RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-07-2021, 02:57 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3catcircus View Post
It's not that they may be easier to maintain, technology-wise. It's that they require so much more of it the older they get. It's easy to troubleshoot and replace an LRU on new kit. When you have to half-step down to the circuit card or the mechanical subassembly and then physically repair it, it is infinitely more difficult and time-consuming, even if the equipment is easier to understand and repairs can be done with a screwdriver and wrench but takes 4 hrs instead of 15 minutes - when you have a fleet of vehicles you are maintaining.
In a number of the militaries of less wealthy countries, a soldier's time is cheaper than new vehicles and there aren't sufficient threats to justify spending large sums of money on the latest shiny toys. There are M8 Greyhounds still serving in multiple Latin American forces, while the last M4 Sherman tanks were retired in 2018 and Paraguay might still have some M3 Stuarts in service (Uruguay retired theirs in 1999). As far as I know, M3 half-tracks are still in service in Mexico. About 15 years newer but still "obsolete," there are hundreds of M60 tanks still in service, to the point that Raytheon and Leonardo have both introduced SLEP packages within the last 5 years, while Taiwan implemented an Elbit SLEP in 2019. There's plenty of old stuff either still trucking along in active service with second (or third, or fourth) users or in reserve to be recalled if there's a big enough war to need fast expansion of a military.
__________________
The poster formerly known as The Dark

The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-07-2021, 04:45 PM
unipus unipus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 67
Default

A point I haven't seen brought up in this thread (although maybe I missed it) is that you'd be far, far more likely to see many of these obsolescent vehicles than cutting-edge ones, just as a matter of logistics. Where were all the T-80Us and M1A1s? On the front line. That means that most of them got blow'd up in the first weeks of the war. The repair yards get blow'd up too, the spares get used up or blow'd up. Pretty soon there's not many functioning cool guy tanks around.

All of the above, in super fast motion, for aircraft.

Meanwhile, months or even years later, huge numbers of T-55s and M60s and M48s and T-34s are showing up to keep the show going. I doubt there are a whole lot of replacement T-80s coming, especially once the nukes drop.

Someone said a tank that's out of main gun rounds isn't better than a sandbag emplacement. Functionally true, maybe. In terms of morale on your average infantryman, it's pretty hard to beat the effect of knowing a TANK is guarding the approach to a town. (and I've personally seen this effect even in-game. It's great. One immobile T-55 is plenty enough to send the players scattering to rethink their whole plan -- as well it should!)
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-07-2021, 05:50 PM
Vespers War Vespers War is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 266
Default

And modernization can simplify the logistics somewhat if a user plans accordingly - when Egypt updated their T-55s to Ramses II standards, they put in an engine with ~80% commonality with the M60A3's engine. They also used the same M68 cannon that they had used for updating the M60A3, the road wheels were the same as the M48, and British tracks replaced the Soviet style, so spare parts could be used across multiple vehicles. These would have been post-Twilight War vehicles (the prototype was in the late 1980s but series production wasn't until 2004), but the principle remains the same regardless of era - replace aging assemblies with newer ones you're already using, and the maintenance problems become more manageable.
__________________
The poster formerly known as The Dark

The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-08-2021, 02:03 AM
Ursus Maior Ursus Maior is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ruhr Area, Germany
Posts: 59
Default

Yes, these are very good points. Taiwan put M18 Hellcat turrets onto it surplus M42 Duster hulls, creating its Type 64 light tank. In my opinion, the difference between a Frankentank and a cross-model using upgrade is proper technical documentation and a series of builds larger than a hand full of field conversions plus avoiding obvious design bungles (e. g. cannot be operated safely).
__________________
Liber et infractus
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-08-2021, 09:35 AM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 3,269
Default Wear and Tear (or Overuse It and You Might Lose It)

A lot of good points have been raised so far. Another factor to consider is how much, or how little, certain weapon systems are used in field training. Some armies can afford to do a relatively large amount of training, so their equipment sees a lot of use- this produces wear and tear that, in the short-term, requires routine maintenance, and in the long term requires replacement of parts and other more involved work. A lot of armies in the developing world (and some of the poorer Warsaw Pact nations during the Cold War) can't afford to conduct a lot of realistic field training, so their tanks and whatnot spend all but a couple of days a year in depot, not accumulating wear and tear*. So, it might be the case that at the beginning of the Twilight War, a T-34 that's been sitting in a depot for 360 days a year for decades (assuming it receives a modicum of TLC during that time) might be in better working condition than a 10-year old M1 that's been in and out of the shop half-a-dozen times because it's in the field on maneuvers or on the range (or whatever) at least 180 days a year.

*Disparities in training and their impact on operational readiness and battlefield performance is a topic for another thread.

-
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure module, Rook's Gambit, and campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, available-

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook

Last edited by Raellus; 06-08-2021 at 10:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-11-2021, 07:28 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 3,269
Default WW2 Guns in Service Today

Stumbled across this video today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s59IFr_5DJ4

No real surprises, IMHO.

-
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure module, Rook's Gambit, and campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, available-

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook

Last edited by Raellus; Yesterday at 01:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.