HAAM suits.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

You forget that HAAM suits are too radical, most would be at labs and proving grounds, and put into storage like a lot of nifty ideas.

What do you mean "too radical"? Powered armor has been on military wishlists for half a century, and has been actively developed for a decade. The indicated numbers don't support "labs and proving grounds", those are high even for low-rate production - if the US has more than a dozen or so it is because they are being used.

[dragoon500ly]

The military has been test exo-skeletons for decades, some of the demo models are quite impressive with their enhanced strength, power seems to be the major stumbling block, with current batteries and fuel cells just not capable of going for more than a few hours, adding armor (weight), weapons, ammo, sensors, comm gear (did I mention weight?) Cuts into the operational time.

There is also the issue of ground pressure, you can only apply so much weight into the "footprint" before you start having issues with the suits sinking into soft ground, this is why many of the military's robots are fitted with tracks, that all terrain mobility is critical to the armored suit concept.

Truth be told, I feel that the HAAM suit will never be deployed.

[mikeo80]

Here is something for you to think about.

http://news.yahoo.com/military-39-39...141715486.html

Not a HAAM suit. Not Iron Man either. But, this seems to have potential. We will see.

My $0.02

Mike

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

The military has been test exo-skeletons for decades, some of the demo models are quite impressive with their enhanced strength, power seems to be the major stumbling block, with current batteries and fuel cells just not capable of going for more than a few hours, adding armor (weight), weapons, ammo, sensors, comm gear (did I mention weight?) Cuts into the operational time.

Those are all valid for current demo models, but don't apply to the HAAM suit which has overcome those issues - we have the stats!

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

There is also the issue of ground pressure, you can only apply so much weight into the "footprint" before you start having issues with the suits sinking into soft ground, this is why many of the military's robots are fitted with tracks, that all terrain mobility is critical to the armored suit concept.

Using 3ed stats (since I don't have 4ed), the suit masses 907kg. If we give it another 93kg of pilot and such to make it a nice even 1000kg, and then assume that it has two feet that are ellipses 12" long and 4" wide (not unreasonable, to me), then the total ground pressure is about 50kPa (~7.3 PSI). If my math is correct then with those reasonably sized feet it would exert about as much ground pressure as a barefoot person, and much less than a car.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Those are all valid for current demo models, but don't apply to the HAAM suit which has overcome those issues - we have the stats!


Using 3ed stats (since I don't have 4ed), the suit masses 907kg. If we give it another 93kg of pilot and such to make it a nice even 1000kg, and then assume that it has two feet that are ellipses 12" long and 4" wide (not unreasonable, to me), then the total ground pressure is about 50kPa (~7.3 PSI). If my math is correct then with those reasonably sized feet it would exert about as much ground pressure as a barefoot person, and much less than a car.

Math seems off. Area of each ellipse is ~50 sq in. Mass 2200 pounds. Total "foot" area is ~100 sq in. Pressure with both feet on the ground about 22 PSI.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

Math seems off. Area of each ellipse is ~50 sq in. Mass 2200 pounds. Total "foot" area is ~100 sq in. Pressure with both feet on the ground about 22 PSI.

My math was off, I had plugged in major/minor axis where it should have been semi-major/semi-minor. Using the right numbers puts the pressure at 29 PSI / 201 kPa... which is still about the ground pressure of a passenger car.

Still too much? Extend the feet to 15" long and 6" wide (smaller than most snowshoes) and pressure drops to 15.6 PSI / 107 kPa. Extend them to 8"x25" (small snowshoe) and PSI drops to 7 PSI / 48 kPa. Make them 10"x36" (large snowshoe) and PSI is only 3.9 PSI / 27 kPa.

None of those seem unreasonable. Heck, I might give the suit those 6"x15" feet for urban work and then give them attachable foot plates in the larger sizes for off-roading. The suits would still be too heavy for indoors, but that is the only real issue I see with the pressure.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

What do you mean "too radical"? Powered armor has been on military wishlists for half a century, and has been actively developed for a decade. The indicated numbers don't support "labs and proving grounds", those are high even for low-rate production - if the US has more than a dozen or so it is because they are being used.

We also have a type of force field, is it standard? Are the rail guns standard on destroyers? R&D suffers the "use it or lose it" mentality, prototypes suffer from "doesn't fit our current needs". The exoskeleton DoD fools around with allows current individual equipment to be used, HAAM only allows the non electric 20MM round.(Same round electrically primed is used by the navy Phalanx"R2D2".
Boils down to Council of tomorrow sees the HAAM potential and gives the go ahead, Military procurement sees the HAAM and beauracracy ensues. Read about General LeMays purchase of the AR-15 and the fit it caused.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

We also have a type of force field, is it standard? Are the rail guns standard on destroyers? R&D suffers the "use it or lose it" mentality, prototypes suffer from "doesn't fit our current needs".

If force fields and rail guns were at the same apparent TRL as the HAAM suits, then yes, they would be getting rolled out everywhere right now. "Force fields" at this point are laboratory creations with no practical usage, perhaps generously a TRL of 3. Rail guns are at the "fieldable prototype" stage and are being fielded with the intention of yes, making them standard on destroyers very soon, a TRL of 8! The discussions above have indicated HAAM suits at an early TRL 9 in 1989, and I have yet to see reasons why even that same level of performance at a mature TRL 9 would not be highly desired today.

So why do you think the HAAM suit would not be standard?

Originally Posted by .45cultist

The exoskeleton DoD fools around with allows current individual equipment to be used, HAAM only allows the non electric 20MM round.(Same round electrically primed is used by the navy Phalanx"R2D2".

Not sure why this is an issue at all. Is the HAAM somehow prevented from using other gear, or is it just that it only has one issued weapon? If the HAAM were real (or used in TMP) I completely agree that there should be more diverse weapons available, but I see absolutely no technical issues in furnishing them so I don't see what the problem is.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Boils down to Council of tomorrow sees the HAAM potential and gives the go ahead, Military procurement sees the HAAM and beauracracy ensues. Read about General LeMays purchase of the AR-15 and the fit it caused.

I don't see how the AR-15 plays into this unless it was the only assault rifle in the world at the time - if the HAAM suit was pushed off because there were even vaguely comparable alternatives, then what are they? New technology, when effective, is transformational. The HAAM suit as described is overwhelmingly effective and exists without anything comparable that could create the kind of quagmire you describe. Everyone is looking for the next such thing, and I don't see how bureaucracy would stop that.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I don't see how the AR-15 plays into this unless it was the only assault rifle in the world at the time - if the HAAM suit was pushed off because there were even vaguely comparable alternatives, then what are they? New technology, when effective, is transformational. The HAAM suit as described is overwhelmingly effective and exists without anything comparable that could create the kind of quagmire you describe. Everyone is looking for the next such thing, and I don't see how bureaucracy would stop that.

Curtis Lemay said," I'll take 20,000" with out any procurement input. Of course with the 4th Ed scenario that might be moot. A snake eater HAAM could cause satisfying dismay.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Curtis Lemay said," I'll take 20,000" with out any procurement input.

That wouldn't work with this scale of an item. Realistically, HAAM suits would be hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Of course with the 4th Ed scenario that might be moot. A snake eater HAAM could cause satisfying dismay.

If the US military had this technology for ~20 years pre-war I cannot see why they would not be popping up all over the place. Operation at Riverton had a tank, I would expect HAAM suits to last as well and be at least as prevalent. I would also expect the KFS to have a bunch, stolen variously from the Project and the Army!

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I would also expect the KFS to have a bunch, stolen variously from the Project and the Army!

Expect them to field them soon. They have one from the captured science one vehicle.

[ArmySGT.]

So with 80's, 90's, and 00's tech what becomes HAAM suits integrated capabilities in the Mk3, Mk4, etc?

P.S. I may or may not be stealing some sweet ideas from artists on Deviant art.

multi spectral display? So thermal vision, infrared, and low light all integrated in one overly as a complete and colorized display is a good option like the latest generation monoculars that are thermal imagers and low light at the same time.