Reenactors?

[kato13]

Jason Weiser 11-09-2005, 08:15 PM Ok,

We discussed old gear and armories, but what of renactiors? They're organized and not all of them would have been taken into the military. Now the war might have impacted events to some extent, but all in all, there is still a sizeable community in both the US, Canada and the UK.


We all know the Civil War and AWI reneactors (Mounted Cav and Dragoon units would be death on Marauders). But what about those WWII reneactors? Some of those guys have tanks. I'd think twice before screwing with a guy who has his own Sherman, and seeing as how these tanks are sometimes fitted to fire blank rounds, would not be difficult to fire real ones.


What's most important is these folks are organized bodies of men, whom have trained and "fought" togther. They are uniformed and organized, though for the community that might be saved by them, having renenactors playing German WWII Fallschirmjager show up might be a mite disconcerting.

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firewalker 11-09-2005, 11:15 PM kind of tying in with the armories discussion.


what about the historical armories. for instance in virgina we have both Jamestown and Williamsburg both have armories representing there respective time pariod. the Williamsburg is i think the larger of the two. also both place's have interpreters (paid renactiors) and such things as metal smith shops (black smith and silver smith's), glass blowers, printing shop and a mill yard. it's been i while since i was last there so the line up might have changed. the point is that there a good source of nolige and equipment for how to do things with out access to modern tools

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Targan 11-09-2005, 11:25 PM In Perth we have The Grey Company, but they are mediaeval reenactors, and I think their chainmail and longswords would fare poorly against automatic rifles.

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firewalker 11-09-2005, 11:48 PM but that only holds as long as the guns/brass hold out.


if your game goes with the idea that civilization hasn't sled as far as it's going to yet then that sort of thing could become vary important.


besides if your going to try and bilded a command structure at lest you have something to start with.

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DeaconR 11-10-2005, 05:44 AM Another aspect of reenactors are historical parks for instance or those who enjoy the more logistical or technical aspect of reenactment.


In my game the town the players have arrived at is doing well in part because it had such a historical park as well as a sort of artists' colony which had a number of people who enjoyed more traditional means of producing crafts. The result is that they have a blacksmithy, potters, carpenters, weavers and brewers.

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Twilight2000V3 11-10-2005, 08:02 AM Jason... right up my alley... Im both a WWII re-enactor and a Fallchirmjager re-enactor.... LOL


tanks are rare here on the west coast. There are a handful of actual tanks and about the same in APCs (that run). Most of the guns (99%) are "dewats" or non functioning. They do fire blanks but thats about it. most of the big guns are gas operated guns (propane). The biggest you may find that MAY fire a live round is .50 cal.


Now you can find a live gun in a military museum like the Patton at Ft. Knox. But most of those do not run and would probably be hard to get them to run.


As far as individual weapons, there are a but load of Garands, M-1 carbines, K-98s, and stuff like that but noone has any MP-40s and such (most of the ones you see are rented from movie houses or are non-gun blank firing only expensive cap guns!!). There are many WWII full autos running around but they are in the hands of collectors and movie houses. The problem with some of these weaposn is that they are OLD and are not taken care of. And also they are balnk adapted so you may have to do some work to get them to fire live rounds.


But hey a bunch of guys with live firing Garands and M-1 carbines sure does boost your militia. LOL, only one problem with the re-enactors. Once the live rounds start coming in, its not "Combat!" anymore and people get killed. Re-enacting is fun and a great hobby but its NOT the military.


Max

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DeaconR 11-13-2005, 04:41 AM Something else to consider are those who simply live the lifestyle of another age. The Amish, the Bruderhof and others live much as north Americans did in the 19th century. Many of these groups are pacifist and I wonder how they would survive the horrors described as taking place in the areas they actually live in. But there might be some who would under such extremes take up arms, or who would manage to get to or be to begin with in obscure remote areas.


By the way I depicted such a group that my players came across during a difficult trek through a wilderness area in winter. Their vehicle had stalled and the roads were impassable anyway, and they came across a couple of hunters who seemed very friendly once they were assured that the players were not part of some marauder band. The players went with them and found in a hidden valley a place from another time. There were blacksmithies, windmills, and no sign of anything that had not been built by hand or by hand refined means. All the women wore ankle length dresses and wore kerchiefs or hats during the day, while most of the men had beards if they were able to grow them fully. The players were a little intimidated by the village's very literal and black and white religious beliefs, but found them people of integrity. It was a theocracy but not a harsh one; the people had basically grown from a separatist group founded in the late 19th century and some modern people had joined it out of shared belief.

The group were able to get their vehicle towed to a barn and managed to repair it over the next few days in comfort and peace, and got well fed in the process. In turn they provided the village with a map of what they had encountered up till arriving there, and also hunted some game for them. They traded some medecine they could spare for some extra food and left some interesting friends behind them. It also presented a sharp contrast from other places they had visited where people were scrabbling in ruins for salvage, wandering the roads, lurking behind heavily fortified farms near highways dotted with rusting wrecks and so on.

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abaumgartg 11-13-2005, 08:44 AM Something else to consider are those who simply live the lifestyle of another age. The Amish, the Bruderhof and others live much as north Americans did in the 19th century.


Not quite what you are talking about, but Orson Scott Card wrote The Folks of the Fringe (or something like that) about a post-apoc world. The story ends in Utah where the Mormons have set up a pretty good civilization around the Uber-Great Salt lake (it is about 10 times or more its current size due to global warming). I have to say, it's not a great book, but there are many interesting ideas for a post apoc setting.

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DeaconR 11-13-2005, 10:21 PM "Folk of the Fringe" does have some interesting ideas. While not all Mormons would necessarily be devout or would have had the one year's supply of food that they are supposedly meant to always have just in case of apocalypse, enough would and the idea is there of a theocratic and yet American society that would rise to the occasion.


But no, what I meant is that some groups are somewhat separatist and believe in living according to not just the principles of another era but the lifestyle. They live just the way rural people did in the 19th century for instance and even wear the clothing styles of another age. Mostly this is done for religious reasons, mostly living simply and according to traditions that society as a whole has long abandoned. So for instance they use hand powered lathes, use horse drawn wagons, have traditional barnraisings and so on.

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ChalkLine 11-13-2005, 10:36 PM The thing that re-enactors of pre-industrial eras have is that the things they make are often (relatively) simple. 15th century hosen for your legs keeps the cold out, and is cut in a way that maximises cloth usage and has snug fit for heat retention. They use leather like plastic, basketry like cardboard and cloth/rope like webbing. I make 15th century plate armour, and I start by making a padded webbing jacket that it all hangs off, it looks functional and military, which is what it is.

They also have a better theoretical knowledge of preindustrial techniques in many areas, a reenactor may well be able to tell a farmer of 17th century systems. This can be true even if it's not their era, they learn about other periods in their quest to avoid non-period systems.

If you consider a total breakdown to include no longer allowing easy access to firearms, remember that plate armour arose about fifty years after firearms reached a plateau and fell away before the firearms moved on. The armour ceased being worn because the knights were transformed into officers, and did not fight as heavy cavalry. Melee armour may make a come back, especially if most people are using woodaxes, machetes and clubs to settle differences.

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ReHerakhte 11-14-2005, 05:14 AM ...Melee armour may make a come back, especially if most people are using woodaxes, machetes and clubs to settle differences.

Very much as it did in WW1 for trench raids, German, French, British and American troops made use of either purpose made or 18th century armour to cover the chest and head... of course they were getting particularly nasty with such items as sharpened shovels, trench knives, swords and even home made maces because a battle rifle is just a little bit of a problem in close in fighting!



Cheers,

Kevin

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Targan 11-14-2005, 05:32 AM Some of the PCs in my game wear MPCOS ballistic protection as well as kevlar vests and helmets, and some wear SWAT-style elbow and knee pads, but none wear mediaeval-style armour. Many of them do carry melee weapons, however. Po is a kung fu practitioner and sometimes gets around with a Chinese sword strapped to one hip, several PCs have had big-ass bowie knives or kukris, my brother's character Ratowi recently added a fireman's axe to his inventory, and the new SEAL PC HD Black has a Gerber tomahawk. Ratowi is so big he wields his fireman's axe one handed. Scary!

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DeaconR 11-14-2005, 08:30 AM In "Rock in Troubled Waters" it depicts the refugees and scavengers living in the areas around the ruins of New Jersey, Philadelphia, Trenton and so on as being reduced to using hand weapons in any desperate struggles for food and such. What this tells me is that only the remaining military and government enclaves as well as marauders still have any modern weapons in the area, and that there is all the more reason in "Rifle River" for the ruthless and desperate actions of the Gang of the Gun.


Another thing that has occured to me is that reenactors who do 17th to 19th century reenactment might very well have gunsmiths who know how to make gunpowder and shot. It would definitely give them something of an advantage when deliveries stopped arriving at local gunstores and armouries.


There is also such a wide variety of black powder weapons available that it would simply be very interesting to see some put to use.

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TiggerCCW UK 11-14-2005, 11:50 AM I recently acquired a PDF of the Infantry firearms guide and there are a couple of muskets in it. I'm using these as a generic template for homemade blackpowder weapons which will be becoming more prominent in my game world. I've no idea how simple they are to make in real life, but thats what gaming is all about - if they can make homemade mortars in the Wojo factory I reckon muskets are equally possible.

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firewalker 11-17-2005, 10:10 PM i don't no how prevalent it still is but there used to be a number of gun smiths in the blue ridge mountains still making black powder guns by hand.


some of the old "fox fire" books had sections on some of them. not sure which ones, but any of them would be good sources of info about old folk skills and nolage that would be coming back into more wide spread use after the war. and Williamsburg has a gun shop in there recreated colonial street complete with all the tools you would need to make em.

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firewalker 11-26-2005, 08:43 PM there was an article in the Washington post (wich i have lost for the moment) about an attempt to legalize spear hunting in virgina i believe. specifically using atl (throughing bords/stiks) and spears. just something to add to all the compound bow's and crossbows floating around.


hay targan, dose your guy carry a flat head, beak back, bubble headed or a forestry axe? cuse if it's the forestry then i would run,



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