OT: Military Coup in Turkey

[Louied]

Military says they have taken over the country. Seems the Turkish Military hasn't forgot that Ataturk made them the ultimate guardians of the Turkish State.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Ergodan's calling shenanigans on the military; he's back in the airport in Istanbul. Seems like a dud.

Pity; while the stress and divisiveness is bad, pushing the nation back towards a secular state was an admirable goal. Ergodan's a fundamentalist, and that's a bad thing.

[Matt Wiser]

They should've read the book How to Stage a Military Coup. The plotters should've arrested Ergodan, his Prime Minister, Cabinet, and supporters in Parliament first thing. Then you put the tanks in the streets. Lesson learned: this one failed, but if there's a next time......

[Louied]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

They should've read the book How to Stage a Military Coup. The plotters should've arrested Ergodan, his Prime Minister, Cabinet, and supporters in Parliament first thing. Then you put the tanks in the streets. Lesson learned: this one failed, but if there's a next time......

Exactly !! Either that or otherwise 'disposed of'. You can almost put on your tinfoil hat and say this might have been set-up by Edrogan to facilitate his complete takeover. Whatever it is we may have just seen the last of Ataturk's Turkey.

[aspqrz]

Yes, Erdogan is bad news, democratically elected or not. He is turning Turkey inexorably into a one party state with himself as supreme leader ... and it is a worry that he is an islamist, though not (obviously, or not so at the moment) in to the same degree as ISIS, Al Quaeda or, heck, even the Ayatollahs in Iran.

Modernism dominates the cities (largely thanks to Ataturk), but the countryside is still backwards ... one wonders whether there will be many more, if any, democratic elections in Turkey as long as he is in power.

Not that military rule would necessarily be better ...

Soldiers, generally speaking, have a piss poor record whenever they seize control of governments.

Phil

[LBraden]

Well the Turkish military has in the past been, more effective shall we say than other military juntas, normally only holding onto power for the shortest possible time.

However, what concerns me is that today it's already come out that he had a list of 6,000 known "collaborators" with this revolt ... within 48h and he already has the list of known people, that sets of my bullshit meter more than UK election season.

[RN7]

This "Colonel's Coup" was probably the worst planned in history. It really is hard to know what exactly went on in Turkey during all of this. There is talk of Erdogan having planned it to eliminate all opposition and pursue an Islamist agenda in Turkey. I don't know if that was the case but Erdogan is now starting to piss of America by demanding that Fethullah Gullen be extradited from the US. Judging by the current reaction of Western countries there certainly is some suspicion about Erdogan and his motives. Turkey is now been threatened with NATO suspension if Erdogan's purge of Turkey's military and political apparatus continues.

NATO suspension may not be such bad news. Although having Turkey in NATO during the Cold War was important given its proximity to the Soviet Union and the Middle East, it has very little in common with other NATO members being a Muslim country with a dreadful human rights record. It has also had a toxic relationship with Greece for a century, and new NATO members in the Balkans do not like the Turks. The Turkish military does also not quite live up to the hype being said about it. Its not very well trained and heavily reliant on US and German support, although the Turks have tried to diversify their arms sources. Turkey has also no chance of now becoming a member of the EU with Erdogan in power, and EU-Turkish relations will only get worse over the refugee crisis. With Britain leaving the EU and basically killing the EU federalist project and Cameron being one of Erdogan's major supporters the Turks know it.

[Raellus]

Not to get all alarmist, but Turkey being expelled from or voluntarily leaving NATO might embolden the Russians to attempt some more territorial expansion in the Black Sea littoral. The two nations have already clashed above Syria, and there've been some nervy moments at sea. Since Turkey was/is a NATO country, Russia I'm sure has been hesitant to provoke a direct military confrontation with the Turks. If/when the threat of NATO intervention is gone, all bets are off. This is a worst case scenario, of course, but wars, even world wars, have started over less.

[LBraden]

Russia has already said that it will strike Turkey if they can prove to the West that Turkey is directly benefiting from Daesh, which if Turkey does get booted out of NATO, well then we know that Russia would move in.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Not to get all alarmist, but Turkey being expelled from or voluntarily leaving NATO might embolden the Russians to attempt some more territorial expansion in the Black Sea littoral. The two nations have already clashed above Syria, and there've been some nervy moments at sea. Since Turkey was/is a NATO country, Russia I'm sure has been hesitant to provoke a direct military confrontation with the Turks. If/when the threat of NATO intervention is gone, all bets are off. This is a worst case scenario, of course, but wars, even world wars, have started over less.

The Turks shot down a Russian fighter not so long ago that allegedly flew over Turkish airspace, and the umbrella of NATO membership stopped the Russians from retaliating. Turkey is also increasing its political influence across the Middle East in a way not seen since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and there are allegations that Turkey has been turning a blind eye to ISIL smuggling operations and the infiltration of refugees from Syria, and certainly Turkey is where most Islamic fanatics from Europe who want to join ISIL travel to first to reach Syria. Erdogan is playing a dangerous game by provoking a country as powerful as Russia and pushing the tolerance of NATO allies with an Islamic agenda and purges of the pro-Western cadre of the Turkish military. It could end up really bad for Turkey if they get booted out of NATO, as no Middle Eastern power is going to aid it if it gets into a war with the Russians, and the Kurds in the eastern half of Turkey will erupt in rebellion. Also Turkey will be facing a hostile Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Croatia who all hate the Turks, and who will be backed by not just the rest of NATO but probably the Russians, Serbs, Armenians and Georgians who have a bad history with the Turks and Islam. Personally I think I would prefer the Russians in control of the Black Sea and Caucasus, as not to many Islamic fanatics will be happy about trying to travel through this region to terrorise Western countries when they know they have to deal with Cossack militias and Spetsnaz.

[Targan]

“I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.” - Kemal Atatürk, the founder of modern Turkey

I find the direction that Erdogan is taking Turkey to be incredibly sad. Atatürk would be turning in his grave.