SOF in T2K

[natehale1971]

all of the SOF guys i met, had said that rank didn't matter when out in the field on a mission. The person with the skills needed at that moment was the one in the lead. And that's how we always ran our groups... the person with the best 'hands on' knowledge would be the one in charge. The highest ranking member would be in charge when NOT in combat, they'd basicly be in charge of making sure we had food, water, ammo, shelter and the like. Basicly like the 2LT is in command of a platoon, but the Platoon Sergeant is the one who does the heavy lifting!

[Abbott Shaull]

That the concept that for many non-SOF personnel to wrapped their head around. The Senior man is basically in charge while not in the field and for admin purpose, but once you get in the field who ever has the strongest knowledge of that supported the missions the best would be in charge. It is one of the things traditional Officers and in cases senior NCOs have trouble with at time when they go to such units.

The best way to explain is when new 2nd Lts or Ensigns are get to their first duty assignment it quite a shock to some when they learn until they are told, they are 'consult' their senior NCO first before making any 'decision'. Then again for most senior NCOs it didn't matter if the 2nd Lt came from West Point, ROTC, or OCS they were treated equally and lord help you if you had been E-6 or higher and been through OCS. It was the OCS trained officers were suppose to know better than make certain mistakes that other Officers were bound to make.

In the tradition units this is the only time career of for Officers where they are in charge in title only. When they screw up, the senior NCO still gets a reaming for allowing the Officer doing something so stupid, even if said NCO was no where near said Officer when they screwed up.

Even when the Officer raise above the Platoon Leader position the senior NCOs they have become more and more 'advisor' types. Yet, in most case the unwritten rule is that they are to prevent them from screwing up to much.

As state in the SOF community, once in the field the Officer and Warrant Officer and all enlisted are trained to take orders from the person designate to be in charge of a particular mission.

[dragoon500ly]

To the credit of most officers when they first join the service, they do realize that the young Spec-4 often haves more experience than the new "butter-bar" does. Its those handful of "special" officers, you know, the ones who know that their excrement does not reek, that make life soooo intresting!

I don't recall every serving with a mustang officer that was bad. Its like serving as an NCO increased thier IQ by 200-300 points (LOL!!!).

[Abbott Shaull]

I agree for the most part the new 2nd Lt from West Point or ROTC after their training did realize that for the most that even the companies newest Specialist 4 knew more about thing than they did. Many had been told repeatedly during their training to listen to their senior NCOs, for they are their to make sure you don't make mistake that make them look bad.

Yes, the mustang Officers seemed to have their shit together quite well. Otherwise they would of never made it to OCS, also from what I seen they usually were fast tracked to 1st Lts because for the most part they had already done most of their mistake raising through ranks or had seen others make the mistakes they never told themselves they would never make.

Yes the problem children who had trouble smelling their own feces because they had grown use to the smell over the years. The non-surprising thing was the fact that many of these Officer usually didn't make far in leadership roles and could spend a career with luck in staff roles.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

all of the SOF guys i met, had said that rank didn't matter when out in the field on a mission. The person with the skills needed at that moment was the one in the lead. And that's how we always ran our groups... the person with the best 'hands on' knowledge would be the one in charge. The highest ranking member would be in charge when NOT in combat, they'd basicly be in charge of making sure we had food, water, ammo, shelter and the like. Basicly like the 2LT is in command of a platoon, but the Platoon Sergeant is the one who does the heavy lifting!

Nate,

Not really news to me, and hey, it makes sense. In my own game, that's certainly been the usual pattern. There is a Lt. Colonel in command of the unit, but basically lets the unit senior NCOs (a bunch of Sergeants) run the show tactically while she takes care of the logistical end, interfaces with the high command and local community, and keeps the unit on-mission be defining the objectives. (She's also an NPC, and can fade into the background a little too much, which is probably fine with the players as they are allowed a freer hand.)

I was more just looking for a particular rule in some adventure about how ad hoc player groups could be somewhat formalised at some point.


Overall, I'm reminded of Master Corporal Erin Doyle, killed in combat in Afghanistan in 2008.

The first time I saw him, he was quite literally presiding over a meeting between two sets of patrol leaders—one captain and one sergeant—during a long and arduous hike in the deep outback of western Panjwai.

The captain and sergeant would make plans, then kind of quietly look up at Doyle. With a headshake and a grunt, he’d torpedo their idea and they’d go back to the map. This went on for half an hour or more, as gunfire and explosions rippled overhead. With his rank obscured by his gear—his battle rattle—I assumed he was a warrant officer or maybe the company sergeant major, based solely on the deference and respect he received from the other soldiers, many of whom I knew to be cynics of the first order.

http://www.legionmagazine.com/en/ind...of-erin-doyle/

Getting back to T2K, in the past I've been in at least a few games (T2K in particular but also Recon, or wherever you have a rank structure) where the "rank game" has been played, even taken advantage of by some. I guess the attitude by some commander PCs is "it's good to be king" and they don't much listen to their NCOs or take their advice. That doesn't mean they're wrong or are bad leaders as such, and of course this may just be the way the PC is being played, not the way the player would otherwise personally act themselves. While I can't say that this necessarily applies to any game I'm currently in, I'm sure we've all been there. Hack, I'm sure I've played that officer who's excrement doesn't smell some time in the past!

Tony