RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-13-2009, 08:51 AM
General Pain's Avatar
General Pain General Pain is offline
...not exactly open casket material
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tiger City
Posts: 1,953
Send a message via MSN to General Pain
Default Player Character Deaths

I thought a discussion on this could be in order....I'm kind determing the value of a well-played and designed character with a good story behind it and the value of ,well, a dead character...

Some GMs out there (you know who you are) snuff their players on a whim and others can't stand the thought of players dying...

your thoughts...
__________________
The Big Book of War - Twilight 2000 Filedump Site
Guns don't kill people,apes with guns do.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-13-2009, 08:59 AM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,603
Default

I have no problem with PCs dying but I find that in my current campaign the PCs of certain players have a much higher death rate than others. The player of Major Po is still on his first character. My brother is onto his second character. The player of Po's XO Lt Cdr Jones is on his third character. The player of Lt Cdr Black is onto his... fifth character? Maybe sixth? I can't remember for sure but his characters seem to die regularly. I think it has a lot to do with player style. The player of Major Po is a highly intelligent, crafty bugger. Hence Po's longevity I think.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:02 AM
cavtroop cavtroop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central, GA
Posts: 233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Pain
I thought a discussion on this could be in order....I'm kind determing the value of a well-played and designed character with a good story behind it and the value of ,well, a dead character...

Some GMs out there (you know who you are) snuff their players on a whim and others can't stand the thought of players dying...

your thoughts...
When I GM (which is hardly ever nowadays), I play it by ear. If the PC/player does something stupid, overlooks something very obvious, or plain makes a horrid decision, I'll have no qualms killing them.

Generally if its something out of the PC's control I'll generally let it slide, though I will usually take the worst possible result not resulting in death. Sometimes though I'll let it slide completely, if the player is playing especially well/in character, or the PC is really well fleshed out with a strong background, etc and dies on the first mission.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2009, 01:13 AM
Mohoender's Avatar
Mohoender Mohoender is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Near Cannes, South of France
Posts: 1,653
Default

No problem killing PCs but that is not a rule.

If a player, even facing almost certain death, comes up with a great idea and acts in a tremendous way I would not have him killed unless there are no other way.

In regular situation, death is always close.

If a player get painful (in some way; choose which one ), He'll be quickly killed and he 'll find out that someone can be killed by a stone dropping from the sky in the middle of a flat desert. Actually, he'll have a good chance to face a platoon of T-90 supported by heavy artillery while having only a single empty pistol.

To give you an idea, I end up with dead character even when I GM starwars.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2009, 02:25 AM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,603
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoender
To give you an idea, I end up with dead character even when I GM starwars.
But in Star Wars even death doesn't end the roleplaying opportunities. You just turn up as a glowing blue dude from time to time (such as Ewok victory celebrations and the like).
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:13 AM
kato13's Avatar
kato13 kato13 is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, Il USA
Posts: 3,460
Send a message via ICQ to kato13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan
You just turn up as a glowing blue dude from time to time (such as Ewok victory celebrations and the like).
Ah a fate worse than death, gotcha.

Last edited by kato13; 07-14-2009 at 05:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:19 AM
Caradhras Caradhras is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 135
Default

With my present campaign there have been no deaths yet, finished the Polish stuff from Kalitz to B Madonna/Going Home including a fair bit of my own thrown in and they have done Lone Star Red Star and presently on Gateway to the Spanish Main. Ok, there have been a few times a char has been in hospital equivilent for extended stays including a few close shaves, one char having a severely disfigured face where half his jaw was shot off

I have followed the rules to the letter and as such eventually one of them is going to get unlucky - it will pose a problem for me though as they have buil considerable experience and a replacement char is going to be weak in comparison (I hate giving a player a boosted new char to fit). Not sure how I will deal with it tbh.

In all RPGs I have played the element of death/risk has to be ever present....or it will be boring.

I remember once running a Rolemaster campaign in Middle-Earth where the PCs were sacking a village, this imba PC was slaying all and sundry in his mithril armour and magical sword when a peasant with a lump of wood crushes his skull...dead. It took like 3 or 4 consecutive rolls of 96-00 on % dice but - hey , sh*t happens
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:35 AM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,603
Default

My players know full well that Gunmaster is a deadly system and a single stray bullet can end things very quickly for their characters. Most of them now play their characters with extreme sneakiness and efficiency. It makes me proud to see it because only one of them other than myself has any RL military experience - and he is the one who has had five of his characters die. He tends to play with a very gung ho style though and I have to admit all but one of his character deaths were heroic and spectacular.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-14-2009, 06:00 AM
Rainbow Six's Avatar
Rainbow Six Rainbow Six is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,545
Default

Whilst I haven't played for years, when I did death was part of the game. Whilst I didn't purposely go out of my way to kill characters, if it happened it happened. The other characters grieved then moved on. And the dead character's player would generally enjoy the challenge of creating a new character, incoroprating that character into the group, etc.

I did once have a player who wanted his character killed off as he felt that his character had grown stale and had no room for further development.

Also, I found that if players knew that potentially their character could die, it discouraged them from trying really dumb stunts.
__________________
Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-14-2009, 06:15 AM
Fusilier Fusilier is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bangkok (I'm Canadian)
Posts: 566
Default

I'm somewhere in the middle regarding PC death.

I don't like players thinking they can't die in my games - since they eventually start taking ridiculously unrealistic brave/insane actions in combat. And it usually saps the challenge out of everything... kind of like once you start using cheat codes on video games.

On the other hand, when it comes to my online game, with only a post every 2 days it takes forever to get much done. Before you get past a couple days of game time, I'm thinking the players have become quite attached to their characters. I fear allowing them to be killed would discourage them from playing.

Therefore, I usually give everyone one chance where instead of taking a devastating wound, they slip by. Once that freebie is used up, I try to be as honest as possible but its hard.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:24 AM
Adm.Lee Adm.Lee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,318
Default

It's been a while since I ran T2k/M2k, but I used to be a "let the dice fall"-style GM. That led to me offing two PCs for guys in the first fight of their first session. One guy even took a head-shot from the first shot of the NPCs. Funny, they never came back to play again.

In more recent games, not T2k, I've fudged dice to save PCs when it wasn't their fault for dying, especially when it's new players and the player has invested effort in the character's personality. More experienced players who've been hogging the spotlight AND leaving the party stranded while charging the enemy alone, not so much.
__________________
My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:18 AM
General Pain's Avatar
General Pain General Pain is offline
...not exactly open casket material
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tiger City
Posts: 1,953
Send a message via MSN to General Pain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan
But in Star Wars even death doesn't end the roleplaying opportunities. You just turn up as a glowing blue dude from time to time (such as Ewok victory celebrations and the like).
horrible.....
__________________
The Big Book of War - Twilight 2000 Filedump Site
Guns don't kill people,apes with guns do.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:04 PM
weswood weswood is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baytown Tx
Posts: 550
Default

It's been years since I GM'd a game of any type, but I try to keep PCs alive unless they take stupid risks. Or if the player themself is anoying.

My very first character in my very first RPG got killed 5 minutes into the game. I thought, I spent 30 minutes rolling dice for this crap?????
__________________
Just because I'm on the side of angels doesn't mean I am one.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:14 PM
Cdnwolf's Avatar
Cdnwolf Cdnwolf is offline
The end is nigh!!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,452
Default

In the new TW 2013 system then have some called survival points based on age, etc. You get an allotment of them and can use them to modify an attack roll, less the severity of a hit on your self or even give a bonus to a skill attempt roll.

Quote:
The world of Twilight: 2013 is a harsh and unforgiving one.
Most of the planet’s population died in the events of the last three
years. Those who remain had some natural advantage, be it skill,
preparation, or blind luck. Survival points (SPs) represent this
latter quality, giving players a last-ditch mechanism with which to
mitigate the impact of unfavorable die rolls.
(Above quote - copyright of 93 Games Studio)
__________________
*************************************
Each day I encounter stupid people I keep wondering... is today when I get my first assault charge??
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-15-2009, 05:21 AM
Mohoender's Avatar
Mohoender Mohoender is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Near Cannes, South of France
Posts: 1,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan
But in Star Wars even death doesn't end the roleplaying opportunities. You just turn up as a glowing blue dude from time to time (such as Ewok victory celebrations and the like).
For that, you must be a powerful Jedi and those are long gone memory. Anyway, in my last campaign, my PCs failed and the Empire won over the Rebels.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-15-2009, 07:51 AM
Caradhras Caradhras is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 135
Default

Dark endings are far more memorable.

I ran a looong AD+D campaign (original edition)where the chars got eventually to virtual demi-god status (lvl18 etc) and were effectively unplayable. Therefore, as the mythos of their world was Norse, they ended up fighting in the last battle of Ragnarok alongside their Gods against the evil Gods and their minions. All died heroic deaths :P
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-15-2009, 07:55 AM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,603
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caradhras
Therefore, as the mythos of their world was Norse, they ended up fighting in the last battle of Ragnarok alongside their Gods against the evil Gods and their minions. All died heroic deaths :P
Cool. Nicely appropriate.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-15-2009, 10:56 AM
headquarters's Avatar
headquarters headquarters is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norways weather beaten coasts
Posts: 1,825
Default fight for survival

I have sympathy for both views - but in the end I guess PCs have to go out hard.

If not , the challenge is sapped as someone said , and my energy as a GM as well.

The tree of a good campaign has to be replenished by the blood of PCs and NPCs from time to time..

But rather than fudge ( been there done that ) ,just level th eodds by attacking them with a squad rather than a platoon etc .

Then when they face overwhelming odds it should tense them up nicely .

I have a conundrum with General Pains char- they are so long in the campsign setting that killing them will be a sad session indeed.

But rather one sad session than 100 boring ones.I have to play for something in a way ...

Gen Pain - if you go you go..you should count yourself more than lucky to have made it this far..more than 30 sessions..its a record of sorts.

next one up - I say he fights cunningly and bravely or he dosent make it .

pLus a bit of luck of course

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-15-2009, 02:58 PM
General Pain's Avatar
General Pain General Pain is offline
...not exactly open casket material
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tiger City
Posts: 1,953
Send a message via MSN to General Pain
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by headquarters
I have sympathy for both views - but in the end I guess PCs have to go out hard.

If not , the challenge is sapped as someone said , and my energy as a GM as well.

The tree of a good campaign has to be replenished by the blood of PCs and NPCs from time to time..

But rather than fudge ( been there done that ) ,just level th eodds by attacking them with a squad rather than a platoon etc .

Then when they face overwhelming odds it should tense them up nicely .

I have a conundrum with General Pains char- they are so long in the campsign setting that killing them will be a sad session indeed.

But rather one sad session than 100 boring ones.I have to play for something in a way ...

Gen Pain - if you go you go..you should count yourself more than lucky to have made it this far..more than 30 sessions..its a record of sorts.

next one up - I say he fights cunningly and bravely or he dosent make it .

pLus a bit of luck of course

hmmm...this does not look good....I have a bad feeling.....

23 days to next session......

Luckily I'm gonna GM my Merc Campaign.....gonna be som serious hurt the next time...the time for punishment has arrived.......ohhh..did I "say" that out loud.....forget about it...it's gonna be the normal stroll in the park ....you know the park with the vengeful assasin squads, minefields, drugoverdoses, medical resaearch, backstabbing,snipers nests,mishaps of unspeakable nature, drownings, flamethrower accidents, flat tires, chemical spills, skin burns, knifefights, broken bones, loss of hope and a whole bunch of cash to the survivor....I mean survivors....or do I?
__________________
The Big Book of War - Twilight 2000 Filedump Site
Guns don't kill people,apes with guns do.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-16-2009, 03:29 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sant Sadurni d'Anoia, Catalunya
Posts: 672
Default

As it has been said before, the risk of loosing the character must be a clear and present danger. As a general assumption, if the player feels the risk for his/her character, he/she will act consequently. The player will take precautions, or not, at his/her own choice. But in a somewhat unspoken agreement, if the general background depicted by the GM is a dangerous or suspicious one, the player assumes the risk and the consequences of any future actions and plans in that background. Doing this, in my opinion, the impact of an eventually dead is softened.

Of course all those absurd and arbitrary deaths which are so abundant in any conflict must be avoided. A paratrooper drowned in a well after a Catastrophic Failure in the Parachute check and before the beginning of the mission could be very realistic. But it’s a role reserved for a NPC.

While running a game as a GM, I don’t fix the dice rolls that put I danger character lives for the simple reason that I would be very disappointed, as a player, if I noticed that all my heroic deeds and all those escapes from a certain dead are a trick of the GM.

The players must rely on the fact that the GM is acting consequently to the rules and to the roles of the NPCs. In that way, when the character manages survive another difficult situation the player could feel satisfied and sure about his/her merits. And any death in the group (thought sorry by both the players and the GM) only contribute to increase the sense of the epic among the survivors.



BTW.Tomorrow I have a T2K roleplaying session, as a GM, with the group that is recovering the bargues of Torun in "The Wild Bunch" way. http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=873

The players knew the risks of their and voluntary assumed them. Most probably tomorrow some of their characters will die. But, who am I to steal them a moment of glory?
__________________
L'Argonauta, rol en catalŕ
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
POLL: - Player Style General Pain Twilight 2000 Forum 23 07-19-2015 01:09 PM
Non-Player Characters natehale1971 NH1971 - Red Diamond (T2k) 0 06-29-2009 01:03 AM
Player Character List General Pain GP - General Discussion 10 01-30-2009 05:58 AM
Player Slaying. General Pain GP - General Discussion 8 01-08-2009 03:32 AM
Player vs. Player Campaign Raellus Twilight 2000 Forum 11 10-13-2008 02:01 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.