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  #61  
Old 07-21-2020, 12:18 PM
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Even T2K supplements disagree on the history of the Twilight War. For instance the Core Timeline (any version) says that the Soviets first used tactical nuclear weapons when NATO forces crossed into Soviet territory.
They don't actually disagree. The core history is more global in nature while the UK survivors guide is written with Europe as the focus.
BOTH books state the Soviets were the first to use them, however in Europe NATO fired first, although that was still AFTER the Soviets were already well on the way to turning China to glass.

So the PACT could rightly claim that NATO were the aggressors. Given it was German that invaded Poland in the first place, the PACT technically held the high moral ground, at least in Europe. Meanwhile over in China, the world was breaking out the popcorn and watching two communist countries do their very best to destroy each other.
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  #62  
Old 07-21-2020, 01:42 PM
Benjamin Benjamin is online now
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They don't actually disagree. The core history is more global in nature while the UK survivors guide is written with Europe as the focus.
BOTH books state the Soviets were the first to use them, however in Europe NATO fired first, although that was still AFTER the Soviets were already well on the way to turning China to glass.

So the PACT could rightly claim that NATO were the aggressors. Given it was German that invaded Poland in the first place, the PACT technically held the high moral ground, at least in Europe. Meanwhile over in China, the world was breaking out the popcorn and watching two communist countries do their very best to destroy each other.
They completely disagree.

“By early July, NATO advanced elements were closing up on the Polish-Soviet frontier in the central region, while continuing the siege of Pact-held Warsaw. The Polish government in exile established its temporary capital in the city of Poznan, and asserted its claim to the pre-1939 Polish borders in the east. In the Far East, Pact forces began major withdrawals all along the front, and the mobile elements of the Chinese Army began a victorious pursuit.
On July 9th, with advanced elements of the 1st German Army on Soviet soil, the Red Army began using tactical nuclear weapons. In the West, they were used sparingly at first, and for the first week were used only against troop concentrations no further than 50 kilometers from the Soviet border. In the Far
East, however, they were used on a massive scale. Chinese mechanized columns were vaporized, caught in the open on the roads in imagined pursuit.“ - Twilight 2000 Referee’s Manual, page 25

“IntheFar East,theChineselaunchedamajoroffensiveinthe summer.The6thDivisionwasattachedtoChineseforcesdri ving towards northeastChina. InJuly, it was transferredto the 31stArmy and linked up with the Americans on the Yalu River soon after. At this time, the Sino-Soviet nuclear exchange began, and the divisiontookheavylossesfromseveraltacticalnuclears trikes. Thesurvivorswerewithdrawn, insurprisinglygoodorder, tosouth- ern China.
As August arrived, BAOR was forced to switch to the defensive. Soviet forces were attemptingto relieveWarsaw, and NATOforces to the north and south of BAOR's theater were conducting mobile defensive withdrawals. On15September, theSoviet7thGuards Tank Army broke through to Warsaw. First Corps began a fierce withdrawal action in a desperate attempt to stop the Soviets, but itwastooheavilyoutnumberedandwaspushedback. By the end of September, NATO began to use tactical nuclear weapons to stop the Soviets. The Soviets replied by using their own nuclear weapons.“ - Survivors Guide to the United Kingdom, page 8 (sorry but the old scanned PDFs don’t copy-paste well.

So, Survivors Guide has the Asian nuke use first, in July, with nuclear release in the West occurring about 2 months later. Furthermore, first use in the European Theater is now initiated by NATO. These are major differences.

One can argue whether the West German offensive (I only use V1 because in reality there was pretty much no way for the Soviet Union to keep Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary as allies post 1990.) was aggression by NATO. My take is, based upon what we know from real history is that to hold East Germany there were some major bloodbaths as the Soviets cracked down on East German protestors. West German military units may have crossed the IGB first but they most certainly had the moral high ground. Furthermore, the Soviets expanded the war in mid-November by invading Norway. This should have triggered full NATO participation but even then the US led portion of NATO refrained until early December. I can understand French reluctance to assist in a forceful reunification of Germany but I cannot fault the countries that moved against the Soviet Union either.
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