind, the idea of having infantry combat vehicles operate as tank destoyers has been around for a while and has achieved mixed results. Some people (politicians, designers and some higher ranked military officers) think that it's a really nifty idea having a battle taxi that can kill tanks... soon after people accept the idea they start claiming that you don't actually need tanks anymore because any infantry vehicle can kill a tank if it's given missiles. Other people believe that the infantry vehicle already has enough to do without pretending to be a mini-tank. As an added incentive to NOT take on tanks with an infantry vehicle, typical armour thickness on a tank is about 150-200mm while on a typical infantry vehicle it is about 10-50mm.


Personally, I feel that you should leave tank destroying to dedicated tank destroyers (whether they be aircraft, ATGW teams, tank hunter vehicles or other tanks) so the TOWs on the Bradley should be for carefully considered use only i.e. ambushes of other armoured vehicles (including tanks if the circumstances are favourable), overwatch while moving incase any unwanted guests arrive and so on.


Cheers,

Turrethead Kev.

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DeaconR 11-06-2005, 01:31 AM Just out of curiousity, how many here have Tow or other missiles for that matter available on a regular basis in TW2000? I tend to depict them as rare military treasures in my game.

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Abbott Shaull 11-06-2005, 01:54 AM Wow, that is one of several things that the rules never really cover there are some pissed off players out there now...lol Or some happy GMs... depending on what foot the shoe is on.


Wow again. I never knew that Paul. Now would the same be true with the Dragon too? Just wondering. I would think it would be the same. Glad I never had to deploy and use it in case it was. There are lot of players who had none inform GM who really will love you too...lol I wonder if any of the evil ones were taking notes.... Oh of course they were...lol...


I agree that the M2/M3 any version should be used to take one tanks unless it is in Ambush, overwatch or as a last resort. They already have enough on their plates. With the support of the Infantry that they carry and what not. It almost like taking M113 and putting that ET/hammerhead looking gadget and vola you have M901 ITV that is capable of taking out tanks too. Which normally one AT Platoon would be attached to each Mechanized Company or that was how the theory was suppose to go...lol You got to love the platform manufactures, their Engineers, and the Generals who dream up this stuff in their wet dreams....


You know most politicians and governmental bean counters have never served in a Mechanized unit while it has been under fire. Let alone in one that has encounter enemy tanks... Come to think of neither have I, but I have enough common sense from Airborne and Infantry training to know when the big track vehicles with the big guns come knocking you better pick and choose when you take them on with your Dragon AT missile...lol They seem to forget that if you dead before the missile hits using a wire-guided missile that most of the time missile will miss.


Now with that said and in a t2k setting when any weapons system would be used to hunt tanks no matter how practical it would be...lol I can see lot of M2/M3s left that had operational TOW launchers being used as Tank hunters. No matter if the 25mm was out of service and what they had left for 7.62mm ammo either. Shoot by this time even the HMMWV mounted TOW launcher would be a particular pain for both enemy/friendly tanks alike...lol


Abbott.

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kcdusk 11-06-2005, 03:10 AM I tend to use TOW's, ATM and other goodies regularly in my game for two reasons.


#1, I dont get to game enough, and so i like to use what the game has to offer.


#2, i use this type of stuff at the moment because i just bought V2.2, and so i'm really just using the Bradley and a few other items so that i can quickly run through the rules and at least use them once and be semi-familiar with them.


Once I'm sure i've got a handle on the rules. I normally strip the goodies right back and make PC's earn any equipment they get.


Other times i'll equip a team up with all the best (kevlar vests, radios, any weapons they can carry, sometimes a vehicle) and then give them a single, once off, mission against numerically tough opposition who have some lesser goodies (T55 tank or PK machine gun). The PC's never know how "much" they are expected to accomplish until they get out and debriefed. So they might be tasked to track down and find a T55 tank. They dodge some encounters, take a few on ... defeat the T55 and if they make it out alive their Handler will say ... you were expected to clear that bunker also instead of evading it or you damaged the Helecopter at the end, good effort.

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thefusilier 11-06-2005, 08:14 AM Just out of curiousity, how many here have Tow or other missiles for that matter available on a regular basis in TW2000? I tend to depict them as rare military treasures in my game.


I use em once in a while but their numbers are limited. Only well equiped (in Tw2000 sense) larger units normally have them and not small bands or roamers or marauders or anything.

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pmulcahy 11-06-2005, 02:14 PM <snip>


Wow again. I never knew that Paul. Now would the same be true with the Dragon too? Just wondering. I would think it would be the same. Glad I never had to deploy and use it in case it was. There are lot of players who had none inform GM who really will love you too...lol I wonder if any of the evil ones were taking notes.... Oh of course they were...lol...


<snip>


Abbott.


We were never told that particular weakness existed with the Dragon, but I've heard it about a lot of other wire-guided missiles, such as the AT-3 Sagger, HOT, Milan...I think there were some others, but I can't remember them offhand.

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Abbott Shaull 11-06-2005, 04:29 PM Well Paul if that many other wire-guide missiles had the same issue, then the odds aren't really against the Dragon not having them... YIKES....


Good thing I was never Dragon Gunner...lol It make me like the AT-4 that much more... Damnest joke was jumping out of an Air Farce C-130 or C-141 with a Dragon. Then again AT-4 wasn't much better either... Or humping the Dragon all over Fort Bragg or Camp McKall.


Abbott

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pmulcahy 11-06-2005, 07:32 PM Try the earliest ATGMs, such as the AT-1, AT-2, AT-3, Bantam, SS-11, etc...you had to keep both the missile AND the target in your sight!


I was a Dragon gunner for a time (long enough to get a C2 identifier), but never used one in combat. I'll never forget the first time I saw a live one fired. It was fired by a classmate (the best gunner in the class was allowed to fire one live round) at an old M-47 on a target range at Benning. It tracked beautifully, he hit the tank in the turret...and it bounced, deflected, and went almost straight upwards after that, at which point my classmate self-destructed it. I was no longer impressed by the Dragon...until a guy in my squad used one to trash a BMP in Kuwait during Desert Storm. He hit it in the rear, in those stupid fuel tanks the Russians so thoughtfully put in the rear doors of the BMPs.


Lesson learned -- don't try to fight a tank with a Dragon. Use them on APCs, particularly from the rear.

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kcdusk 11-06-2005, 07:45 PM Critical failure roll? Or wrong tool for the wrong job!

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pmulcahy 11-09-2005, 12:48 AM Critical failure roll? Or wrong tool for the wrong job!


Well, the Dragon is the wrong tool for taking out a tank, but it's also a telling story about the lack of penetration the Dragon offers.

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pmulcahy 11-09-2005, 12:59 AM <snip>

Good thing I was never Dragon Gunner...lol It make me like the AT-4 that much more... Damnest joke was jumping out of an Air Farce C-130 or C-141 with a Dragon. Then again AT-4 wasn't much better either... Or humping the Dragon all over Fort Bragg or Camp McKall.


Abbott


I only jumped an AT-4 once; it really wasn't a problem once I got out of the door. But waddling around with the damn thing on Green Ramp -- that's hard enough with standard gear!


I once calculated (after the exercise) how much I humped into the final exercise in Infantry OSUT and back out again. I was part of the mortar platoon; I can't remember everything I had, but my estimate came out to 117 pounds, including all my standard field gear (and the drill sergeants made us take virtually everything we were issued), M-16, a can of 5.56mm blanks, the 81's bipod and a few dummy rounds, a week's worth of MRE's, and a s**tload of other stuff...luckily, the longest hump with all that stuff was 6 miles (back to the barracks), and they inserted us by chopper (flown by student pilots up from Rucker, taking part of their final exams).

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thefusilier 11-09-2005, 03:06 AM I once calculated (after the exercise) how much I humped into the final exercise in Infantry OSUT and back out again. I was part of the mortar platoon; I can't remember everything I had, but my estimate came out to 117 pounds, including all my standard field gear (and the drill sergeants made us take virtually everything we were issued), M-16, a can of 5.56mm blanks, the 81's bipod and a few dummy rounds, a week's worth of MRE's, and a s**tload of other stuff...luckily, the longest hump with all that stuff was 6 miles (back to the barracks), and they inserted us by chopper (flown by student pilots up from Rucker, taking part of their final exams).


I hear ya (although never as much as your above example). We used to say "I thought this was supposed to be the LIGHT infantry."


Fort Rucker? Is that base for helicopter training?

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pmulcahy 11-09-2005, 03:21 AM I

Fort Rucker? Is that base for helicopter training?


It was then, and I think it is still now, but I've heard they might move helicopter pilot training to Ft. Campbell (or may have already). Ft. Rucker is in Alabama, though I don't know exactly where.

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graebardeII 11-09-2005, 09:18 AM Rucker is southeastern Alabama between Ozark and Enterprise. It is still the helo training center. I would be surprised to see them move to Campbell. That place is full to the hilt now, and airspace is premium for the 101 without jamming it more with trainee flights. Though they would save money on PCS moves for the pilots after training, since MOST of them probably transistion to the 101.

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ChalkLine 11-09-2005, 02:25 PM Papacat once told me (hazy memory here) that the commander gets a lot of diesel exhaust from the Brad in his face, just a bit of colour for GMs

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pmulcahy 11-09-2005, 03:17 PM Papacat once told me (hazy memory here) that the commander gets a lot of diesel exhaust from the Brad in his face, just a bit of colour for GMs


The M-113 series is the same way.

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