RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-11-2020, 10:22 PM
Adm.Lee Adm.Lee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,285
Default Adapting to FL's stuff: how to incorporate Sweden?

So, Fria Ligan wants to have Sweden as an active theater in 2000, with Soviet and US (NATO?) troops looking across a no-man's-land. Some of us don't like FL's timeline, but what could we do to adjust the v1 or v2.2 backgrounds to include a Swedish front?

Thinking off the top of my head, we could alter the descriptions of the fighting in Norway in the v1 background. Just add in that the Soviets sought to widen the front or flank the NATO 1997 drive towards Murmansk. Or that NATO did, and the Soviets reinforced so heavily, that NATO forces were driven back.

In the 2000 briefing sheet and Going Home, the formations that NATO had sent to Norway were now in Germany, so those would need to be relocated to Sweden, instead of withdrawn from Norway in '98 or '99. Such as:
US 2nd Marine Division, 6th Light Infantry Division, perhaps some others. ISTR the British 3rd Commando Brigade went to the UK instead?

Thoughts?
__________________
My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-11-2020, 10:59 PM
mpipes mpipes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 239
Default

Here is how Sweden was dragged into the war in my modified timeline -

The repaired USS Enterprise leaves Narvik on the 16th February. Tipped off by a Soviet agent, the Soviets launch an air strike conducted through Swedish airspace. Analysts note that the escorting aircraft this time are long range SU27 Flankers. Sweden intercepts the strike, catching the Soviets by surprise, downing a number of attacking TU22M Backfires as well as Flanker escorts. Although a number of missiles are launched targeting the carrier, all are successfully engaged by the escorting cruisers and frigates or fighters. The Soviets suffer relatively light losses, as they wisely choose to break off the attack rather than risk getting caught in a pincer between Swedish Gripens and U.S. Tomcats. Sweden protests to the Soviet Union against the use of its air space and warns both NATO and the PACT that they intend to aggressively defend their airspace. However, before the end of March, Sweden declares war on the side of NATO as New Pact aircraft and submarines kept repeatedly violating Swedish territorial limits and attacking Swedish shipping. Swedish troops deploy north into the northern front with a few units moving into northern Germany, and Swedish naval forces embark on an aggressive mine laying campaign along the Baltic Coast in PACT waters.

I have never really gave Sweden much more to do. The Soviets had their hands full on other fronts and never mounted major combat ops in Sweden. Swedish ground units were used mostly in defensive operations in Finland (also invaded by Russia and now a NATO ally), Norway, and Germany. The country hosted NATO air units including a F-14 unit and RN and USN anti-submarine assets. Swedish spec ops were active around the Baltic including in Latvia, Poland, and Russia.

That was my take on Sweden in WWIII.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-11-2020, 11:27 PM
pansarskott pansarskott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 30
Default

The Swedish airforce's main cold war task was anti-shipping operations to stop a Soviet invasion. The heaviest attack unit was subordinate to the Supreme Commander, not the head of the air force. The Air Force would be dispersed on an extensive network of road bases.


Strategic coastal areas were fortified with coastal artillery. Fixed and mobile.


A scenario with Swedish troops in Germany feels unlikely, troops in Finland sounds much more likely.

Sweden's official cold war stance was (paraprahsed) "free from alliances in peace, aiming for neutrality in war". However, there was extensive planning for being on NATO's side in a war.

Gotland would be sought after as a forward base area (aircraft and anti-aircraft assets) for both sides.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-12-2020, 12:08 AM
mpipes mpipes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pansarskott View Post
Sweden's official cold war stance was (paraprahsed) "free from alliances in peace, aiming for neutrality in war". However, there was extensive planning for being on NATO's side in a war.
Can anyone confirm that NATO and Sweden had performed joint planning assuming Sweden's role as a NATO ally? I've heard this was done at least informally with plans for NATO to use road network air bases to forward deploy Harriers, F-16s, F-111s, or Tornados. Supposedly, there were specific air units identified to base in Sweden in the late 80s.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-12-2020, 12:15 AM
Vespers War Vespers War is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 217
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpipes View Post
Can anyone confirm that NATO and Sweden had performed joint planning assuming Sweden's role as a NATO ally? I've heard this was done at least informally with plans for NATO to use road network air bases to forward deploy Harriers, F-16s, F-111s, or Tornados. Supposedly, there were specific air units identified to base in Sweden in the late 80s.
The Chicago Tribune reported in 1994 on a paper published by the Swedish government about Sweden's sharing defense plans with Britain starting in 1949, with the understanding that Britain would share them with NATO, with increasing entanglements up to the end of the report period in 1969.
__________________
The poster formerly known as The Dark

The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-12-2020, 03:55 AM
pansarskott pansarskott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 30
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpipes View Post
Can anyone confirm that NATO and Sweden had performed joint planning assuming Sweden's role as a NATO ally?
Official report:
Had there been a war - preparations for the reception of military assistance 1949-1969

Not sure if Tornados, F111s and similar aircraft could use Swedish road bases. Swedish aircraft are designed for road bases (STOL). 800 meter long (short?) runways was part of the road base system, although the main runway for each base area was longer.

Aircraft are not really relevant in T:2000, but maybe some underground fuel tank at some road base still has some AvGas.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-12-2020, 09:23 AM
Lurken Lurken is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 88
Default

In the Nordic I have planned to detail a neutral, but war damaged Sweden. In order to keep in line with the available offical lore.

Due to what is described, Sweden cannot have entered the war fully, but must have reluctantly or mistakenly been pulled into the war by both sides.

Basically, the NATO offensive through northern Finland fails as described in the lore, BUT, retreating US forces get cuts off and forced to retreat through Sweden and the border town of Karesuando, then onwards through Svaapavaara and Kiruna until they reach Narvik. However, tempers flare when one officer refuses to hand over his mother-of-pearl inlaid revolver for safe keeping while in transit. Shots are exchanged in what is later dubbed, "the Massacre at Karesuando". First deaths in Sweden in the Twilight War comes from 5.56 mm NATO rounds.

With Soviets hot on the tail of the americans, things devolve into a short but brutal three-way fight near Kiruna ending in the routing of US forces to Narvik, Soviets stuck in and near Kiruna and Sweden's counter-offensive got bloodied and pushed back by the Soviets.

During that week, there was border skirmishes along the Sweden-Norway border, but in the end a cease-fire was reached between Sweden and NATO, and with NATO being technically the initial aggressors the Soviets/Soviet commander in Kiruna brokered a deal that they will stay put for now and act like a buffer against Narvik. To much wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Swedes. But... Sweden did not and could not act due to it being political suicide. Since they saw how destructive this war is and was.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-12-2020, 11:05 AM
pansarskott pansarskott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 30
Default

Some more info on Sweden's cooperation with NATO (Google translate)

I see confrontation between identified Swedish and NATO units as very unlikely. The "let's shoot at each other and then be friends" in V4 doesn't make sense.

Soviet goals in Sweden would depend on their overall goals, e.g.;
Taking control of the Baltic Approaches
Going through northern or middle Sweden to get to Norway.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.