Stupid GI Tricks

[dragoon500ly]

While cleaning out the ole storage shed, I came across a box of old journals that I had maintained while serving in the Green Machine from 1977-1987...its a collection of things that I had witnessed, thought it would be good for a laugh!

While on a field exercise at Hohenfels, we had a platoon get lost. For those who have never been to the there, right in the middle of the maneuver area is a rather tall hill capped with the ruins of and old castle. Needless to say, if you keep that landmark on one hand, you will eventually arrive at the main post. It was also a favorite assembly area prior to moving back to the motor pool.

Our fearless Second Lieutenant was fresh out of ROTC and was convinced that because he was a "Butter Bar", that the NCOs of his platoon had nothing to teach him.

Picture the company commander sitting in his jeep, on top of Castle Hill, watching the platoon drive around and around the hill, while the platoon leader, had his map spread out all over the coupola of his M-60A1.

Our Captain would come up on the radio net and ask the platoon their ETA and was assured by the Lieutenant that he was five minutes out. After almost an hour of watching this, the Captain comes up on the net and orders the platoon to halt. He then asks for the location of the platoon. After the Lieutenant gives a grid (32km off), the Captain asks the Lieutenant to stand up and look to his left, and did the Lieutenant see the CO waving at him?

Yes Virginia, the most dangerous weapon known to man, is a Second Lieutenant with a map!

[pmulcahy11b]

Yes Virginia, the most dangerous weapon known to man, is a Second Lieutenant with a map!

We used to say the most dangerous thing was a 2LT with a map, a weapon, and a plan...

[Webstral]

You guys are so tempting fate. Do you want another tirade from me about the evils of the commissioning system as it exists today?

Webstral

[Adm.Lee]

I have a similar "virtual" story. When I was in ROTC, one of my classmates was having a terrible time with learning map-grids. Our instructor pretty much had to repeat everything at least twice for him. A week or so later, that guy & I went to see "Platoon"* (that should give you an idea how long before GPS this was). During the scene in which the LT is fumbling with the map and radio under fire, I got to poke poor Steve in the ribs. :) A lot. :D He nearly punched me in the face!

* It might have been "Hamburger Hill?"

That was a sad, sad class, as far as the Army was concerned. There were only 4 in my class-- 2 of them didn't want to commit after 2 years, and the other 2 of us were medically disqualified.

[pmulcahy11b]

That was a sad, sad class, as far as the Army was concerned. There were only 4 in my class-- 2 of them didn't want to commit after 2 years, and the other 2 of us were medically disqualified.

Did it happen to be 1986?

[dragoon500ly]

We used to say the most dangerous thing was a 2LT with a map, a weapon, and a plan...

While stationed at Fort Hood, got to take part in a map-ex run by the 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division (that's right! I got to walk message forms from one table to another!! :D) The Brigade S-3 was excited because part of the map-ex was to use a tactical nuke to destroy an enemy regiment.

The highlight of the map-ex was the S-3 personally plotting the target location for the tac nuke...

The Brigade Commander calmly watched the whole process and when it came time for him to request release of the nuke, asked the S-3 "Have you confirmed the target location?"

"Yes Sir!"

"You do realize that the grid that you gave is the location of our headquarters?"

[dragoon500ly]

You guys are so tempting fate. Do you want another tirade from me about the evils of the commissioning system as it exists today?

Webstral

There's nothing wrong with Second Lieutenants, you just feed them, groom them and walk them a couple of times a day and they make great pets!

And never, ever, ever feed them after midnight!

;)

[dragoon500ly]

While serving with the old 2ACR in Germany, I got the chance to serve as a gunner on a IP M-1. This was the first gunnery exercise that we did after reequipping with the Abrams, and while we had all completed the conversion training, experience was sadly lacking.

While firing the Table VIII night gunnery, we had some problems with the weather, a typical Grafenwoher nighttime fog. But not to worry! We had the new thermal sights and the targets had just been refitted with hot air blowers, they should show up great!

Right!?!

When it came time for our turn on the stationary firing range, the fog was so heavy that you could not see the front of the turret from the hatches. And in the gunners seat...nothing could be seen. Finally, Range Control raised all the targets and turned the hot air blowers to maximum.

And nothing could be seen.

Finally, a dim blotch showed up on the thermal and with a great cry of glee, the tank commander yelled "FIRE!"

I pulled the triggers and watched the target explode into pieces. The only thing that I could think of was that I had hit the generator and had splattered burning fuel everywhere.

Needless to say, Range Control was screaming "Cease Fire" and that was the end of the gunnery program for the night.

The next morning, we found out what I had shot. I had nailed a boar, with a 105mm training HEAT round, 150 meters from the tank.

Yup! I had killed my pig, gutted and skinned it and cooked and served it all over the range!

And since boars are a protected species, I got to fill out about 25kg of forms for the German Forestry Service!

[Webstral]

The next morning, we found out what I had shot. I had nailed a boar, with a 105mm training HEAT round, 150 meters from the tank.

Yup! I had killed my pig, gutted and skinned it and cooked and served it all over the range!

Nice shootin', Tex!


Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

While stationed at Fort Hood, got to take part in a map-ex run by the 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division (that's right! I got to walk message forms from one table to another!! :D) The Brigade S-3 was excited because part of the map-ex was to use a tactical nuke to destroy an enemy regiment.

The highlight of the map-ex was the S-3 personally plotting the target location for the tac nuke...

The Brigade Commander calmly watched the whole process and when it came time for him to request release of the nuke, asked the S-3 "Have you confirmed the target location?"

"Yes Sir!"

"You do realize that the grid that you gave is the location of our headquarters?"

That reminds me of an exercise we did in Korea. Unbeknownst to us a Special Forces team was taking part in the exercise. They had full TOC identification, waltzed right into the field TOC carrying large bags -- and a couple of hours after they left, the G-2 got a phone call to check the underside of the TOC truck he was in. There was a simulated tactical nuclear device there, and somehow, no one had seen the SF team plant it even though the truck in question was in the middle of the TOC area and they used full simulated procedures to plant it.

Sometimes, you can get a long way just by acting like you belong there.

[Targan]

You guys are so tempting fate. Do you want another tirade from me about the evils of the commissioning system as it exists today?

Webstral

That depends. Do you think Eddie is reading this thread? :sagrin:

[TiggerCCW UK]

Two quick ones from my own experience;

When I was a cadet with the 1st Ulster Marine Cadets we entered a team into the NISAM (Northern Ireland Skill at Arms Meet), which was a big competition involving representatives from from all units based in NI at the time. As the troubles were still in full swing then this gave a very broad range of units, as all services, plus the TA and cadets attended. One of the years we were there it was interesting to see the locally recruited TA field ambulance unit out shoot the paras :-)

The second one involves a pop at junior officers again (sorry to all the Lt's and 2 Lt's out there). A friend of mine who will remain nameless (as she is now a serving regular officer) had a few issues with radios on an excercise - the conversation went something like this;

'Bravo alpha, this is bravo charlie, are you receiving, over'

Pause for reply, when none is forthcoming,

'Bravo alpha, this is bravo charlie, are you receiving, over'

Pause again, then turns to senior officer.

'Sir they aren't responding'

Senior officer replies

'Maybe they don't have their radio on'

My friend then displayed some awesome initiative by transmitting

'Bravo alpha, this is bravo charlie, please turn your radio on'


:D:D:D

[B.T.]

Great one, Tigger!
:D:D:D

[Adm.Lee]

Did it happen to be 1986?

Shortly after-- I started at Allegheny in '86, so I think the map/movie episode was the following spring? IMDB says the movie was released in December of '86, so it was likely in early '87, then.

[dragoon500ly]

Nice shootin', Tex!


Webstral

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has nailed a boar with a bigger gun!

[pmulcahy11b]

Shortly after-- I started at Allegheny in '86, so I think the map/movie episode was the following spring? IMDB says the movie was released in December of '86, so it was likely in early '87, then.

After four years of not losing any cadets before graduation, in 1986 we lost 8 cadets from a combination of medical, in one case age (she was 30), and one guy who had a pronounced Grenadan accent (though he was perfectly understandable). Apparently, big losses among cadet corps were endemic that year throughout the country. I could never convince Third Region that I did not have high blood pressure, despite two physicals and dozens of BP readings. ( I got a couple of high readings at Advanced Camp because I was doing it on a badly sprained ankle.) I enlisted as soon as I graduated from high school, but we had already taken our final exams in ROTC and were only three weeks away from graduation.

It's all good. I would have made a lousy officer -- I hate politics.

[dragoon500ly]

For those of us who have been stationed at Fort Hood, I'm sure that you all remember how Manning Mountain sticks right out of the maneuver area. Highest elevation on post and, needless to say, a fairly unmistakeable landmark.

While test flying the latest AH-1S, a 6th Air Cavalry Combat Bridgade pilot flew right into the side of Manning Mountain. The crew were dinged up, but the bird was, errrr, toast.

The next day, while the accident inspection team was surving the wreck, another AH-1S, flown by the company commander, flew into Manning Mountain, less than 100 meters from the crash site!

The lesson learned form this, you should always maintain enough attitude when sight-seeing!

[Jason Weiser]

Ah,
Picture it. Fort Pickett, VA, 1995. (Yeah, a lot of my stories are either Ft. Pickett or Knox). We young impressionable ROTC cadets are out on a STRAC lane. Well, we're supposed to be reacting to a far ambush. Ok, fine, we know what to do and when to do it. Well, one thing we didn't consider? There'd been a drought that summer. Everything was as dry as the damned Sahara. Well, ok, we make contact with the OPFOR, and blanks are going off everywhere. Our squad leader asks the TAC for smoke, so he pops smoke...next thing we know, there's a good sized fire (bigger than a weenie roast, we're talking Battle of the Wilderness-light) coming right at the OPFOR. They come running out screaming "We surrender, do over, do over!" We spent a good twenty minutes putting out the fire and all agreeing (including Captain Sutton, the TAC) that NOBODY was going to mention it.

That same FTX, we have another STRAC lane, I'm a fireteam leader and our job is to recon a OFPOR position. So, we get fairly close to what I am sure are the OPFOR (I'd seen them putting on grey tunics with red "shoulderboards" in the parking lot). Somebody in my fireteam turns to me and says "Hey Weiser, you sure they're the enemy?"

My response? I turn to him with a look of surely your mother didn't raise you this dumb and said "Gee, I dunno, why don't you go up and ask them, and I'll wait here and see what happens.":D

[dragoon500ly]

While on REFORGER, my cavalry squadron was getting its collective tail handed to it by the Canadians. After a week of their Leopards running circles around our M113s, We had a three day admin halt, and watched the Canucks park their tanks just down the road from us. We watched them finish their maintenance and then settle down for a well-earned nights sleep. My evil TC asked for a couple of volunteers for a little extra NBC training. Regardless of my normal values (What! Me volunteer?) I raised my hand. We waited until just after 2400 hours and took a stroll upwind of the Canadas, along with two cases of CS grenades.........and the rest is history!

Never forget to sleep with your gas mask handy...the US Cavalry may be lurking nearby!!!

[pmulcahy11b]

Ahh, yes, the fun of firing an M-202A1 Flash on a dry IRL range -- and then having to call the base fire department out, who were not happy about having to fight a WP/grass fire. We did get to see the sight of flaming bats flying out of the bunker at the end of the range, though. Memories...we burned that whole damn range away, and the fire nearly got to the firing line and the trees at the other end of the range.

[Legbreaker]

It's not just junior officers who can screw things up!

While at Canungra, arguably the toughest training area in Australia (Tully is the other option), we were treated to a firepower demonstration by the training staff of the Jungle Warfare Centre - almost all of which where VERY senior NCOs and most having served in Vietnam.
All was going well, with machineguns, grenades, banks of claymores, and AT weapons tearing up the ground on the other side of the small, and extremely dry valley. Needless to say several fires very quickly broke out in the tinder dry grass and bushes and ended up burning out a fair sized chunk of the surrounding hills.

Another exercise a couple of years later resulted in the only time I've ever seen shit roll uphill!
We were several days into a week long exercise which was to culminate in a live fire company attack with Assault Pioneer and Mortar support. This particular day though was all about section attacks. This was done in two parts - a run through on the range with blanks followed a few minutes later by doing it all again with live rounds.
The light was rapidly fading as the last section went through with blanks. A rushed turn around and they were sent off with live ammo, one safety officer strolling along behind for every three men. Within about 15 seconds of the first shots being fired the panicked order to STOP! was given.

Due to the rush, and poor quality of accessories (namely the faulty zipper on the spare barrel bag for the M60), the assistant gunner had neglected to remove his blank firing attachment (BFA) from his rifle, being occupied with helping the gunner change barrels and then tying the bag up with string.

His first round lodged in the heavy BFA on his L1A1 SLR. The safety officer only noticed the bright orange chunk of metal still on the weapon as he was squeezing the trigger for a second, and likely catastrophic shot.

Turns out there were two contradictory manuals covering the use of blank ammo on a live firing range. On allowed it, and the other didn't. Everyone from the safety officers, range officers, permanent range staff, all the way up through battalion, brigade and Division copped a boot in the posterior. Ranks were lost, punishments handed out, resignations submitted.

And our hero, the poor assistant machinegunner? He was found completely innocent and was actually promoted a few months later.

[dragoon500ly]

LOL!

It does seem that the "helpless" private gets away with so much!

I belive that it was General Bradley who maintained that if a Private was left alone in the middle of a desert with only a anvil for company, that if you returned within four hours, the anvil would be broken.

[Adm.Lee]

It's all good. I would have made a lousy officer -- I hate politics.

I'm told (by an enlisted friend or two) that I would have burned out from trying to do good. I suspect they didn't want to tell me that I'm too nice, and I would have been back-stabbed early and often.

[Webstral]

LOL!

It does seem that the "helpless" private gets away with so much!

I belive that it was General Bradley who maintained that if a Private was left alone in the middle of a desert with only a anvil for company, that if you returned within four hours, the anvil would be broken.

...and Joe would maintain that he had no idea how it had happened.

The toughest job in the Army is the job of the team leader. His direct report is Joe. I was so spoiled as an officer by having senior NCOs as my direct reports that it was a shock to go back to the enlisted side of the house and have specialists as my direct reports.

[dragoon500ly]

All too true. Life always seemed so much simpler when you are a Private, the moment you pick up NCO or officer rank...It's like you have become the babysitter, in charge of a couple of dozen 3-year olds, and they are armed!!!!

[bigehauser]

I was running the radio at a qualification day at the range when I was in my unit in Okinawa, Japan. Being an RTO, the job was cake. When I had the antenna, and the radio going, a new 2LT came up to me. He was about 23, or 24. I was 20 at the time. After some bullshit peppy questions that I begrudgingly answered, he said "Atta boy."

Atta boy? Dude, go the fuck away. I have to go make a radio check with Range Control.

[weswood]

All too true. Life always seemed so much simpler when you are a Private, the moment you pick up NCO or officer rank...It's like you have become the babysitter, in charge of a couple of dozen 3-year olds, and they are armed!!!!

Amen, brother! My current peers think I'm crazy for not wanting any responsibility other than myself. I tell them the Corps cured me of that nonsense.

[helbent4]

Never forget to sleep with your gas mask handy...the US Cavalry may be lurking nearby!!!

Lee,

More to the point, the lesson there is also never, ever turn your back on a Yank, even if he's a friend. Especially if he's a friend! ;)

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

Tony...

One should always keep one's friends close...and one's friends even closer!

[dragoon500ly]

During my 2nd enlistment, I was assigned as an instructor to the Armor School at Fort Knox, Kentucky. Teaching the young'ns all about the M-60A1 tank, this happened (thank gawd!) to another company on the tank range.

Some background for those who have never served on a tank.

The M-60A1 uses a ballistic computer, unlike the modern computer on the M-1, the M60's used a series of geared wheels and cams to input the correct adjustment to the gun tube. To operate, you grasped a t-handle and pushed/pulled to index the correct round. The primary reason for the elevation adjustment is that antitank rounds such as the APDS round are high speed, flat-trajectory rounds, whereas rounds such as HEAT or HEP are low speed, high-trajectory rounds. Herein lies our tale...

One young student gunner had finished his assigned rounds and while exiting the gunner's seat, snagged the handle of the computer and pulled the setting from APDS to HEP.

The new gunner, in his excitment, thought that he had checked the computer and had APDS indexed. The loader placed a APDS training round in the tube and the gunner prepared to fire at the 2,000 meter target. The instructor tank commander failed to notice that the gun tube was at a "unusually high" angle and ordered the gunner to "FIRE!"

On a nearby range, I was coaching trainees on the use of the M-85 machinegun and happened to observe the tracer of a main caliber round flying well over the berm and disappearing well down range.

Needless to say, Range Control had a MAJOR hissy fit and shut down all of the ranges while they investigated.

The training sabot impacted 13 miles downrange, striking a Range Control storage shed, penetrating the roof, several stacks of targets, the concrete slab, and burying itself 7 feet into the ground.

The trainee gunner received a major "arse-chewing". The instructor tank commander received an Article 15 from the Training Brigade Commander and went from Staff Sergeant, E-6 to Private, E-1 in about 2.5 seconds.

[helbent4]

Tony...

One should always keep one's friends close...and one's friends even closer!

Lee,

Ha, true!

I don't have any personal stories, but I can pass along one second-hand about a new LT.

A friend of mine was in the local militia unit (the Royal Westminster Regiment, part of the Reserve Force Command) which practices on a regular basis in Washington State at Yakima against regular US Army and National Guard counterparts, including the Rangers based at Ft. Lewis. According to him, the Rangers were the only Enemy Force that ever kicked their butts.

While training against Rangers acting as the Enemy Force, they were ambushed while moving along a road. After breaking contact the new platoon leader's bright idea was to attack again down the same road (instead of trying to flank them) because "...they'll never expect that!"

Apparently, they did. I think he tried the same approach again using the same shaky theory, and it went about as well as the first two times.

Tony

[pmulcahy11b]

Our Bradley transition at Ft. Stewart got quite...eventful one day. Over about an area of four acres, there were almost 40 vehicles stuck in the mud at one point. A Bradley blundered into a mud pit...the platoon leader came to investigate, and got stuck...and so on. Everything from Bradleys to the mortar tracks to the M-88s and M-578s that were set in to recover them got stuck in a huge mud bog. Just about every heavy vehicle in the battalion was stuck at one point, for several hours. We lost a good two days of training from that little incident.

[dragoon500ly]

Our Bradley transition at Ft. Stewart got quite...eventful one day. Over about an area of four acres, there were almost 40 vehicles stuck in the mud at one point. A Bradley blundered into a mud pit...the platoon leader came to investigate, and got stuck...and so on. Everything from Bradleys to the mortar tracks to the M-88s and M-578s that were set in to recover them got stuck in a huge mud bog. Just about every heavy vehicle in the battalion was stuck at one point, for several hours. We lost a good two days of training from that little incident.

Had something similar happen in Germany. While on border patrol, the cavalry is required to move the reaction force off-post at least once. Our 2nd Lieutenant chose to move the reaction force to a mountain top about three klicks back from the border. The two M-113 Dragon tracks moved to the spot, and got stuck in a peat bog (on top of a mountain!?!?!) The M-88 was sent to pull them out, got stuck, a M-578 was sent and it got stuck, four M-1 tanks were sent and each one got stuck. Squadron sent a 5-ton wrecker up, and yup, it got stuck too.

The only way the vehicles got pulled out of the bog, was we connected each vehicle together, and looped about 200 meters of cable around a WWII bunker to anchor and pulled the them out, one by one.

Have to admit, I'd love to seen a battalion stuck in the mud!

[pmulcahy11b]

Have to admit, I'd love to seen a battalion stuck in the mud!

I kept laughing about it during the time, which pissed off my superiors to no end...sometimes you just have to go with the parade.

[dragoon500ly]

Its the only way to keep your sanity! Besides, watching the colonel screaming at the major; the major screaming at the captain; the captain screaming at the lieutenants...and then watching the pretty colors the Lieutenants face turns when the ole Platoon Sergeant turns to him and says "You do realize, sir, that there is no fucking way a 5-ton wrecker is going to pull a 70-ton tank out of the mud?"

[pmulcahy11b]

That's the hardest job of platoon sergeants, First Sergeants, and Sergeants Major -- to make "suggestions" to their less-experienced and less-wise officers. Doesn't always work, though...

[dragoon500ly]

I was serving as a driver on the 36-tank when we got a new butter bar fresh from Armor Officers Basic, after observing this one on the first day, the crew's opinion was that perhaps he had taken a left turn at the Naval Academy and found himself in the wrong service.

This opinion was shared by the CO, because a converstation was overheard after day 3 of this officer's armor career...

"Lieutenant, your Platoon Sergeant is a twelve year veteran of tanks, you haven't even worn the shine off of your first pair of bars! You are to check with your Platoon Sergeant before making anymore decisions."

By the time I rotated stateside, our Lieutenant had turned into one of the best Platoon Leaders in our battalion.

[dragoon500ly]

I've always been proud to have spent a large portion of my career in the Armored Cavalry Regiments, in my humble opinion the ACRS have produced some of the finest NCOs and officers that I have ever seen. Going through my journals, I found a story of one exception...

I was stationed with 3-2 ACR in Amberg, FRG one January when we had the monthly alert sound one frozen morning. While the drivers rushed to the motor pool to get the vehicles started, I went down to the arms room to draw the crew-served and personnel weapons for my tank.

Our protocol for an alert was to dress in MOPP Level III (chemical protective suit and those thrice-damned excuses for rubber boots), flak vest, kevlar and LBE. With all of that, I loaded up with four M1911A1 pistols, one M-16A1, two M-240Cs and the body of a M-2HB and our ammo can holding the firing pin for the 105mm cannon. I then grabbed my ruck and started up the hill to the motor pool. The side walk was covered in the typical German mix of ice and sleet and crowded with troopers, trying to make their way up a 40 degree slope while wearing rubber boots with slick soles.

Our squadron's S-3 was a certain major who had earned the nickname of Major Pitch-a-Bitch. He was truely loved! There was even a betting pool in the squadron on how long he would last in a war, the longest was a bet that someone would frag him within the first five minutes!

Picture our beloved major, standing in the doorway, screaming at the heavily loaded troopers trying to make their way up an ice-covered slope...

And inside that mass of 200+ troopers, a lone trooper earned the undying gratitude of his fellows

"It's easy for you to tell us to run up the fucking hill you stupid son of a bitch!"

[dragoon500ly]

Here's another stupid GI trick...

While tankers on running their Table VI, VII and VIII gunnery programs, there is a lot of time spent on administrative hold, waiting your troops turn at the range. Needless to say, many units take this time to run the troopers into the training barracks and give them time to eat in the mess hall, take showers, PX runs, etc. And since the tanks have their automatic weapons mounted, they leave several armed guards to take care of things...

Anybody cringing in terror yet?

Guard duty has to be one of the most thankless tasks that a young soldier has to endure, especially when its a 18-19 year old. And bored soldiers tend to come up with, shall we say, rather odd means to pass the time...

The M-60A1 tank had its .50-caliber machine gun mounted in a coupla and ejected the empty casings and links down the front of the tank where they tended to get caught in every possible nook and cranny. The M-85C machine gun also had a problem with misfires and you could almost always find a few dud rounds, just waiting to be put to use.

This trick involves tracer rounds, a book of matches and a P-38 can opener. The bored trooper pulls the bullet portion out of the case, making sure to spread the lips of the opening as much as possible and pours about 1/3 of the powder out to the fender. You take your trusty can opener and use the point to pierce the copper cover over the tracer element, you then reinsert the bullet, point first, into the cartridge and pour gun powder over the top of the tracer...strike a match to the powder and watch the flash, hear the pop and watch the bullet, with its tracer lit...go up about 70 meters or so into the air....and hope that it doesn't land on a dry brush, Range Control is never amused by range fires.

[Legbreaker]

Here in Australia mucking about with ammo like that (or even just having a few bits of expended brass in your pocket) would get the offending soldier up on a charge quicker than they could blink.
I'd hate to imagine what sentence screwing with the tracers would get you, but it wouldn't be pleasant. Throw in starting a fire and it's likely to involved gaol time and dishonourable discharge.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Its a similar situation here in the UK Leg. Every time we were on the range we'd be lined up afterwards, reminded that it was a criminal offence to remove rounds or brass from a range, be given a chance to return any we had and then do a declaration to the OC or range officer (whoever was the senior rank) stating 'I have no live rounds or empty cases in my posession sir/sgt etc"

As far as I know this was the case across the UK, but that may have only happened in NI (or with NI units) due to our 'unique' security situation.

[Legbreaker]

It was the same in every unit I was in. The only (minor) difference we had to the UK seems to be the wording of the declaration: "I have no live rounds or range produce in my possession, sir!"
You could have half a dozen AT rounds in your back pocket up until that declaration, but if anything (even one expended 7.62mm casing or a piece of link from a machinegun belt) was found afterwards, you were in SERIOUS shit.

[perardua]

It's the same on any UK range, whether it be blank or live firing. As TiggerCCW said, at the end of every range or exercise you line up, are reminded that it is a civil and military offence to have ammunition in your possession, given a few minutes to check your pockets, pouches and helmet lining, then the RCO's assistants come down the line checking each of you in turn as you give the declaration (precise wording depending on what you have been using). After everything has given the declaration, including the range staff, the RCO then says something along the lines of 'if, upon returning to your home, barracks or place of work you do find any of the said items, hand them in to a responsible NCO and nothing more may be said'.

[Legbreaker]

This one (to my shame) is one of my own stupid things.
While augmenting the permanent training platoons manpower at the Infantry School, Singleton, we picked up the trick of cracking open a few blanks and pouring the powder down the barrel. The result is a much louder bang on the first shot which sounded much more like a real gunshot - great for the openning salvo against the exhausted trainees. The critical detail of this is we weren't issued with BFA's (black firing attachment) for our L1A1 SLRs and had to hand cock between shots.

A few months later I was enemy party for an JNCOs course on small unit tactics. Casting my mind back I remembered the trick with the additional powder, ripped off the BFA, threw in a few blanks worth of powder and replaced the BFA while waiting in ambush.

The first shot was satisfyingly loud and violent. Stunned and deafened, it took me a moment to register what had happened - the additional powder in the barrel, and tiny hole in the BFA for the gas the escape had forced the breach back and body of the weapon to partly open. Snapping the rifle closed again with some difficulty, I continued on firing in a daze.

A few hours later and it comes time to pack up an head for home. To save time we usually stripped and cleaned our weapons while in the back of the truck. Unfortunately the rifle would not open - corporals, sergeants, warrant officers all tried and failed. The force of the blast had completely jammed it and it had to be sent off to the armourers for repair. Fortunately for me nobody worked out what the real cause was....

:naughty:

[dragoon500ly]

It's normal to do the "no brass, no ammo sergeant!" as well. Which makes the National Guard experience that much more difficult. To save wear & tear on the NG tanks, they often use Regular Army tanks for their range practice over the weekend.

Monday morning, when you went to the motor pool to check the tanks, you could always count on finding 2-3 main gun rounds, at least 1,000 rounds of machine gun ammo, not to mention smoke grenades for the launchers, smoke grenades, artillery simulators and a wide assortment of blank ammo, all ready for use.

[Legbreaker]

Ooooooo, that's just scary! Imagine having all that ammo just laying about where any nutjob could get at it. Even worse is having live and blank ammo mixed together in the same place (see post #21 for why).

[weswood]

When my reserve unit (1/23 Marines, an Infantry Bn) got called up during Desert Storm, the Ammo Techs- the guys that went to the bunkers and drew ammo and explosives for the line companies- worked for me. After it was determined we were just going to sit it out in Pendleton, the CO gave us permission to fly home and drive our own vehicles back.

By the time we were released, I think I had everything an infantry co. uses as far as ammo, except det cord and mortar rounds in the back of my truck. Got pulled over once by California Highway Patrol, he let us slide without a ticket or a search, thank God.

[Legbreaker]

By the time we were released, I think I had everything an infantry co. uses as far as ammo, except det cord and mortar rounds in the back of my truck.

Claymores, AT rockets, hand grenades, machinegun belts, magazines, cases of 9mmP, .45ACP, 5.56mmN, etc, etc, etc....

Soooo, you're an NA agent, right? :p

[weswood]

Claymores, AT rockets, hand grenades, machinegun belts, magazines, cases of 9mmP, .45ACP, 5.56mmN, etc, etc, etc....

Soooo, you're an NA agent, right? :p

Oops, no claymores or AT rockets, anyway. Most of it was just transporting for other people, but if it was something I could use there was a transport tax :)

[dragoon500ly]

Yup! It is amazing the amount of "material" that follows you home. Flares, smoke grenades, artillery simulators, NBC suits, magazines (WHAT!?!? pay 30.00 bucks for civilian mags???).

And yes a copy of the old border maps went home with me when I left Germany.

[jamec9869]

For those of us who have been stationed at Fort Hood, I'm sure that you all remember how Manning Mountain sticks right out of the maneuver area. Highest elevation on post and, needless to say, a fairly unmistakeable landmark.

While test flying the latest AH-1S, a 6th Air Cavalry Combat Bridgade pilot flew right into the side of Manning Mountain. The crew were dinged up, but the bird was, errrr, toast.

The next day, while the accident inspection team was surving the wreck, another AH-1S, flown by the company commander, flew into Manning Mountain, less than 100 meters from the crash site!

The lesson learned form this, you should always maintain enough attitude when sight-seeing!

[Targan]

For those of us who have been stationed at Fort Hood, I'm sure that you all remember how Manning Mountain sticks right out of the maneuver area. Highest elevation on post and, needless to say, a fairly unmistakeable landmark.

While test flying the latest AH-1S, a 6th Air Cavalry Combat Bridgade pilot flew right into the side of Manning Mountain. The crew were dinged up, but the bird was, errrr, toast.

The next day, while the accident inspection team was surving the wreck, another AH-1S, flown by the company commander, flew into Manning Mountain, less than 100 meters from the crash site!

The lesson learned form this, you should always maintain enough attitude when sight-seeing!

A re-post of post #17 from this thread?

[StainlessSteelCynic]

A re-post of post #17 from this thread?

No other posts, new user, a cut & paste of someone else's post etc. etc.
I'm inclined to think it's a spam post for the online movie site in his sig and therefore a subject for deletion (and if he shows an inclination for the same trick again then subject for banning).

[Adm.Lee]

From Dragoon500ly
Guard duty has to be one of the most thankless tasks that a young soldier has to endure, especially when its a 18-19 year old. And bored soldiers tend to come up with, shall we say, rather odd means to pass the time...

http://terminallance.com/?p=444

[dragoon500ly]

From Dragoon500ly


http://terminallance.com/?p=444

What can I say? "Marines!"

[dragoon500ly]

Seen on a firing range at Grafenhower, Germany...

2nd Lieutenant, half way through his first tour is on the machine gun range getting ready for the .50-caliber table. It's the first firing of the day, and everyone is just waiting for the morning fog to lift.

He's in his coupla, the range is hot, he's got 210 rounds of .50 ball-n-tracer, and several deer are spotted downrange...

Needless to say, our avid hunter burns the belt out, shredding four deer before the screaming of Range Control registered.

Yup! He didn't make his 1st Lieutenant on time, AND the Germans wanted their pound of flesh. It worked out to $900.00 per deer in fines!

[dragoon500ly]

This one is not so stupid, but I soooo wish I had thought this on up!

As a cavalry scout, one of the fun things that we do is play with mines. Now, by no means, are we as trained with them as a combat engineer, but we do take pride in being just a bit more devious.

The M-18A1 Claymore anti-personel mine is a wonderful device to play with, not only can you rig it with a variety of fuses, you can also command detonate it. The problem with a command detonation is, of course, that an alert scout can spot the commo wire leading from the claymore, and this leads us to the "Four Way Wack Trap."

Step one, you set up a claymore, poorly hidden (like a nice, hasty ambush) and you leave a bit of commo wire showing, leading off in one direction. For some odd reason, people playing with claymores like to led the wires straight back to their fighting position.

Step two, two additional claymores are wired onto branches, several feet overhead and directed to cover the kill zone and wired for command detonation.

Step three, looking over the selected kill zone, several toe-popper mines are scattered around likely places that your victims would use for cover, after the overhead mines go off.

Step four, pick 3-4 good sized trees, overlooking your selected kill zone...and wrap 5-6 times with det cord, be sure to cover the cord with mud and moss to blend in!

Step five, almost done! Be sure to take a mix of frag and WP grenades and wire the safety pins directly to the branch and be sure to straighten the pins just enough so that when the trees fall, the grenades will bounce free and add that little extra bit of mayhem to your ambush.

The Sergeant who taught this one was a three tour Vietnam War vet who always swore that this was one of the most deadly remote ambushes that he ever saw.

[pmulcahy11b]

After a National Guard drill at Ft. Hood, before we headed in, one M-60 tank (we were operating as a combined arms team for that drill) decided to destroy some of the native trees. They'd get the tank up to speed and the trees would splinter. Our platoon sergeant said to us, "You know, they're going to get a fine for that, and the TC's going to get an Article 15." And he was true on both counts.

[dragoon500ly]

After a National Guard drill at Ft. Hood, before we headed in, one M-60 tank (we were operating as a combined arms team for that drill) decided to destroy some of the native trees. They'd get the tank up to speed and the trees would splinter. Our platoon sergeant said to us, "You know, they're going to get a fine for that, and the TC's going to get an Article 15." And he was true on both counts.

Could have been worse, they could have killed some of the local cattle! Nothing like a field grade article 15!

[helbent4]

Could have been worse, they could have killed some of the local cattle! Nothing like a field grade article 15!

Lee,

I talked to an American-Vietnamese war veteran once who complained he got fined more for accidentally shooting a water buffalo than civilians. Hard to judge the veracity of that one...

Speaking of Stupid GI tricks, here's a strip from the web comic "Terminal Lance":


http://terminallance.com/comics/2010-06-08-Strip_41_Standing_Post_Boredom_web.jpg


"Though it may seem like going from song to pubic arson is slightly far-fetched, I may remind you that Marines are a very special kind of animal. As well, when a Marine is bored, the final step of boredom is always something involving the genitals. Lighting one’s pubes on fire isn’t just something I made up either, this actually happened at least three times that I can recall while on my first Iraq deployment. These are the sorts of things you can’t really make up.

But, point being: when it comes to Marines, all paths eventually lead to the genitals.

Bored Marines are some of the most entertaining people on the face of the planet. Where else can you watch a common conversation turn into a wrestling match? Or watch common conversation turn into someone getting the tan-belt choke hold until they go unconscious? Or watch common conversation turn into genital injury? If I miss anything about the Marine Corps, it’s seeing what absurd and ridiculous things come of Marines with too much time on their hands."

Tony

[pmulcahy11b]

Lee,

I talked to an American-Vietnamese war veteran once who complained he got fined more for accidentally shooting a water buffalo than civilians. Hard to judge the veracity of that one...
Tony

There was the same sort of story going around in Desert Storm, except it was a camel instead of a water buffalo. Stories like that probably come out of every war.

[dragoon500ly]

You can almost see several Iraqis, sitting around drinking coffee and watching the Marines setting fire to each other's pubic hair.

"Assem! The Americans are even sicker running dogs than Sadaam said they were!"

[dragoon500ly]

From a REFORGER exercise in 1982....

Two Army warrent officers are going to be court-martialed for their choice of lunch.

It seems that the two chiefs were tired of C-Rations and decided to stop off at a MacDonald's somewhere in Germany.

The reason why they were being court-martialed? Their choice of vehicle!

They decided to land their AH-1 in the parking lot...and got caught on tape!!

[dragoon500ly]

Talked to an ole buddy of mine who served with the 11th ACR during Vietnam as a M-48 gunner. He tells me of a little modification that was used...

This involves a standard M-48 tank, and six Claymore mines, and some steel plate and welding equipment.

One of the major disadvantages of any tanks is that the closer you are to the tank, the harder it is for the crew to see you and bring weapons to bear, especially if the crew has been forced to button up the hatches.

This mod involves welding two "L" shaped brackets in board of the dismounted headlights, mounting a claymore on each and running the firing wires into the driver's compartment.

Two additional "I" shaped brackets are welded to the lower hull, one set in between the number 1 and 2 roadwheels and the second in front of the sprocket and angled to point out at a 45 degree angle, the firing wires are run along the side of the hull towards the rear, through the gap inbetween the sprocket and hull, back over the rear deck and into the driver's compartment.

Gives a rather nasty surprise to any hostile infantry trying to get close with a satchel charge or two!

[mikeo80]

I was visiting my Dad for his 87th (!!) brithday last week. He regailed me of some of the stories from his WWII Navy Experience.

1) Dad was a Radar/Sonar man in a PBY Catalina. He flew anti-sub patrols off of Florida. During one patrol, he reported a blip on his sonar. Radio man and navigator confirmed free fire zone. They dropped their two depth charges....


Up came a dead whale....


SOOO...Being the enterprising chaps that they were, instead of German, Italian or Japanese flags painted on their plane...THey painted a whale!!! :D

2) On days not flying, Dad and his group were MP's at a German/Italian Naval forces POW camp. Being typical GI's, Dad and his group would give extra clothing, blankets, rations, cigarettes, etc to the prisoners. Now it seems that there were a couple of German Officers who insisted that all of these goodies belonged to them...

Well, as Dad put it...Those German Officers fell down the steps....several times. Hard.

3) Towards the end of WWII, Dad was training to be a carrier fighter pilot for the invasion of Japan. We have a picture of Dad in his flying outfit. Red Barron beware!!!! Dad dressed in leather jacket, leather helmet, scarf, goggles, gloves, etc.

You see, training back then was done in BI-PLANES!!!!!

Also, as part of the "unofficial" training, there were many "Points" scored by Dad and his fellow learners when they would run the landing gear of their planes on TOP of the long freight trains that moved material.

Hope you enjoy these stories. Dad sure enjoys telling them.

Mike

[cavtroop]

Talked to an ole buddy of mine who served with the 11th ACR during Vietnam as a M-48 gunner. He tells me of a little modification that was used...

This involves a standard M-48 tank, and six Claymore mines, and some steel plate and welding equipment.

One of the major disadvantages of any tanks is that the closer you are to the tank, the harder it is for the crew to see you and bring weapons to bear, especially if the crew has been forced to button up the hatches.

This mod involves welding two "L" shaped brackets in board of the dismounted headlights, mounting a claymore on each and running the firing wires into the driver's compartment.

Two additional "I" shaped brackets are welded to the lower hull, one set in between the number 1 and 2 roadwheels and the second in front of the sprocket and angled to point out at a 45 degree angle, the firing wires are run along the side of the hull towards the rear, through the gap inbetween the sprocket and hull, back over the rear deck and into the driver's compartment.

Gives a rather nasty surprise to any hostile infantry trying to get close with a satchel charge or two!

The Air Force did this in Iraq:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/USAF_M113_APC_at_Camp_Bucca,_Iraq.jpg

Near as I can tell, it's an APC used to quell prison riots or something? not sure though, little info out there.

[dragoon500ly]

It's always scary when people mention Air Force and using armored vehicles. In the armor battalions, one of the three tanks in Headquarters Company is the -66 vehicle and it belongs to the Air Force forward observer. You know, that "lost" looking major in Air Force uniform, wandering around...:D

They normally stay in their jeep during field exercises. But a decision was made to run them through the Tank Commander's Certification Course and turn them into instant TCs. While it seemed a good idea to some REMF buried deep in the bowels of the Pentagon, taking an airdale and putting them in a tank was a recipe for trouble. Especially when they had to go to gunnery.

The M-60A1 tank is equipped with a gyro-stabilizer that maintains traverse and elevation while the tank is moving. To stabilize, there is a control box with two dials, the gunner simply rotates the dials to hold the gun/turret steady. Simple, right?

Shooting with a three man crew means that the tank commander also has to act as gunner, which is why the TC position has the ability to move the turret and fire a weapon, many TCs are adapt at reaching into the gunner's position to flip switches, index ammo, arm the co-axial, etc.

Our airdale saw this being done and thought he could go one better, while holding the turret override control, he stretched his leg and tried to kick the switch for the co-ax...except he missed and engaged the stabilizer...and knocked both knobs out of adjustment.

Since he had the override engaged, the gun moved to max elevation, causing him to slip, and since he didn't let go of the override, the turret proceed to slew left at max speed. On the firing range we watched in awe as the turret spun about a dozen times before he released the override. We also got to listen to his terrified screaming and cursing over the radio circuit!

And Range Control couldn't help themselves: "Ahhhh, Hotel-66, please observe correct radio procedure!"

[helbent4]

It's always scary when people mention Air Force and using armored vehicles.

Lee,

My dad was employed as a civilian contractor with Burroughs Business Machines, installing the SAGE network into NORAD stations across Canada (Pine-Tree and Mid-Canada radar lines). Mostly up north like northern Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, BC. Not the "Far North", more like what we call the "deep bush". (Like the Australians, we have our "outback" except we have so much there are increasingly severe degrees of outbackedness.)

Speaking of "brass-catchers", he met my mom in the officer's club of one of these bases (Mt. Brother near Kamloops). A friend of hers dragged her there to troll for Air Force officers (she says) but she ended up dating the tech guy so go figure. This would have been in the early 60's, and his memories of Operation Skyshield II and III, not to mention real alerts, were particularly harrowing. It's understandable why the results of these full-dress exercises were kept secret until recently (hint: we would have gotten creamed in a nuclear war unless we struck first).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Skyshield

At any rate, he said that Air Force guys running around the station with guns was always considered a bad sign! One day up in the Interior (mid-northern BC) he was having coffee in the cafeteria when an AF guy packing a carbine came in and started closing the windows and shuttering them. It was a fallout exercise and they were locking down the base, although they were probably the only worthwhile target within 500km. Curious, dad asked if he'd closed the rest of the base, including the ventilation and air conditioning for the computer annex (where the SAGE main-frames were located) even though the intakes were filtered and the building kept at positive pressure. As you may have guessed from the time period, this was when computers had to be kept well-cooled (I think he said the SAGE mainframes used water or liquid cooling).

When the answer was he started at that end of the base first and indeed had shut everything down, including the SAGE annex, dad bolted for the door. He arrived at the far side of the base just before the coolant boiled over and destroyed the mainframe.

This is an unrelated, but hilarious infantry briefing (submitted to the webcomic "Terminal Lance" and is Not Safe For Work):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sxXep-aUIc&feature=player_embedded

Tony

[pmulcahy11b]

My great-great-uncle John Harris (one of the few people on my stepmonster's side of the family worth anything) was a Marine in World War 1. (He unfortunately died about 15 years ago at the age of 99.) Seems the Germans one day sent an officer under a flag of truce to the the Marines' lines. The German commander was highly pissed at the Marines' "ungentlemanly" behavior -- the Marines would start an engagement by consistently picking off Germans at 600-800 yards. Not just a sniper or two, but the whole Marine unit!

I think the German commander was just pissed because his troops couldn't shoot as well.

[dragoon500ly]

This would have been in the early 60's, and his memories of Operation Skyshield II and III, not to mention real alerts, were particularly harrowing. It's understandable why the results of these full-dress exercises were kept secret until recently (hint: we would have gotten creamed in a nuclear war unless we struck first).

Tony,

There is an intresting story out of one of the Red Flag exercises held in Nevada. It seems that the RAF sent some Buccaneers over as Red Force bombers. The USAF, with its brand new F-15Cs was looking forward to nailing the RAF...so much so that a case of Dewar's Scotch was bet on the outcome.

The result...

RAF made 12 attacks on targets and never lost a single plane. They did it by doing nap of the earth, at less than 100 feet altitude and at high speed. It turns out the much-vaunted Eagles couldn't see on radar at such low altitude, and that the older Buccaneers, were faster and more maneuverable than the Eagles at low level.

Game, set and match to the Royal Air Force!!!!! :D

[dragoon500ly]

My great-great-uncle John Harris (one of the few people on my stepmonster's side of the family worth anything) was a Marine in World War 1. (He unfortunately died about 15 years ago at the age of 99.) Seems the Germans one day sent an officer under a flag of truce to the the Marines' lines. The German commander was highly pissed at the Marines' "ungentlemanly" behavior -- the Marines would start an engagement by consistently picking off Germans at 600-800 yards. Not just a sniper or two, but the whole Marine unit!

I think the German commander was just pissed because his troops couldn't shoot as well.

Paul,

I ran across a hardbook on WWI that talked about the Germans rifle practise taking place at indoor ranges and at ranges of no more than 100 yards. US Marines and Army, prewar, trained at up to 1,000 yards.

The Germans, while not as bayonet-happy as the French (is anybody more bayonet-happy than the French?), believed that the bayonet would overpower the rifle. They also believed that the true man-killer was artillery and machine guns.

So when the Germans ran into the 2nd and 3rd Divisions of the AEF, there are so many accounts from both sides of how American rifle fire at unheard of ranges, slaughtered attacking Germans.

[dragoon500ly]

I once had a First Sergeant who was (in)famous for his safety briefings:

"Alright you horny bunch of f**king troopers! You have a f**king three day weekend and its time for our Safety f**king Briefing! Remember! If you get f**king drunk, call the CQ to have a f**king ride back to the f**king kaserne! Don't f**king Drink and f**king Drive! If you are going to f**k a local, use a f**king condom! If you plan of f**king passing out in a f**king ditch, have a f**king pair of f**king dry socks handy so you don't get f**king trench foot! No f**king fighting with the f**king MPs! And if one of you f**king idiots decide to take on the f**king Polizei, don't f**king call me to bail your f**king ass out! I plan on f**king my wife! Anybody have a f**king question? Good! Dismissed!"

The Army...gotta love it!

[B.T.]

Well, Dragoon ...

His German was not bad :D

[dragoon500ly]

What can I say, he was a great First Sergeant, it's just that every sentence he ever uttered had f**k in it!

"Is there any the f**k else you would like to f**king add Captain?"

"Lieutenant, I've seen some stupid f**king mistakes in my f**king 32 years of service. But this f**king takes the cake, Sir!"

[Adm.Lee]

Tony,

There is an intresting story out of one of the Red Flag exercises held in Nevada. It seems that the RAF sent some Buccaneers over as Red Force bombers. ...

Game, set and match to the Royal Air Force!!!!! :D

How about RN Admiral Woodward's story about how he 'sank' a US CVN (cited in his Falklands memoir)? On a 1970s exercise in the Indian Ocean, his DD was supposed to be the target for a CVBG. At night, his ship rigged all the lights possible, and had the radio crew pretend to be an Indian cruise ship every time a plane flew over. At dawn, they were in antiship missile range of the carrier. :D

[rcaf_777]

Our Captain would come up on the radio net and ask the platoon their ETA and was assured by the Lieutenant that he was five minutes out. After almost an hour of watching this, the Captain comes up on the net and orders the platoon to halt. He then asks for the location of the platoon. After the Lieutenant gives a grid (32km off)

I have a similar "virtual" story. When I was in ROTC, one of my classmates was having a terrible time with learning map-grids. Our instructor pretty much had to repeat everything at least twice for him. A week or so later, that guy & I went to see "Platoon"* (that should give you an idea how long before GPS this was). During the scene in which the LT is fumbling with the map and radio under fire, I got to poke poor Steve in the ribs. A lot. He nearly punched me in the face!

I don't understand, I am a Boy Scout Leader and I teach my Scouts map and compass and all my Scout can get us from point A to B and find their spot on the map, and give me the grid. One of the gun-ho boys ask if I could show them how to call in Artillery, which I declined

[cavtroop]

I don't understand, I am a Boy Scout Leader and I teach my Scouts map and compass and all my Scout can get us from point A to B and find their spot on the map, and give me the grid. One of the gun-ho boys ask if I could show them how to call in Artillery, which I declined

Some people just have the damnedest time with orienteering - I am pretty good at it, but there are others to whom it just doesn't 'click' at all, that lightbulb never goes on.

[Dog 6]

There was the same sort of story going around in Desert Storm, except it was a camel instead of a water buffalo. Stories like that probably come out of every war.


I shot a camel in the ass with a 120mm boot round in the storm. After months of mre's it tasted good. :D

[dragoon500ly]

I don't understand, I am a Boy Scout Leader and I teach my Scouts map and compass and all my Scout can get us from point A to B and find their spot on the map, and give me the grid. One of the gun-ho boys ask if I could show them how to call in Artillery, which I declined

Think of it this way...you are a green 2nd Lieutenant, riding a tank for your first field exercise. Now tank rides have to be experienced to be believed, they pitch and roll worse than any navy ship, (you have no seat belts and you might have a hand hold), you are wearing a poorly fitted CVC (crew communications helmet) trying to monitor the platoon and company freqs and direct your driver (gee isn't it strange how the command tank always has a new driver?), not to mention the stink and heat of the exhaust washing over you whenever you least expect it. You are trying to fold, unfold, refold your map case, trying to watch for landmarks. All too many times I have witnessed green lieutenants trying to use a compass while sitting on top of a tank (didn't learn about compasses and large masses of metal at West Point,
did we?).

And for added entertainment, your tank platoon is fresh off of gunnery, and the stink of ammonia-based propellent is lingering, and since its day 4 of the FX...the chance to bath, has not been recent...breakfast was an MRE and the lethal combination of BO, diesel exhaust, ammonia, poor food and the rough ride leaves you about to toss your cookies! Nothing gets the ole platoon going like watching the new lieutenant puking his guts out over the side of the ole turret!!!

And sitting right next to you, in his loader's hatch is your evil loader (satanic bastard!) With a mouth full of ole Redman and a plastic bottle that he is spitting in...strapped right there where you can watch it out of the corner of your eye, where you can enjoy the pleasure of watching his "residue", splash around the inside....

Sucks to be a green 2nd Lieutenant...

[dragoon500ly]

Got to thinking about bad designs and came across this journel entry.

During the Cold War, US tanks (M-60A1s) stationed close to the border carried a basic load of 50 rounds of main gun ammo, especially those units close to the Fulda Gap. At the time of this incident, the mix was 40 rounds of APDS and 10 rounds of HEAT.

Now the 105mm HEAT round looks sort of like a potato masher grenade right out of WWII, a flat nose clyinder with a pipe sticking out of the end. This pipe housed the point-detonating fuse and the fuse itself was protected with a screw on cap. Normally the round is loaded as is, since the inside of the cap has a small point designed to impact on the nose of the fuze and start the reaction. The screw cap had one flaw. Over time, the paint holding it in place starts to crack and the movement of the tank causes the cap to unscrew.

The main gun rounds were routinely downloaded for inspection as well as prior to any gunnery (being replaced with practice rounds). Part of the download process was for the loader to test the cap and if he found it loose, to pass it out to the tanker standing next to the turret, to be transported to a blast pit where an EOD specialist would refix the screwcap and paint it again.

A simple process, performed 2-3 times a year and always preceeded with a safety briefing so everyone is on the same track.

We had a brand new kid, straight out of Armor Basic. He was assigned to my tank as the loader, (I was a new PFC, driver), but due to his inexperience, I was inside the tank, removing the rounds, and passing them up to my tank commander to be handed down to the ground and moved to the ammo bay.

I found a HEAT round with a loose cap and passed it up to the TC, advising him, and he repeated back to me "Loose Cap!" He handed it down to our new man, and I heard the repeat "Loose Cap!" I was travesing the turret to get to a hull rack when my TC dove, head first through the loader's hatch, at almost the same moment, there was an explosion and the tank rocked sideways.

By the time I had helped my TC back up through the hatch, the rest of the platoon had gathered in stunned silence.

According to my TC, our new man had accepted the HEAT round and stepped back, as my TC started to turn back to the tank, he saw the new guy, take the round by the base and ram the projectile into the concrete to reset the screwcap, at this point my TC dove for cover. Since the screwcap only has to travel a quarter of an inch to impact the fuze....

Hell of a way to give your life for your country....

[atiff]

What can I say, he was a great First Sergeant, it's just that every sentence he ever uttered had f**k in it!

"Is there any the f**k else you would like to f**king add Captain?"

"Lieutenant, I've seen some stupid f**king mistakes in my f**king 32 years of service. But this f**king takes the cake, Sir!"

I once heard a man (non-military - a farmer) make a complete sentence with only the F word:

"F**king f**ker's f**ked"

[dragoon500ly]

It's always amazing all of the things that you learn in the military, not just the wild parties, but the utter depths that your native language is capable of. Not to mention the ability to learn the major local insults within 72-hours of arriving at your new duty station!

[mikeo80]

I shot a camel in the ass with a 120mm boot round in the storm. After months of mre's it tasted good. :D

Not sure what a boot round is, But IMHO, shooting a camel with 120mm ANYTHING,......there can NOT be much left of the camel?!?!:p

[Targan]

Not sure what a boot round is, But IMHO, shooting a camel with 120mm ANYTHING,......there can NOT be much left of the camel?!?!:p

Slang for sabot maybe? I know that sabot is French for shoe.

[weswood]

It's always amazing all of the things that you learn in the military, not just the wild parties, but the utter depths that your native language is capable of. Not to mention the ability to learn the major local insults within 72-hours of arriving at your new duty station!

The problem is unlearning that way of speaking. I've been a civilian for damn near 20 years and have to consiously whatch what I say. Specially in church!

[copeab]

The Germans, while not as bayonet-happy as the French (is anybody more bayonet-happy than the French?), believed that the bayonet would overpower the rifle.

The Japanese, at least through WWII, were quite bayonet-happy, as the common soldier considered their bayonet their katana. Worth mentioning that Japanese bayonets were quite large, even for the period.

[helbent4]

What can I say, he was a great First Sergeant, it's just that every sentence he ever uttered had f**k in it!

"Is there any the f**k else you would like to f**king add Captain?"

"Lieutenant, I've seen some stupid f**king mistakes in my f**king 32 years of service. But this f**king takes the cake, Sir!"

Lee,

Hey, sounds like a hell of a guy!

This is the strip in "Terminal Lance" that the comments in the video referenced:

http://terminallance.com/comics/2010-09-27-Strip_68_Fuckin_What_web.jpg

I think this also qualifies as a "stupid GI trick":

http://terminallance.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Sgt-Joe-Bartling-tattoo-768x1024.jpg

Because it was done in response to this strip:

http://terminallance.com/comics/2010-03-16-Strip_21_Lament_of_the_Artist_Recruit_web.jpg


Tony

[HorseSoldier]

The Germans, while not as bayonet-happy as the French (is anybody more bayonet-happy than the French?), believed that the bayonet would overpower the rifle. They also believed that the true man-killer was artillery and machine guns.

The Germans were right.

So when the Germans ran into the 2nd and 3rd Divisions of the AEF, there are so many accounts from both sides of how American rifle fire at unheard of ranges, slaughtered attacking Germans.

Except when guys were ordered to advanced in open order across No Mans Land (which the Germans had gotten away from by 1918) the basic lesson or rifle marksmanship from World War One was the same as World War Two -- guys with individual weapons couldn't reliably acquire, much less hit, an enemy past 300 or maybe 400 meters. What everyone found out during WW1 was that unless the enemy was obliging enough to cooperate with you killing him by walking slowly towards you in a straight line, all the emphasis on long range marksmanship training was just a waste of time. This is why the Germans got so big into developing the Maschinenkarabiner (which evolved, terminology wise, into the Sturmgewehr) during the interwar years. The same logic drove the US development of 276 Pedersen and the Soviet research into a .25" caliber intermediate-ish sort of round in the same timeframe.

[Targan]

The problem is unlearning that way of speaking. I've been a civilian for damn near 20 years and have to consiously whatch what I say. Specially in church!

You mean like remembering to say "Amen" instead of "f*ckin' A!"? :D

[HorseSoldier]

The Air Force did this in Iraq:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/USAF_M113_APC_at_Camp_Bucca,_Iraq.jpg

Near as I can tell, it's an APC used to quell prison riots or something? not sure though, little info out there.

Maybe they had to use the claymores because no one would issue them a crew served for the TC's hatch . . . ;)

I wonder if they tested the claymore rigs there -- I was always told that a sand bag backing was preferred to prevent damage to the backing armor on a 113. I'd also think a test shot would blow their brackets to smithereens.

[Legbreaker]

I wonder if they tested the claymore rigs there -- I was always told that a sand bag backing was preferred to prevent damage to the backing armor on a 113. I'd also think a test shot would blow their brackets to smithereens.

Claymores do surprisingly little actual damage to a target since the design is more to spread shrapnel over the target area than inflict blast damage. Still, I wouldn't want to be holding one in my hand (or even within a hundred yards and not in cover!). From memory they've only got about 700 grams of explosive in them which is spread out in a thin sheet.

The brackets should survive ok if they're made out of a decently thick steel - might need cosmetic application of a hammer, but should be good for reloading.
The problem I see with strapping claymores to a vehicle is that the back blast can bounce off obstacles located up to a metre behind and push the claymore over before it's shrapnel can get clear - in other words it fires into the dirt instead of sending it's hundreds of ball bearings screaming towards the enemy.

To put the claymore's capabilities into perspective, I once saw a bank of three fired at figure 11 targets (mansized cardboard cutouts of torso and head) which were located between about 10 and thirty metres. Even the closest target had no more than half a dozen holes in it with some of the further targets missed entirely by the storm of 2,100+ pieces of shrapnel. They certainly weren't shredded, but I for one still wouldn't have wanted to be on the receiving end - the noise alone was enough to incapacitate and at least stun long enough that the infantryman who initiated the blast could take his time aiming...

[cavtroop]

Maybe they had to use the claymores because no one would issue them a crew served for the TC's hatch . . . ;)

LOL, no kidding! On the Wikimedia page for that image, they state that M113 is part of the QRF for whatever base they're on. I'll assume there were going in for maintenance or something, no way it wouldn't have a .50/Mk19 mounted as part of the QRF...

[dragoon500ly]

LOL, no kidding! On the Wikimedia page for that image, they state that M113 is part of the QRF for whatever base they're on. I'll assume there were going in for maintenance or something, no way it wouldn't have a .50/Mk19 mounted as part of the QRF...

A QRF without a crew-served on the vehicle...only the Air Farce! They probably plan on calling a TLAM strike in case some goat herd crosses the perimeter!

The Air Force is the only service to acheive a 100% accuracy for their weapons. Sooner or later, everything they fire will strike the ground!

[Dog 6]

Not sure what a boot round is, But IMHO, shooting a camel with 120mm ANYTHING,......there can NOT be much left of the camel?!?!:p

sabot round I should say. oh you'd be surprised what was left. 100's of pounds of good meat. :D

[helbent4]

Lee,

As we all know, relations weren't completely harmonious behind the Iron Curtain, and Russia's allies didn't always appreciate their intended roles in any impending war/nuclear holocaust.

The Poles in particular were aware of how deeply screwed they would be in pretty much any situation. Be it their conventional role of a maritime invasion of Denmark or on the receiving end of nuclear strikes by NATO to cut supply lines by taking out bridges (and therefore cities) all along the Wisla (Vistula). I can't recall how bad they thought it was going to be but I seem to recall they thought they would suffer 40% civilian casualties and Poland would be effectively cut in half.

I'm not sure if one General telling off another counts as a "stupid GI trick" but this exchange would have been interesting to witness:

It did not look like we thought, that we would go and we would defeat the Danes and Belgians. And [so] we prepared ourselves for the possibility of getting thrashed. One time at a training briefing in the General Staff, I was angry and could not hold back.

Since there was money there that was returned to the government, I stood up and told Jaruzelski, "General, more should be given to Civil Defense so that a good, solid bunker could be built, lock up in that bunker a hundred Polish men, some sort of real good fuckers and two hundred women so that we can rebuild the Polish nation. Give some money for that." Of course, Jaruzelski was insulted and said, "What are you talking about?"

- Gen. Tuczapski, Parallel History Project on NATO and the Warsaw Pact, Oral History Interviews with Polish Generals, September 2002

Tony

[HorseSoldier]

LOL, no kidding! On the Wikimedia page for that image, they state that M113 is part of the QRF for whatever base they're on. I'll assume there were going in for maintenance or something, no way it wouldn't have a .50/Mk19 mounted as part of the QRF...

It's an interesting set up on that vehicle -- those are two firing ports for M231s on the side, I think, and those plates above must be armored windows. To get to the firing ports on an M113A3 they'd have had to remove the inner spall liners. Looks like it's had the hull drilled to run those claymore wires as well. I wonder who did the mods?. Kind of weird they'd do all that work on the hull and not mount some sort of uparmored cupola for the TC

[dragoon500ly]

The Poles in particular were aware of how deeply screwed they would be in pretty much any situation. Be it their conventional role of a maritime invasion of Denmark or on the receiving end of nuclear strikes by NATO to cut supply lines by taking out bridges (and therefore cities) all along the Wisla (Vistula). I can't recall how bad they thought it was going to be but I seem to recall they thought they would suffer 40% civilian casualties and Poland would be effectively cut in half.

I've heard this story too! And its still funny!

Here's one about a visiting Russian general at one of their military academies, and to test the young cadets, the general set up a simple problem:

"You are the commander of a Motor Rifle Divison and it is the third day of fighting following the NATO invasion of the DDR. You are the leading division of our counter-attack."

"On your left flank, a German Panzer Division is moving up and they will be in position to launch their own attack within the next 24 hours."

"To your front, an American mechanized division is sitting up hasty defense positions, they have suffered heavy losses and they will not be rady for offensive operations for at least 3 days."

"What do you do?"

The general listened as cadet after cadet laid out all kinds of plans to stop the Germans from launching their attack. Finally, the general had enough.

"Do you idiots have any idea of what is being taught in this academy he roared. You are supposed to be professional soldiers. There is only one correct answer! You attack the Americans first! Only after they are defeated do you attack the Germans! Only then!"

In the stunned silence, it was some minutes before a cadet gathered the courage to ask the question..

"Comrade General! Why are we to attack the Americans first? Are they a more capable foe?"

The general leaned on the podium and sipped from his glass of water. He then looked over the class and then answered.

"The answer cadet is very simple. Yes the Americans are dangerous foe, so are the Germans. But as professional military officers, the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"

Did I mention that the Russians really love the Germans?

:D

[Dog 6]

I've heard this story too! And its still funny!

Here's one about a visiting Russian general at one of their military academies, and to test the young cadets, the general set up a simple problem:

"You are the commander of a Motor Rifle Divison and it is the third day of fighting following the NATO invasion of the DDR. You are the leading division of our counter-attack."

"On your left flank, a German Panzer Division is moving up and they will be in position to launch their own attack within the next 24 hours."

"To your front, an American mechanized division is sitting up hasty defense positions, they have suffered heavy losses and they will not be rady for offensive operations for at least 3 days."

"What do you do?"

The general listened as cadet after cadet laid out all kinds of plans to stop the Germans from launching their attack. Finally, the general had enough.

"Do you idiots have any idea of what is being taught in this academy he roared. You are supposed to be professional soldiers. There is only one correct answer! You attack the Americans first! Only after they are defeated do you attack the Germans! Only then!"

In the stunned silence, it was some minutes before a cadet gathered the courage to ask the question..

"Comrade General! Why are we to attack the Americans first? Are they a more capable foe?"

The general leaned on the podium and sipped from his glass of water. He then looked over the class and then answered.

"The answer cadet is very simple. Yes the Americans are dangerous foe, so are the Germans. But as professional military officers, the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"

Did I mention that the Russians really love the Germans?

:D


LMFAO

you got to love that. :D

[dragoon500ly]

My last tour in Germany was with the 2nd ACR, which was charged with border patrol along the FRRG/Czech border. Most of our patrol activity was simply running jeeps up and down the grenze, calling in reports on anything unusual...

Like NATO, the Warsaw Pact runs field exercises and this story involves a tank crew from the Soviet Group of Forces in Czech. A T-62 regiment was conducting an exercise close to the border, and we were perched up in a hilltop, watching, taking photos and maintaining a humorous critique of the exercise. We were absorbed in binos and spotting scopes when one of the driver's spotted a T-62 moving down a logging road that approached the border.

Unlike the East/West German border, the border with the Czechs is marked with border stones and warning poles, only in critical points were the normal fencing/towers. So if you didn't pay close attention, you could find yourself crossing the border rather easily.

By this time we were watching this tank approach the border stone, and we could see the TC, trying to read a map and looking like he was totally lost. As the tank crossed into West Germany, we called in the spot report, and the the fhit hit the san!!!

Our squadron commander came up on the radio and ordered us to stop the tank and place the crew under arrest.

Now, picture this, our patrol consisted of two hard topped jeeps, with five men, 4 M-16s and a M-1911A1 was the largest caliber weapon we had. Like most tanks on both sides, S2 had advised that the Soviets loaded at least a partial load of main gun ammo. Hmmmmmm...a 115mm cannon vs a M-16? sounds like a bad WWF match up!!!!

So, we peeled off down the hill, blowing our little horns and pulled up alongside the T62. The TC peered down at us with a questing look and I yelled up at him "Czech" pointing back the way he had come. When he looked back, I pointed the border stone to him and the light bulb went off over his head and he turned his tank around and went back.

A few moments later, two helicopters landed and our squadron and regimental commanders get out. Needless to say, I was racked over the coals by the squadron commander for failing to stop the tank. My only defense, "It was a tank, sir, I had no anti-tank weapons to disable it when it drove off!"

At this, our regimental commander laughed and said "He's right!"

So, only a minor international incident, but least we got some excellent photos of a T62....not to mention the TCs map with all of the field exercise graphics on it!

[WallShadow]

I've heard this story too! And its still funny!

Here's one about a visiting Russian general at one of their military academies, and to test the young cadets, the general set up a simple problem:


<SNIP>


"The answer cadet is very simple. Yes the Americans are dangerous foe, so are the Germans. But as professional military officers, the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"

Did I mention that the Russians really love the Germans?

:D

Sounds like the answer a Western journalist got when he was interviewing a Czech citizen about the presence of Soviet troops, ostensibly allies, in his country. The journalist asked if the Czechs considered the Russians as friends or brothers?

"Brothers, of course!" the Czech replied. "You can choose your _friends_.":rolleyes:

[Targan]

So, only a minor international incident, but least we got some excellent photos of a T62....not to mention the TCs map with all of the field exercise graphics on it!

How many people do you know who can truthfully say they were right there when Soviet armor invaded West Germany?

[helbent4]

So, only a minor international incident, but least we got some excellent photos of a T62....not to mention the TCs map with all of the field exercise graphics on it!


Lee,

Totally awesome! Great story. When did this happen?

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

This took place, 18 September, 1986.

There is a whole history of border crossings, an overflight by a Hind-A gunship in 1984. Two overflights by AH-1s in 1984 and 1985. There is even a story about a dismounted patrol crossing into Czech and being arrested by the border guards back in 1975.

[dragoon500ly]

How many people do you know who can truthfully say they were right there when Soviet armor invaded West Germany?

There was the 1986 incident, there was a previous one in 1978 and there was supposed to have been a third involving the British, no idea on the date but it was supposed to have been 1980-81.

[Adm.Lee]

" the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"



I've heard this one from WW2, when someone asked a Polish officer in exile which invader he'd shoot first: Soviet or German? Germans first, business before pleasure!

Perhaps I should mention a medieval Polish legend, the last words of St. Florian, "O, that a country should be so cursed, to be neighbors of the Germans!" Or something like that.

[HorseSoldier]

My understanding is the the Free Poles vs the Germans in Italy and NE Europe were some of the nastier grudge fights of the war, with not much quarter asked or given on either side.

[dragoon500ly]

One of the things that I loved about the old M60A1 was the fuel cut off in the driver's compartment. A driver could simply reach back, knock the cut off on and within a couple of kilometers, the tank would sputter to a stop.

It was also amazing the number of times that a tank would sputter to a stop, inside some small village and while the tank crew tried to figure out the problem, a loader whould run into a LottoTotto and pick up bread, sausage and beer!

And volia! the tank would start back up and rejoin the convoy...

[dragoon500ly]

Being in armored cavalry, we would run wild and far on FTXs and regularly out distanced the trains. Now, in the field, the Army really does try to feed its troops a hot breakfast and supper, and a C-Ration lunch...but all too often, the hot meals were lukewarm at best, or served out of a cold marmite can.

Cav troopers, tend to get a little creative...at those times. Nothing like the scouts running dismounted night patrols into villages, for the purpose of observing the local butcher/baker. Or the tankers running a hasty attack into town and dismounting local security elements and secureing the nearest phone booth long enough for the pizza delivery guy to arrive. Or to see a
M60A1 or M113 Dragon Track pull into the local grocery store and a few GIs run in and "make contact with local resistance fighters".

Can still see my troop commander sitting in his jeep, slowly shaking his head when he heard about that one....

Not to mention, the GIs making contact with the local rug-rats and trading C-Rations for hot meals from home, or some of dad's beer, or even the older sister!

[Adm.Lee]

This sounds like the crowning moment of military glory in my dad's ROTC career-- he was acting platoon leader the day of the "Ambush of the Good Humor Man" one hot day at Ft. Pickett.

[dragoon500ly]

LOL!

And I claim no knowledge of the pizza driver that delivered 30 pizzas to a certain location on Fort Hood!

[Legbreaker]

The town of Singleton near the Australian Infantry School has a couple of pizza stores that deliver. Apparently one of them delivers to grid references in the rather large training area - if you can get the order to them, they can deliver (not sure about the 30 minutes or it's free bit though).

[ex3313]

During my first refit in Guam I was duty driver and was sent to McDonalds to fetch over 100 big mac's and a similar number of 1/4 lber's amazing they had a drive up window for orders thast size

[dragoon500ly]

Guess that's one thing true of any service member, given the choice of issue rations, or acquiring real food...the soldier's ability to get their hands on it is unlimited!

[pmulcahy11b]

That was the bad part of my field shift at 2X -- I often slept through all three LOGPACs or was too busy to get the meals when they came. Of course, being a grunt, I was used to subsisting on MREs in the field anyway, and being a REMF billet (though technically not one, I beg to differ), I could supplement it with lots of pogey.

[Rockwolf66]

Heck some friends of mine enjoyed fried chicken and beer daily in Iraq.

[weswood]

During my first refit in Guam I was duty driver and was sent to McDonalds to fetch over 100 big mac's and a similar number of 1/4 lber's amazing they had a drive up window for orders thast size

A buddy of mine at Cherry Point NC went through the drive through of the McD's on base and asked if they had any McMatches for his McCiggarette.

[dragoon500ly]

Remember one LOGPAC when I was a driver on a M-60A1, nothing beats a midnight refueling and having the First Sergeant sliding a paper plate of ice cold food up the front slope.

Didn't have the heart to tell him that we had grilled steaks earlier....:D

Nice thing about tanks is all of the extra storage space that can be loaded up!

[Nowhere Man 1966]

20 years ago at one of my jobs for a truck rental company, one of the mechanics was an M-60 tanker in the late 1970's and early 1980's. He told a story once where they were on a practice range firing the main gun and by coincidence, a deer came onto the range as the tank fired. Needless to say, the 105mm round hit the deer and tore it to shreds. The General at the base wanted to make sure they were not deerhunting with the tank and my mechanic friend said it was an accident.

Chuck

[Legbreaker]

As I've posted elsewhere, our Battalion armourer was worse than useless, replacing worn out parts with other worn out parts he'd been hording and should have disposed of years before. Therefore, all our M60s were in a shocking state and should have been declared unservicable.

We were on the range with about 10 machineguns firing at 300 metre figure 11 targets when a mob of kangaroos, probably 40-50 strong, hopped across the range. Suddenly tracers veered away from the targets and towards the roos. Roughly 30 seconds and about a thousand rounds later and every last one hopped leisurely over the other side of the range completely untouched....

[Nowhere Man 1966]

As I've posted elsewhere, our Battalion armourer was worse than useless, replacing worn out parts with other worn out parts he'd been hording and should have disposed of years before. Therefore, all our M60s were in a shocking state and should have been declared unservicable.

We were on the range with about 10 machineguns firing at 300 metre figure 11 targets when a mob of kangaroos, probably 40-50 strong, hopped across the range. Suddenly tracers veered away from the targets and towards the roos. Roughly 30 seconds and about a thousand rounds later and every last one hopped leisurely over the other side of the range completely untouched....

Sounds like the "A-Team Syndrome" where thousands of rounds are fired but no one gets hit. :D

Chuck

[HorseSoldier]

God forbid you do hit though -- we had some guys kill an endangered crane or stork or some other water bird at Camp Blanding in Florida while on a crew served range. The kicked off an investigation with state and federal fish &wildlife charges pending. They were cleared after several months but if evidence was found of intent there were huge fines and potential prison time looming.

[dragoon500ly]

For those who remember Graf...

One evening, a guard at a motor pool called into the sergeant and reported an explosion within the motor pool. Sergeant grabbed me (young buck private) to drive the jeep and we headed to to the motor pool to investigate.

Inside the pool were three burning 5-ton trucks and a rather large crater as well as fragments later determined to be from a 155mm round.

The firing ranges that were in use that night all pointed away from main post, soooooooo...

The investigation came up with three possibilities...

1) A defective 155mm round was left on one of the trucks and detonated. Considering that this type of round is never transported with the fuse in place. Doubtful.

2) A freak gust of wind knocked a round off its trajectory. 180 degrees off its trajectory? Doubtful.

3) That a gun crew misread coordinates and that Range Safety had failed to notice that a gun was pointing in the wrong direction, and also ignored the muzzle flash going in the wrong direction...oh come on!?!

[dragoon500ly]

While stationed at Fort Knox as an instructor, I got to see, well, some of the stranger ideas that the various defense contractors were trying to sell the military. One of the things that was fun about being on post was when several of the my fellow instructors (and myself) got to evaluate some of this new gear.

This thread should be called....Why Engineers Should Never be Allowed to Design Combat Gear Without a Soldier Standing Behind Them, Holding a Blunt Metal Object.

Among some of the odd designs that General Dynamics proposed for the M-1 were:

To help the tankers munch their MREs...it was proposed to mount a microwave oven in the turret, failing that, there was a proposal to mount a hot plate next to the driver, along with a coffee pot. Had to stop and consider the coffee pot, but I had to vote no (and to think that people say your vote doesn't matter?)!

There was a large debate about the secondary armament, there were these choices:

7.62 is so passe! GD wanted to be cutting edge so they had a demo that mounted a co-axial .50, a .50 on the TC hatch and a Mark 19 on the loaders hatch. It was fun to watch on the firing range, but ammo storage was a bit of a problem.

The original tanks had Royal Navy designers, this is why so many naval terms are used on tanks to describe the various fittings...to carry on this historical legacy, it was proposed to mount a periscope on the TC coupla...one that rose to a height of 10 meters, had a laser-rangefinder and a turret override that allowed the TC to scope his target, range to it, and then snap the turret online with the target. On the demo, the periscope jammed.

It was proposed to mount a Cummings V-12 multi-fuel in place of the turbine. The new power plant failed to give any improvement over the turbine.

The proposal to mount an auxiliary power pack to save fuel. Just picture a sheet metal extension hanging off the right rear hull, and mounting a Honda generator, you get the idea.

The mockup of an M-1, with a TC coupla about 1 meter higher than the normal one, mounting a .50 on one side and 2 Stingers on the other.

Yup! Your defense dollars, hard at work!

[pmulcahy11b]

You might have room for all that in the turret, considering a friend of mine was able to have sex in one during REFORGER 85...

[dragoon500ly]

You might have room for all that in the turret, considering a friend of mine was able to have sex in one during REFORGER 85...

Got that one beat, sex in the driver's compartment of an M-60A1!

The all time record happened to a tank crew from the 1st Armored back in 1979...their tank blew a oil line during a REFORGER, and they spent five days broken down, right next to a women's college. Wouldn't have believed it, but the lucky SOBs had the pictures to prove it!

:sagrin:

[Webstral]

Got that one beat, sex in the driver's compartment of an M-60A1!

The all time record happened to a tank crew from the 1st Armored back in 1979...their tank blew a oil line during a REFORGER, and they spent five days broken down, right next to a women's college. Wouldn't have believed it, but the lucky SOBs had the pictures to prove it!

:sagrin:

Proof that somebody always wins the lottery.

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

Got that one beat, sex in the driver's compartment of an M-60A1!

The all time record happened to a tank crew from the 1st Armored back in 1979...their tank blew a oil line during a REFORGER, and they spent five days broken down, right next to a women's college. Wouldn't have believed it, but the lucky SOBs had the pictures to prove it!

:sagrin:

Every time I broke down, it was in some training area...curse my luck!

Me, waiting for cable guy to show up, who's supposed to be here between 1 and 3, and it's past 2:00...at least I get a $25 credit if they're late.

[dragoon500ly]

Proof that somebody always wins the lottery.

Webstral

Yup! And its never me! LOL

[dragoon500ly]

Every time I broke down, it was in some training area...curse my luck!

Me, waiting for cable guy to show up, who's supposed to be here between 1 and 3, and it's past 2:00...at least I get a $25 credit if they're late.


Last time I broke down was on a farm in Germany. The farmer turned out have been a tank gunner with the 1st SS Panzer Division. Had served 2 years on the Ost Front, survived Normandy and was taken prisoner around Stoumount during the Battle of the Bulge. Take about some wild stories!!!
And fifty years later, STILL a Nazi!

[pmulcahy11b]

Yup! And its never me! LOL

I actually won $44,000 in the lotto about 15 years ago (it's long gone, sorry), so I'll probably never win anything again.

[perardua]

To help the tankers munch their MREs...it was proposed to mount a microwave oven in the turret, failing that, there was a proposal to mount a hot plate next to the driver, along with a coffee pot. Had to stop and consider the coffee pot, but I had to vote no (and to think that people say your vote doesn't matter?)!


While an open hot plate is a fairly bad idea, British armoured vehicles have been fitted with boiling vessels for hot water for years.

[LBraden]

Yeah, that's because of one MAJOR reason--

The British Army marches on its spent tea-bags, not its stomach.

Seriously, I got addicted to tea because of my father, I can easily use up 80 teabags (2 bags in a 2 litre (4 pint) teapot) in about 2-3 weeks, depending how much free time I have, which is a lot now I am out of a job.

Other funny story that I have from my father, also happened in Northern Ireland.

One day while my father was helping the REME rewire one of the "police stations" (more like armoured citadel), my father went to give a cup of tea to the guy in the raised turret that gives the commanding view of the area (like on old castles), my dad left his cup of tea on a window sill and climbed up, just as he reached the top, an explosion pushed him up a bit, spilling a hot cup of tea, well....

The explosion was attributed to a SAM launched by some pissed off Irishmen, and had hit the window my father left his cup of tea in, the downside, was that it took 6 months to get a replacement cup from the QM Sgt, as no one would believe "Cup destroyed acting as decoy to shoulder launched SAM missile"

[perardua]

Yeah, the BV in our Panther when I was in Afghanistan was being worked constantly to provide tea. Hence the most junior person in the vehicle was appointed as the BV commander, a post that generally filled them with pride until they discovered what the job entailed.

I have here an image of a BV commander discharging his duties in serving the evening meal to his distinguised colleagues:

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt216/student484/4180_90641917119_598897119_2366183_7744759_n.jpg

[Rapparee]

Hate to bring up that stereotype of the lost lieutenant again but I'd always considered it a joke till I experienced it myself a couple of months back.

We were on the battalion/brigade infantry assessment, not sure which one, it was quite possibly the most confusing exercise I've ever been on (Not that I've been on too manY!). Supposedly three medical companies were represented but there was severe scarcity and so most of our guys got pinched for the aid post and ambulance crew. Naturally still being an FNG, I got assigned to an infantry platoon of around two dozen individuals, almost full strength, with a depressingly optimistic lieutenant. Everything was grand till the night exercise....

Since this is the Irish countryside, we found ourselves hopping over cattle fences repeatedly and blundering through generally boggy terrain. Somehow we bumped into another platoon at one fence and the two officers sat down to puzzle out where they thought they were. Then invited others to join. Now please imagine around forty tooled up soldiers, kneeling and sitting in a big clump in the grass and arguing over the maps. After much discussion, we headed off again. Ten minutes later we found out that two of the recruits from the other platoon were with us accidentally. Cue me being dispatched to go looking for a camoflagued platoon in the dark with the two newbs to bring them back. The platoon gave vague assurances that "they'd wait a while". Then trying to find my way back to the platoon.....people wearing DPM, lying in the grass at night, are hard to see!

I eventually made my way onto a road and found the platoon around twenty minutes later, an assistant machine gunner being sent into a hostel to ask directions. We'd managed to blunder through at least six miles of some farmers land and arrived back suspiciously early at the camp. Thankfully no one consulted the MP's pulling security to find out that we'd cut our losses and marched back along the road!

[dragoon500ly]

We call them compass exercises, because the new lieutenants always seem to be marching off in all directions! :rolleyes:

[LBraden]

I think I found the problem there mate.

Sober Irishmen CANNOT do anything properly, like a drunk Englishman

I should know, I am Irish, just thanks to naval law, English by birth...

[pmulcahy11b]

Here's one... a certain Major set up his tent just outside of the wire in Korea. He goes to sleep. During his sleep, he rolls over -- and finds his face in excrement. The warmth inside the tent had melted what was a solid mass when he set it up. No end to ribbing on that one...

[dragoon500ly]

one FTX, in the Black Forest, a newbie thinks that sleeping on a tank is just too, well hard. He decides to spread his sleeping bag on the ground and passes out. About 230, we are awakened by screaming and the sounds of bodies running through the underbrush.

It seems that the newbie felt something tugging on the straps on the end of his bag, so he sat up, thinking that some of the old timers were playing "fuck with the new guy" again. NOPE! He was face to face with a German Wild Boar!!!! The amazing thing is that he escaped from the bag, without unzipping it, i.e. he squeezed his body though a hole less than 9 inches in diameter!

[mikeo80]

I think I found the problem there mate.

Sober Irishmen CANNOT do anything properly, like a drunk Englishman

I should know, I am Irish, just thanks to naval law, English by birth...

Now wait a minute Lee!!

I represent that remark about sober Irishmen.

Mike O'Donnell :D

[cavtroop]

one FTX, in the Black Forest, a newbie thinks that sleeping on a tank is just too, well hard. He decides to spread his sleeping bag on the ground and passes out. About 230, we are awakened by screaming and the sounds of bodies running through the underbrush.

It seems that the newbie felt something tugging on the straps on the end of his bag, so he sat up, thinking that some of the old timers were playing "fuck with the new guy" again. NOPE! He was face to face with a German Wild Boar!!!! The amazing thing is that he escaped from the bag, without unzipping it, i.e. he squeezed his body though a hole less than 9 inches in diameter!

I saw one of those get nailed by a tank at Grafenwhoer (spelling?) once, on the side of the tank trail. Nasty mess...

One time up at Ft. Drum NY, we had a run-in with some super-aggressive raccoons. They'd come into the tracks at night, to rummage in the CVC bags, so we thought we'd be smart. We taped up the end of an M16 cleaning rod so it was tight in the barrel, and loaded it down the barrel of an M60, with a blank in the chamber. Raccoon came a little too close, and BLAM, we let him have it. I swear to god that the cleaning rod went straight through this thing. He just turned at us (about 15m away or so) and hissed, but didn't give ground. Needless to say, for the rest of the FTX, we slept in the tracks, but buttoned up :)

[dragoon500ly]

I saw one of those get nailed by a tank at Grafenwhoer (spelling?)

The most common spelling is Grafenwhore. Graf had the screwest weather! In one day we started out with fog so thick that you could not see the hand at the end of your arm, by mid morning, the fog had been replaced by dust (a cav squadron running the tank trails), by noon, the ole tropical monsoon had moved in and everything was flooded and by twilight, snow was falling.

[cavtroop]

The most common spelling is Grafenwhore. Graf had the screwest weather! In one day we started out with fog so thick that you could not see the hand at the end of your arm, by mid morning, the fog had been replaced by dust (a cav squadron running the tank trails), by noon, the ole tropical monsoon had moved in and everything was flooded and by twilight, snow was falling.

I didn't mind Graf so much. Hohenfels was a craphole though - crap barracks, mud everywhere, and cold. Blah!

Back on-topic - I was in a very unique position for my last year on active duty. Our Brigade Commander (Colonel, O-6) wanted to try a new thing out, so he cross-leveled an M2A2 Bradley to the Brigade HQ, and I got tapped for the crew. I was part Scout/dismount, part gunner. When we were on the move, if the Colonel was on board, he was BC, the BC slid to the gunners slot, and I went to the back. Most of the time he wasn't on board, so I gunned. We gutted the crew compartment, ripped out all of the seats, the TOW racks, etc. On the right side of the crew compartment we installed 2 radios and an msrt satellite phone. On the left side, we installed a giant folding map-board. During the counter-recon phase of the battle the Colonel would take the Bradley out to the front lines where we'd setup in a good vantage point and he'd direct the battle. When things got hot, he'd hop in his humvee and ske-daddle, while we provided overwatch. Then, we'd join in the counter-recon battle. Sometimes, we were tasked with rear-area security (such as the time a recon platoon of BMP's rolled into the medics area :) ). Other times we focused on counter-recon, hunting down BMPs that the Humvee scouts couldn't handle.

Other times, we'd get special missions. We had one mission where we had to escort some Spanish Army emissaries (Generals, etc.) that were there for a dog and pony show to see how the US Army operated in the field. However, due to the rules of the box they were given full Miles gear, casualty cards, etc, and we played it as if they were really on the battlefield.

Well, the S-3 (a Major who shall remain nameless) was assigned to escort them around, and we were assigned security. This Major was a real head-case. West Point grad, thought he was gods gift to the US Army. So he takes the emissaries in a bunch of humvees to show them the FEBA and to observe the beginning stages of the battle. If any of you remember Hohenfels, there is this terrain feature called 'the peanut' just south of Old Baldy. It's a small hill, that gives a great view of a valley, and the chokepoint that the opfor has to plow through to attack it. So what does the Major do? Drive right up onto the Peanut, skylining us all for anyone with a clue to spot us. We radioed up to him, to alert him to the situation, but he just got very annoyed and told us to clear the airwaves. Wonderful I thought, this is starting our GREAT.

About 20 minutes later, he gets the Spanish setup right on top of the peanut, in plain view of pretty much the entire world. We setup in a bushline, trying to get as much cover as we can, but its useless. So we're scanning the battlefield, and what do we spot? About 1200m away or so, we see an Opfor BMP, with a guy standing on top. Binocs in one hand, a mic in the other, looking right at us. We tried to engage him, but he was too far away for the Miles lasers to register a hit. We radio this over to the Major, saying we need to grab the Spanish and go, as we're about to get bombarded. Of course, he wants NOTHING to do with that, and tells us (again) to get off the airwaves.

Sure enough, about 3 minutes later a whole group of OC's comes up and starts chucking flash-bangs and smoke grenades everywhere. Apparently, there was a bounty on my Bradley with the OC soldiers - they knew the Colonel had a Bradley, and were gunning for it. With 5 antennas on it, it was obvious who we were. They dropped an entire battalion of arty on our heads, and no-one survived, Spanish emissaries and all. I guess they got to see how the graves registration process worked in the US Army though, bu t they didn't see the battle :) It was only one of two times in my career I was killed by OpFor forces (the other was the 'wrong place at the wrong time' - our OP was setup, and they happened to randomly drop a nerve gas bombardment right next to us).

After the op, we got back to the Brigade TOC. The Colonel was PISSED! He came over to us, and we told him what happened. Never saw the old man so angry in my life. He LAID INTO the Major, up one side, down the other for what seemed like an eternity. We mostly hid inside the Bradley, but heard such choice quotes as 'how DARE you get my Bradley killed like that' and something about 'gross incompetence'. Apparenltly, the Colonel had a side-bet with the OpFor Colonel that 'his' Bradley wouldn't get killed, and he lost because of the Major :)

Good times :)

[dragoon500ly]

This happened at Graf

A M-60A3 from 1st Armored was taking a short cut inbetween two ranges. The TC did not have his gun tube elevated and when the driver hit a soft patch of ground, they stuck the muzzle into the mud.

The driver climbed out and scooped the mud out and ran a short section of ramrod with a brush on the end. Then looked in and proclaimed the tube "clear" Neither the driver, or the tank commander thought to open the breech block and look through the tube.

When this tank got to the range, they loaded TPDS and opened fire. The mud wad that was stuck in the tube, blocked passage of the shell and peeled open the tube like a bananna. Force of the explosion shattered all three driver's periscopes as well as the gunner's periscope head...

[Legbreaker]

I bet heads rolled for that!

[dragoon500ly]

I bet heads rolled for that!

The last that I ever heard of it was the TC went from E-6 to E-1 and received a Field Grade Article 15; his Lieutenant, Platoon and Section Sergeants, the Range Safety Officer and Range Safety NCOs all got formal letters of repimand for their 201 from their Brigade Commander. The driver was an E-2 and he got a Company Grade Article 15. Only thing that saved it from going to a Courts Martial was that no one got hurt.

Needless to say, there was a lot of inspections of gun tubes before anyone fired on the next round of Table VIIIs!!!

[pmulcahy11b]

It there any way to swab out a tank gun barrel from the breech?

[dragoon500ly]

It there any way to swab out a tank gun barrel from the breech?

Nope...

Your bore staff comes in 4-foot long sections, you don't have enough space in between the breech and the rear of the turret to feed the staff in. Normal practise is to feed the staff in from the muzzle, and have someone inside the turret ready to change the head, wrap cloth around the bell ramer, etc.

[HorseSoldier]

I can go one better on the Ft Drum raccoons. During my one brief trip to Drum my Bradley crew and I watched what had to be the dumbest guy in the New Jersey National Guard chase a skunk around a dumpster with a stick. It ended about like you'd guess . . .

[dragoon500ly]

During a FTX in Graf, the unit Chemical Officer decided to pull a fast one. The SOB poured a dozen bags of CS powder on the trank trail and then covered it with dust. Needless to say the first tank made it through okay, but the rest of us....

Nothing like a troops worth of vehicles scattered over a click of trail...

And the Chemical Officer....failed to get permission from Range Control, and since the Lieutenant Colonel was riding the trail right after our convey, and he didn't have a protective mask...

Ahhhhh, nothing like watching a Captain locked up in front of a light Colonel, getting a most impressive butt-chewing!

[dragoon500ly]

Here is an example of just how stupid the Green Machine can get.

While stationed at Fort Hood, Texas, we were notifed of an FTX that would take place over the Thanksgiving holiday. To make the FTX even more miserable, a Texas "Norther" blew through. For those of you lucky souls that have managed to avoid this form of weather, a "norther" is very cold, wet, windy and involves unseasonable snow.

To make matters even more enjoyable, our brigade commander had a personnel mission to remove heaters from military vehicles "in order to reduce our infra red signature". Yup! nothing like central Texas in 27 degree weather and a foot of snow/ice/slush to make the holidays memorable!

But that wasn't what PO'd the enlisted men. Nope! We took the weather in stride and proceeded to chase OPFER around the maneuver area. Thanksgiving Day dawned to a admin halt. Our officers were called to a high level staff meeting with the Brigade commander. Since it is somewhat unusual for all of the officers to attend a meeting, several scouts decided to perform a security patrol. Our intention was to ambush a "roach coach" and score some sodas and something other than C-rations.

We were a little surprised to see a lot of activity ongoing in a nearby clearing so we snooped in to see what was going on. Our Brigade Commander had arranged for several large tents to be set up and was hosting a Thanksgiving Dinner for his officers and their families. It was quite a spread! Everything served piping hot, white tablecloths, china, even wine for the usual toasts...

Did I mention that Thanksgiving Dinner for the troops was cold C-Rations, seems that the Brigade Commander pulled all of the unit cooks for the Officer's Dinner.

The credit of my fellow scouts, we kept our grumbling to ourselves, but the news of what had happened got out fairly quickly. But what impressed me the most was the Turkey Revolt. It seems that the Brigade Commander's little operation pissed off a lot of officers. They took up a collection among themselves and later that night cooked, delivered and served to the troops a hot Thanksgiving dinner. Kudo's to them!

And the Brigade Commander, well the Division Commander was less than pleased when the details came to his attention. Nothing offical ever happened, but our Brigade Commander was relieved of his command to attend a General Staff course, and was later assigned to a Public Information Officer's slot at the Pentagon. To the best of my knowledge, he was never appointed to command a unit again.

[Adm.Lee]

Here is an example of just how stupid the Green Machine can get.

... To the best of my knowledge, he was never appointed to command a unit again.

So, maybe not all of the Green Machine is stupid?

[dragoon500ly]

So, maybe not all of the Green Machine is stupid?

The Green Machine somehow achieves that difficult balance of amazing you, for better or worse, and even both together!

When I enlisted in 1977, there was a large percentage of the pre Vietnam War officer corps in place who were more concerned with their next posting than taking care of the troops they were responible for. It was so bad, that many officers choose to take staff assignments rather than go for command. What really saved the Army were the NCOs, many of whom had 2-3 combat tours under their belts and a large cadre of officers who had served in Vietnam and were now getting into the O3-O6 slots.

Then there were those special officers like Colin Powell and Tommy Franks. I had the privilage of serving under General Franks and I still remember the first time he I attended one of his NCO conferences after I had made Corporal, he simply is one of the finest officers of his generation, a true combat leader tempered with a wicked dry wit. "General Tommy" was loved and respected by his troopers.

Then you had officers like Norman Schwarzkopf, who may have been brave on the battlefield, but firmly believed that rank had its privilages and had the leadership ability of, well, in spite of all the press hoopla about "Stormin Norman" and "The Bear", his service nickname perhaps expresses the opinion of those who served under him "Fucking Pimple".

[dragoon500ly]

When the XM-1 Battalion was undergoing its field trails at Fort Hood in 1981 there was a rather amusing accident that took place. One of the tests of the new tank was to run it couple of times around Ft Hood. On the main tank trail there was a small switchback that climbed a small limestone cliff of about 15 feet...

During a night road march, under simulated NBC conditions, one driver got a little too comfortable and went to sleep. He awoke to his TC screaming at him to stop, a little too late and the tank ran right into the cliff. The loader of the tank lost a few teeth when he was slammed into his machinegun mount and the tank commander, wasn't holding on tight enough, he was thrown from the tank and impacted the cliff face and fell down, breaking both legs. By the time my tank had pulled up, the TC had managed to crawl back up on the tank, had gotten the driver by the throat and was punching him.

:rolleyes:

[dragoon500ly]

Going through my journals, it seems that I was nearby waaaayy too many accidents during my time...this is one of the more odd ones.

Night maneuver training at Hohenfels, my troop was roaming an area of broken gullies and washes on the east side of the maneuver area, our squadron commander was following the troop in his M-113. Night vision is a wonderful thing, but let's just say that the depth perception, especially on older vehicles like the 113 wasn't that great.

My tank was on the right flank of the troop and my gunner and I were taking turns on the thermal sight when we were suddenly dazzled by IR lights shining right at us. I popped up into my hatch and was illuminated by a pair of headlights on high beam, right before the 113 dropped into a medium-sized gully and rolled over.

I had my driver kill the IR headlights and switch to white light and called the accident in over the platoon net and headed towards the 113. In only a few moments, four IPM-1s were pulled up onto the edge of the gully illuminating the 113 lying on its side. By the time the first of us had made our way down the side, a dozen more tanks and 113s had pulled up.

Our squadron commander was riding with a light crew, himself, the S-2 and S-3, our FAC officer and the normal TC and driver. Of this mob, there were two dislocated shoulders, a broken arm, a broken leg, a concussion and the at least 4 broken ribs. The driver was the worse off, his hatch had popped free from its lock and slammed onto his head as the vehicle rolled over, he had a concussion, broken ribs and a broken leg.

Our squadron commander had cut his head and was dazed and confused, he kept climbing up and down each side of the gully, trailed by at least four different officers, each with a first aid kit....finally our Platoon Sergeant stopped him with a "Sit the fuck down sir! You're bleeding like a stuck pig!"

By this time, we had stabilized the driver and evac'd him from the vehicle, when the medics showed, they strapped him into a litter and then tried to walk him up the slope, where they promptly dropped him, still strapped to the litter. There was a comment "fucking medics are more used to treating the fucking clap!" and a dozen tankers grabbed the litter and took it up the wall, passing him from man to man.

Still can't get over the medics dropping that man...

[Panther Al]

For my first post I just have to pick this thread... Two good ones that no one can ever prove I had anything to do with relates back to my time in the sandbox.
One of our mort guys was moaning about going out on patrol and wish that they could get out of it. Some helpful soul helped out by - just before dusk mind - poured water all over his front slope. So what you might ask? Well it seems that if you slice open enough active chemlights, say 2 cases, you get the haunted 1064. Not a lot of glow, but it was noticeable.

Other incident of note: Never piss off your TC. For if you do and you are some poor annoying sort that no one can take pity on you, he may apply icyhot to your relief bottle prior to sticking you in the gunners hole for a very long road march. And that idea was taken from when he tried to do the same to me!


Remember: The Cav isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Its impossible: We invented it.

[Targan]

Welcome to the forum Panther Al. More active duty stories like those, please!

[Panther Al]

Heh. Not sure that they count as stupid tricks or not but I have a few I could share..

About a month and half into Iraq we ran out of 556 and could not get any for love of anything (a story there as well for another time). So we started using what ever we could, such as a 12 man patrol with 8 240's. Anyways, about this time my gunner and loader joined the German Army. 1hat this you might ask? Well we found a trio of weapons we decided to use and furthermore decided that we could do without our helmet covers. The trio? A 8mm MG42, a very beat up but good running MP40, and to my own surprise, a MP44. Not much ammo for it, true, but fun till they took them away.

[pmulcahy11b]

And we'll have fun, fun, fun till daddy takes the machineguns away...

[dragoon500ly]

My dad tells a story out of Vietnam, his platoon had engaged a detachment of VC and had requested a resupply of ammo, water and C-rats, they got the C-rats and the water, but the S-4 sent forward several cases of 7.62mm, ammo for M-14s, wouldn't have been a problem, but they had turned in their M-14s over a year ago....

[Abbott Shaull]

My dad tells a story out of Vietnam, his platoon had engaged a detachment of VC and had requested a resupply of ammo, water and C-rats, they got the C-rats and the water, but the S-4 sent forward several cases of 7.62mm, ammo for M-14s, wouldn't have been a problem, but they had turned in their M-14s over a year ago....

One would of thought the S-4 would of had this problem sorted out before hand...

Maybe he was waiting for emergency such as this to push the ammo on someone...Ugh...

[Abbott Shaull]

Heh. Not sure that they count as stupid tricks or not but I have a few I could share..

About a month and half into Iraq we ran out of 556 and could not get any for love of anything (a story there as well for another time). So we started using what ever we could, such as a 12 man patrol with 8 240's. Anyways, about this time my gunner and loader joined the German Army. 1hat this you might ask? Well we found a trio of weapons we decided to use and furthermore decided that we could do without our helmet covers. The trio? A 8mm MG42, a very beat up but good running MP40, and to my own surprise, a MP44. Not much ammo for it, true, but fun till they took them away.

Common there no way they would run out of 5.56 ammo...and the rest of the story why so many troops were running around with capture AKs...lol.

[Panther Al]

Common there no way they would run out of 5.56 ammo...and the rest of the story why so many troops were running around with capture AKs...lol.

You would think it would be impossible, but it was a issue with the first wave troops. 5.56 ball was ver y hard to come by (tracer on the other hand). Being a armoured cav unit (M1A2/M3) we was last in line since it was assumed we would never do dismounted ops: hence we was only given the basic draw: 210 rounds per M4. But at least we had 7.62 coming out of our ears. On my track I had some 20k rounds, being a tank has its advantages I guess. The brad guys had even more.

[Legbreaker]

I can believe it for armoured troops. Back in the day our armoured crew fired their personal weapons on exercise about once a year - they'd be throwing their issued blanks at us infantry. Mind you, we were very glad to get it as there seemed to be a serious shortage of blanks for training for some unknown reason - we'd go for days with only 1 mag while supposed to be conducting offensive actions (which chew through the ammo if done right). Most of the time we were reduced to yelling "bang".

[HorseSoldier]

One would of thought the S-4 would of had this problem sorted out before hand...

Maybe he was waiting for emergency such as this to push the ammo on someone...Ugh...

Even in peacetime I've seen crew served training scrubbed because someone ordered ammo for the M85 (?) 50 cal machinegun in the cupola on an M60 rather than ammo for M2s, and the two machineguns use different and incompatible links (note: no clue what genius decided M60 tank commander's MGs should use unique links, but obviously they should be dragged out behind the Pentagon and beheaded).

I've also seen a Nat'l Guard unit that was still equipped with M16A1s try to zero and qualify with M855 green tip ammo. Official DOD guidance on that combo is "war time only, and then only within 100 meters" -- from what I saw with rounds keyholing on the 25 meter zero range I'd venture to guess DOD was being generous saying you could use it effectively in combat at 100 meters.

And was on a sniper course where someone at Ft Bragg dug very deep into the very back of some ammo bunkers and issued a mess of M118 Special Ball instead of the newer and better M118 Long Range ammo -- a lot of it with some ancient red white and blue eagle logo packaging from when 118SB was competition ammo.

[pmulcahy11b]

I can believe it for armoured troops. Back in the day our armoured crew fired their personal weapons on exercise about once a year - they'd be throwing their issued blanks at us infantry. Mind you, we were very glad to get it as there seemed to be a serious shortage of blanks for training for some unknown reason - we'd go for days with only 1 mag while supposed to be conducting offensive actions (which chew through the ammo if done right). Most of the time we were reduced to yelling "bang".

And MILES? I saw that only for major exercises, or the time that for some reason we got it for a joint exercise in the National Guard with the Air National Guard Security Police. And I mean MAJOR exercises, such as an NTC rotation or Team Spirit in Korea.

[pmulcahy11b]

I remember the times on ranges where we were told to burn (i.e., waste) ammo just so we would not get a lesser allotment the next fiscal year. Though I did get to do fun things like fire at pop-up targets on automatic, fire M16s on M60 ranges, and fire extra M202 rockets. Fun, but wasteful.

[dragoon500ly]

The once a year qualify for your personal weapons was also a rather stupid idea, once a quarter would have been a lot better, but that would never fly.

It always amazes that the military, an organization that exisits for only one purpose, always seems to never have the money to do anything that would improve its war fighting capability...

Too many shell games being played with funds being diverted for the latest R&D, for that new construction in a certain congressman's district, that new, totally useless uniform change...you know, life as usual in Wonderland on the Potomac!

[Legbreaker]

We had a similar system to MILES called IWIS (can't for the life of me remember what it stands for). It was trotted out fairly regularly from about 1992 onward and while it was ok, it had it's drawbacks.
Firstly the laser unit on the end of the barrel made the weapon EXTREMELY front heavy (much more than an M203) and you'd get rather tired after a while trying to keep the barrel up out of the dirt.
The biggest problem with it though was you could be on a flat featureless plain with only one blade of grass on it - that single blade would stop the laser beam cold every time!
But the most annoying feature was the "god guns" the DS (Directing Staff) carried about. You could be crawling along in good cover unknown to the enemy and then beeeeeeeeeeeeep, a DS would take it upon themselves to turn you into a casualty. On the other hand, as a casualty you got to roll over on your back and take a rest for a while....

[dragoon500ly]

But the most annoying feature was the "god guns" the DS (Directing Staff) carried about. You could be crawling along in good cover unknown to the enemy and then beeeeeeeeeeeeep, a DS would take it upon themselves to turn you into a casualty. On the other hand, as a casualty you got to roll over on your back and take a rest for a while....

You always hated the god guns....until you got your chance to play with them!!!:D

The vehicle system always drove you nuts, especially when you got "near-missed", the early MILES had a software issue so that this happened, your own laser would not cycle for a minute or so...plenty of time for that other crew to nail you with their second round.

[pmulcahy11b]

The once a year qualify for your personal weapons was also a rather stupid idea, once a quarter would have been a lot better, but that would never fly.

Once a quarter was standard at the 82nd; once a year everywhere else (except during Desert Shield). And strangely enough, in the Texas Army National Guard, it was twice per year with the M16, once a year with the M60, and odd range days here and there for different weapons (like the M203, M202 Flash, shotgun, M3 Grease Gun, pistols, etc). We actually did a lot of shooting in the TXARNG. I had strange qualifications like rocket launcher, shotgun, and submachinegun.

[cavtroop]

Once a quarter was standard at the 82nd; once a year everywhere else (except during Desert Shield). And strangely enough, in the Texas Army National Guard, it was twice per year with the M16, once a year with the M60, and odd range days here and there for different weapons (like the M203, M202 Flash, shotgun, M3 Grease Gun, pistols, etc). We actually did a lot of shooting in the TXARNG. I had strange qualifications like rocket launcher, shotgun, and submachinegun.

I went years without firing a weapon in the Mass ARNG. What a complete joke that was.

[dragoon500ly]

During my time in the 2ACR, we always seemed to get extra funds for maneuvers whenever we were posted to the border. Our training area happened to be near an area were the French were having an FTX. One day, my tank was trail on a reaction force alert and we happened to drive past a company of AMX-30s doing an admin halt and all of the French tankers were standing in a group, smoking and joking. When they saw that we were Americans, we got the "universal sign of peace and love" and a couple decided that mooning was a funnier greeting.

I was cool, simply bowing in my hatch and giving a half-assed salute...and told my driver to fire up the smoke jenny....and left them hacking as we did our part for global warming!;)

[Rapparee]

Last exercise I was on, I got given 3 mags. They felt suspiciously light so on closer inspection I found I had a grand total of nine blanks per mag. The novelty wore off when on the second day I was told to provide fire support. Nothing worse then watching regular observers from the PDF piss themselves laughing at several of us imitating recoil and yelling "BANG!".

Range work, we usually only get a mag or two, for a couple of days, a couple of times.... I fondly remember my day when I got two full Steyr mags and told to use the automatic function on it. That same day, we all had to qualify on the GPMG :D Having carried it for three months, I was over the moon about getting to fire it!

I'll definetely push for my Corporals course in a couple of years, be sweet to use the USP, 203 and different versions of the Steyr!


That MILES thing does sound pretty cool though(shortcomings aside!). Scarily close to one of our training suggestions that we use paintball and airsofting to supplement our training :O!

[Legbreaker]

You got three mags of nine rounds each! Luxury!
I was on one exercise where we had an average of 11 rounds total per man which were to last 5 days!
The same exercise some brain back in the kitchens had forgotten to place the meat order. 400 hungry young men had just 10 lbs to last them all a week!
As a "sorry" one morning they send out hot porridge which would have been great it being the middle of winter. Problem was it was absolutely riddled with weevils! I suppose they had to give us our protein somehow...

[dragoon500ly]

How about getting C-Rats stamped "1945" and this was in 1978...

I still swear that the when the egg loaf can was opened that a green fog appeared!

[atiff]

The same exercise some brain back in the kitchens had forgotten to place the meat order. 400 hungry young men had just 10 lbs to last them all a week!
As a "sorry" one morning they send out hot porridge which would have been great it being the middle of winter. Problem was it was absolutely riddled with weevils! I suppose they had to give us our protein somehow...

Maybe they are trying to help simulate war conditions to improve your readiness for The Big One? :)

[Legbreaker]

Nope, it was a definate stuff up.
A few days before the "porridge incident" we were served tv dinner trays full of salad for lunch. Nice and fresh, yes, but it was the middle of winter and absolutely BUCKETING down with rain. The rain was coming down so hard that even on top of the hills there was something like two inches of cold water laying about (sleeping was soooo much fun). The "salad" was mainly lettuce and with the rain so heavy the trays filled up in about 30 seconds. Such an insubstantial and cold meal didn't do much for morale, soaked to the bone, and shivering as we were.

A week later and the place was a dust bowl...

[Abbott Shaull]

And MILES? I saw that only for major exercises, or the time that for some reason we got it for a joint exercise in the National Guard with the Air National Guard Security Police. And I mean MAJOR exercises, such as an NTC rotation or Team Spirit in Korea.

Speaking of MILES I remember when it was discovered all one need to do was to pull cocking handle of the M16 back and let it go when the laser on the end of the barrel was on. The jolt would register as the weapon being fired. It was an interesting field exercise that time out...lol Yeah it was funny that it seemed to only really come out for the MAJOR exercises so it was like twice or three times a year...

[HorseSoldier]

That MILES thing does sound pretty cool though(shortcomings aside!). Scarily close to one of our training suggestions that we use paintball and airsofting to supplement our training :O!

These days the US military has gotten heavily into the use of simunitions (or at least SOCOM has -- Big Army et al doesn't seem to have gotten quite as switched on) which are pretty similar to paint balls. They really help with people being MILES brave and playing the game rather than training. When you put a pain penalty onto doing the wrong thing it really makes people live right.

[Panther Al]

These days the US military has gotten heavily into the use of simunitions (or at least SOCOM has -- Big Army et al doesn't seem to have gotten quite as switched on) which are pretty similar to paint balls. They really help with people being MILES brave and playing the game rather than training. When you put a pain penalty onto doing the wrong thing it really makes people live right.

The stuff is great for training but as you say, rare as hens teeth in the normal army. Got to use it once and the blue uppers was a little weird, but you hav't lived until you stumble in front of a saw loaded with the stuff. Back when - was in they said it wasn't civie legal: anyone know if that's changed?

[Rapparee]

You got three mags of nine rounds each! Luxury!
I was on one exercise where we had an average of 11 rounds total per man which were to last 5 days!

I guess we just don't know how to make our bullets count like you guys! ;):D:p

The same exercise some brain back in the kitchens had forgotten to place the meat order. 400 hungry young men had just 10 lbs to last them all a week!
As a "sorry" one morning they send out hot porridge which would have been great it being the middle of winter. Problem was it was absolutely riddled with weevils! I suppose they had to give us our protein somehow...

Reminds me of the story my dad told me about his reserve service in the 70s. His company had come back down from Devils Bit mountain after general field exercises, lugging the Lee-Enfield .303's and Brens through the muck (the good aul days so I'm reminded!). Apparently the cooks and higher-ups didn't anticipate that one company eating the battalions entire food allocation in a feeding frenzy. Accordingly the company and battalion sergeant called a general assembly and all they could say was "Lads, ah cmon now, ye were that feckin' hungry!?"

[dragoon500ly]

One winter REFORGER, they were doing the field trails on the new T-Ration. We were coming right off of seven days straight of C-Ration and were looking forward to the admin-halt and a chance for hot food...

This was the menu:

A extra thin slice of meatloaf, still half frozen...an extra large scoop of green beans, fresh out of the can, and no it wasn't even warmed up....and for the T-ration....cherry julibee, lots and lots and lots of cherry julibee (did I mention that they had lots of cherry julibee?). To this day (15 years later) I still can't stand cherry julibee!!!

[dragoon500ly]

I was going through some of my granddad's papers this weekend and came across this, don't know if its true or not...but knowing some of the kooks that are in the service, I don't doubt this for a minute!!!!

It seems that in World War II, our heavy bomber crews were suffering from severe stomach distress from the diet heavy in starchs and beans, being at 30,000 feet tends to allow the gas to flow freely and due to the discomfort caused by this, as well as the problems with taking a dump when you have to remove most of your clothing and squat over a cardboard box at -20F caused a lot of flyers to skip the evening meal.

Except for one intrepid navigator. Our hero freely loaded up on beans, greens, and potatoes every night and took a large stock of cardboard boxes with him on every bomb run. During the run into the target, he would take every chance to fill as many boxes as possible. He would then stock pile his "packages" next to to the bomb bay. When the doors were opened and the ordnance was dropped he would then add his "flingershasse" to the drop.

There is no record of anybody being hit by these makeshift missiles...but if it had happened......talk about getting your shit blown away!!!!

[dragoon500ly]

You know, fighter pilots are a strange breed. And World War II pilots certainly were the strangest of the breed. Not only did we have P-38 pilots looping the Golden Gate Bridge back in the states, but we had P-47 pilots flying so low in their strafing runs that there are several recorded instances of them striking tree tops, flying back to Britain with lengths of telephone wire dangling from their ac....and one instance of a P-47 flying back to jolly ole England, with the propeller of the Fw 190 that he had shot down stuck in the side of his fuselage.

Guess that one was a confirmed kill :D

[Abbott Shaull]

Guess that one was a confirmed kill :D

Overachiever.

[dragoon500ly]

Overachiever.

Picture the face of the intelligence officer at the debriefing...

"Can you confirm your claim?"

CLUNK

"I don't think he got too far without his prop!"

[pmulcahy11b]

I saw one on Dogfights on History International where a P-47's wing sliced into a house during a dogfight. He not only flew home, he went on to take the German he was chasing down.

[dragoon500ly]

There is also the story of a P-47 pilot doing his bit to destroy the German telephone system....there is a photo that shows part of the telephone pole still embedded in the leading edge of his wing.

[Abbott Shaull]

Picture the face of the intelligence officer at the debriefing...

"Can you confirm your claim?"

CLUNK

"I don't think he got too far without his prop!"

Kinda reminds me of the movie "Top Gun" when they were ask how they knew a Mig-?? could do that, and they reply to something of to the effect they gave the pilot of said MIG the bird...lol

[Abbott Shaull]

There is also the story of a P-47 pilot doing his bit to destroy the German telephone system....there is a photo that shows part of the telephone pole still embedded in the leading edge of his wing.

Not many aircraft of today age could do that.

[dragoon500ly]

Not many aircraft of today age could do that.

The only one that could even come close to the old P-47 is perhaps the A-10. Altough what the Air Force would do to a Warthawg pilot that hit a telephone pole......

It's kind of amazing just how much damage that the P-47 could take and still return to base...there are photos of flak damage that would have sent a F-16 into the ground and yet the Jug kept flying. Entire cylinders shot off off the engine and it still kept grinding. It may have not been the fastest, longest-ranged or best looking fighter of WWII....but I think that if I wasa pilot back then, then this is the fighter that I would want to be in.

[pmulcahy11b]

There was an O-1 Bird Dog in Vietnam that got back to base minus 4 feet of wing courtesy of a ZU-23.

[Abbott Shaull]

During my 2nd enlistment, I was assigned as an instructor to the Armor School at Fort Knox, Kentucky. Teaching the young'ns all about the M-60A1 tank, this happened (thank gawd!) to another company on the tank range.

Some background for those who have never served on a tank.

The M-60A1 uses a ballistic computer, unlike the modern computer on the M-1, the M60's used a series of geared wheels and cams to input the correct adjustment to the gun tube. To operate, you grasped a t-handle and pushed/pulled to index the correct round. The primary reason for the elevation adjustment is that antitank rounds such as the APDS round are high speed, flat-trajectory rounds, whereas rounds such as HEAT or HEP are low speed, high-trajectory rounds. Herein lies our tale...

One young student gunner had finished his assigned rounds and while exiting the gunner's seat, snagged the handle of the computer and pulled the setting from APDS to HEP.

The new gunner, in his excitment, thought that he had checked the computer and had APDS indexed. The loader placed a APDS training round in the tube and the gunner prepared to fire at the 2,000 meter target. The instructor tank commander failed to notice that the gun tube was at a "unusually high" angle and ordered the gunner to "FIRE!"

On a nearby range, I was coaching trainees on the use of the M-85 machinegun and happened to observe the tracer of a main caliber round flying well over the berm and disappearing well down range.

Needless to say, Range Control had a MAJOR hissy fit and shut down all of the ranges while they investigated.

The training sabot impacted 13 miles downrange, striking a Range Control storage shed, penetrating the roof, several stacks of targets, the concrete slab, and burying itself 7 feet into the ground.

The trainee gunner received a major "arse-chewing". The instructor tank commander received an Article 15 from the Training Brigade Commander and went from Staff Sergeant, E-6 to Private, E-1 in about 2.5 seconds.

Ouch. So was this E-6 a Drill Sergeant or just technical instructor? Either way what a way to lose rank and pay drop...

[Abbott Shaull]

Tony,

There is an intresting story out of one of the Red Flag exercises held in Nevada. It seems that the RAF sent some Buccaneers over as Red Force bombers. The USAF, with its brand new F-15Cs was looking forward to nailing the RAF...so much so that a case of Dewar's Scotch was bet on the outcome.

The result...

RAF made 12 attacks on targets and never lost a single plane. They did it by doing nap of the earth, at less than 100 feet altitude and at high speed. It turns out the much-vaunted Eagles couldn't see on radar at such low altitude, and that the older Buccaneers, were faster and more maneuverable than the Eagles at low level.

Game, set and match to the Royal Air Force!!!!! :D

It what happens when you believe your own hype and not take into account the reality of what the vehicle/aircraft can actual do.

[Abbott Shaull]

The only one that could even come close to the old P-47 is perhaps the A-10. Altough what the Air Force would do to a Warthawg pilot that hit a telephone pole......

It's kind of amazing just how much damage that the P-47 could take and still return to base...there are photos of flak damage that would have sent a F-16 into the ground and yet the Jug kept flying. Entire cylinders shot off off the engine and it still kept grinding. It may have not been the fastest, longest-ranged or best looking fighter of WWII....but I think that if I wasa pilot back then, then this is the fighter that I would want to be in.

Yeah but the A-10 is built like those old aircraft when you consider it armored bath tub with wings...

[Abbott Shaull]

There was an O-1 Bird Dog in Vietnam that got back to base minus 4 feet of wing courtesy of a ZU-23.

Again this wasn't the state of art aircraft that we are used to today. After the A-10 as mention the other aircraft is the C-130 in being able to survive...

[Adm.Lee]

Again this wasn't the state of art aircraft that we are used to today. After the A-10 as mention the other aircraft is the C-130 in being able to survive...

The C-47/DC-3 might rank up there, too. At least one lost a few feet off a wing to one of the Himalaya Mountains, and flew home. Another was rammed by a Japanese fighter and survived to come home. All this, and there are some still flying today, 70+ years after the design was first built.

[Panther Al]

For what its worth, there are those pics out there showing an IDF F15 landing with one wing missing.

[pmulcahy11b]

For what its worth, there are those pics out there showing an IDF F15 landing with one wing missing.

I don't know...I looked it up on Google and saw the pictures...even saw a YouTube video from the History Channel about it...but something smells bad about this story.

[helbent4]

Group,

Does this count as a stupid GI trick, or just wacky?

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/MechanixIllustrated/4-1956/helicopter_cavalry/med_helicopter_cavalry_0.jpg

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2009/01/01/lets-use-helicopter-cavalry/?Qwd=./MechanixIllustrated/4-1956/helicopter_cavalry&Qif=helicopter_cavalry_2.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=XL#qdig

Of course, air cavalry is nothing crazy! Just a fanciful application of the concept, circa 1956.

Check out the comments! Priceless.

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

Ouch. So was this E-6 a Drill Sergeant or just technical instructor? Either way what a way to lose rank and pay drop...

He was a tech instructor....or should I say a former tech instructor!

[dragoon500ly]

The C-47/DC-3 might rank up there, too. At least one lost a few feet off a wing to one of the Himalaya Mountains, and flew home. Another was rammed by a Japanese fighter and survived to come home. All this, and there are some still flying today, 70+ years after the design was first built.

Don't forget the B-17 that got rammed by a Fw 190, cutting all but the keel and a couple of feet right behind the waist guns, the Flying Fortress made it back to England, landed and then the tail dropped off.

Watching those old b&w films can show some pretty amazing stuff.

[Abbott Shaull]

He was a tech instructor....or should I say a former tech instructor!

Ouch. Yeah I had to ask because the way it was written. So do the Drill Sergeants at Fort Knox do any of the tank gunnery instructions or is this done by a support unit that specializes in giving these instruction to units as they rotate through their Basic Training/Advance Individual Training cycles.

I know at Benning, there were member of the the 29th Infantry that would do more detail instructions of the various weapons system beyond the basic upkeep of the M16.

I also realize a lot depending from training unit to training unit on how much support they would get from various support units assigned to the various Training Brigades.

[Abbott Shaull]

Don't forget the B-17 that got rammed by a Fw 190, cutting all but the keel and a couple of feet right behind the waist guns, the Flying Fortress made it back to England, landed and then the tail dropped off.

Watching those old b&w films can show some pretty amazing stuff.

Yeah those old B-17s and even the B-24 I think they were would come back in stock footage with damage that would send other aircraft spiral down to the ground...

[dragoon500ly]

Ouch. Yeah I had to ask because the way it was written. So do the Drill Sergeants at Fort Knox do any of the tank gunnery instructions or is this done by a support unit that specializes in giving these instruction to units as they rotate through their Basic Training/Advance Individual Training cycles.

I know at Benning, there were member of the the 29th Infantry that would do more detail instructions of the various weapons system beyond the basic upkeep of the M16.

I also realize a lot depending from training unit to training unit on how much support they would get from various support units assigned to the various Training Brigades.

When I was stationed at Knox, the Armor School used instructors rather than using the DIs. The problem was that they had to rotate through the instructor's course in order to pick up the Hotel identifier, so you would see a 19K30H running a section. The problem was that the school had a eleven-month backlog when I was there so a lot of instructors were E-5/6s pulled from various bases or, and this is what I hated, they would pull the best students and make them "acting corporals" and use them as instructors.

When I went to Germany for my 2nd tour I was assigned as a Section Sergeant and I always made it a point to ask if the new personal had acting corporals, that told just how much retraining I had to do to get the kids qualified.

[Abbott Shaull]

When I was stationed at Knox, the Armor School used instructors rather than using the DIs. The problem was that they had to rotate through the instructor's course in order to pick up the Hotel identifier, so you would see a 19K30H running a section. The problem was that the school had a eleven-month backlog when I was there so a lot of instructors were E-5/6s pulled from various bases or, and this is what I hated, they would pull the best students and make them "acting corporals" and use them as instructors.

When I went to Germany for my 2nd tour I was assigned as a Section Sergeant and I always made it a point to ask if the new personal had acting corporals, that told just how much retraining I had to do to get the kids qualified.

Ouch "acting Corporals"... So what was harder, retraining an "Acting Corporal" or their students...

[dragoon500ly]

Ouch "acting Corporals"... So what was harder, retraining an "Acting Corporal" or their students...

:D

Three guesses?

And if you say both then you win a a real life John Wayne Bar! (You do have dental insurance?)

[pmulcahy11b]

And if you say both then you win a a real life John Wayne Bar! (You do have dental insurance?)

I didn't like John Wayne Bars -- they made me fart.

[dragoon500ly]

I didn't like John Wayne Bars -- they made me fart.

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk, Paul....you've forgotten the essential truths of John Wayne bars:

John Wayne bars were epoxyed to the front slope of the tank...damned things increased your armor protection by a factor of 150!!!!!

You could also use them as deadly ninja throwing stars and cut trees down with them!!!

And if you were really, truely darn-near starving, then you could hit the grizzily over the head with one and eat the grizzily! LOL!

:D

[TiggerCCW UK]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk, Paul....you've forgotten the essential truths of John Wayne bars:

John Wayne bars were epoxyed to the front slope of the tank...damned things increased your armor protection by a factor of 150!!!!!

You could also use them as deadly ninja throwing stars and cut trees down with them!!!

And if you were really, truely darn-near starving, then you could hit the grizzily over the head with one and eat the grizzily! LOL!

:D

Sounds like the old 'Biscuits, Brown' in the compo ration packs :-)

[LBraden]

The British Army Biscuit, by the Official Secrets Act, I cannot tell you what they are used for now, but damn its bloody effective at its current job (and anyone who as eaten them have a GOOD idea how hard these things are, and may twig)

Seriously, running gag that some squaddies think is that the old biscuits are now being used as auxiliary armour on the light tanks.

[Legbreaker]

Or the Cereal, Compressed in the Australian Rat packs. Mind you, I quite liked the taste even if they did require your teeth to be recapped every so often... ;)

[dragoon500ly]

Back in the day, when C-Rations were the main meal of choice...the most hated one was the Ham & Lima Beans ration. Heated, this one was disgusting, eaten cold....well let's just say that if given the choice of taking on a grizzily or eating H&L, well Mr. Grizzily, two falls out of three?

Favorite joke passed around was that H&L was intended for prisioner interrogation, sort of "talk or we'll make you eat more!"

Of course, the H&L did have its usage. During on FTX we were "completely tactical", no lights, no radios, no fires, no visible signature. Normally, this is not a problem, but it was the middile of winter in Ft Hood, with a nice "norther" blowing and dumping snow and 15degree weather. Our fearless company commander had been a serious "pita" since his assignment to the company and it was decided to teach him a little lesson. The line platoons raided the CP after hours while the captain was at a meeting with the Bn CO, we left two cases of c-rations for the "midrats", knowing that only the captain would be indulging. And yes we took to time to load 24 Ham & Lima Bean meals.

When he came back and grabbed a charlie-rat, hearing the sudden outburst of cursing come out of the CP was music to our ears.

[Abbott Shaull]

Back in the day, when C-Rations were the main meal of choice...the most hated one was the Ham & Lima Beans ration. Heated, this one was disgusting, eaten cold....well let's just say that if given the choice of taking on a grizzily or eating H&L, well Mr. Grizzily, two falls out of three?

Favorite joke passed around was that H&L was intended for prisioner interrogation, sort of "talk or we'll make you eat more!"

Of course, the H&L did have its usage. During on FTX we were "completely tactical", no lights, no radios, no fires, no visible signature. Normally, this is not a problem, but it was the middile of winter in Ft Hood, with a nice "norther" blowing and dumping snow and 15degree weather. Our fearless company commander had been a serious "pita" since his assignment to the company and it was decided to teach him a little lesson. The line platoons raided the CP after hours while the captain was at a meeting with the Bn CO, we left two cases of c-rations for the "midrats", knowing that only the captain would be indulging. And yes we took to time to load 24 Ham & Lima Bean meals.

When he came back and grabbed a charlie-rat, hearing the sudden outburst of cursing come out of the CP was music to our ears.

Let me guess he seem to have all the good c-rats before they distributed to the troops.

I am sure your units wasn't the only one to do this to a Company Commander that they didn't like.

So would this be during the same FTX that happen over the holidays or different one.

[dragoon500ly]

Let me guess he seem to have all the good c-rats before they distributed to the troops.

I am sure your units wasn't the only one to do this to a Company Commander that they didn't like.

So would this be during the same FTX that happen over the holidays or different one.

Well, lets just say that he felt that rank had its....and that he took every advantage!

It was a bridge-ex in early December.

[Panther Al]

I always missed the spicy meatballs, about the only one in my unit granted, but still. The charms was always good for a laugh though as most thought them cursed- once tossed a pack in Hutch's hummvee and laughed my ass off as he leapt out of is if a grenade was tossed. He would't even get back in unless someone else would get them out of his ride.

[Abbott Shaull]

I remember the Chicken ala King MREs it seems almost every part of the chicken was found at some point or time in that meal, to hear others talk about. Come to think about it it was the one meal I would wait until it too dark to tell what it was. I rather not see what I wasn't suppose to eat...lol..

[pmulcahy11b]

I remember the Chicken ala King MREs it seems almost every part of the chicken was found at some point or time in that meal, to hear others talk about. Come to think about it it was the one meal I would wait until it too dark to tell what it was. I rather not see what I wasn't suppose to eat...lol..

Chicken a la King sucked cold (which was the way we normally ate it), but was pretty good hot.

[dragoon500ly]

Chicken a la King sucked cold (which was the way we normally ate it), but was pretty good hot.

mmmmmmmm...those freeze-dried pork patties, you could break a piece off, let it soak in your mouth and it still tasted like wet cardboard!

[Abbott Shaull]

mmmmmmmm...those freeze-dried pork patties, you could break a piece off, let it soak in your mouth and it still tasted like wet cardboard!

The freeze dried beef patty wasn't much better. Now only if they threw noodles into those MRE packs...lol

[Adm.Lee]

At Origins in Columbus, I think it was the first year there, I was a participant in Europa-fest, a sub-convention for devotees of the Europa series (also by GDW). Winston Hamilton (RIP) was the president of GRD, which had taken over the series recently. The year previous at the "banquet," the food had run out early. This year (1996?) he had promised there would be plenty of it, and it would be a surprise.

As it's related to the posts above, you can guess what the surprise was-- 2 cases of MRE. My ROTC knowledge extended as far as avoiding the chicken ala king.

[pmulcahy11b]

The freeze dried beef patty wasn't much better. Now only if they threw noodles into those MRE packs...lol

The worst was that tunafish salad they experimented with in the late-1980s -- I noticed that left the menu real fast. Still, there was always someone around that liked it...

[Legbreaker]

The worst (in my opinion) in the Australian ration packs was anything with egg in it - Steak and Egg, Ham and Egg.
The best was Beef and Tortellini :P

[Abbott Shaull]

The worst was that tunafish salad they experimented with in the late-1980s -- I noticed that left the menu real fast. Still, there was always someone around that liked it...

Never had it but I probably would of miss seeing it go...

[Abbott Shaull]

The worst (in my opinion) in the Australian ration packs was anything with egg in it - Steak and Egg, Ham and Egg.
The best was Beef and Tortellini :P
Yeah I am glad that I never had to suffer through the breakfast MREs...

[dragoon500ly]

The worst was that tunafish salad they experimented with in the late-1980s -- I noticed that left the menu real fast. Still, there was always someone around that liked it...

Just goes to prove, there is always some sick SOB out there!

But enough about me....:p

They once tried tuna with noodles...that one didn't last long either.

The was once a C-Ration that was called Meat & Potatoes...the meat was pure gristle and the potatoes could be used as the filling for a canister round (and there were some tankers who were convinced that this was indeed true).

And then there was egg loaf....what can I say about this one? Lets just say that eaten cold it left one with a strong desire to find a tree and stick a finger in one's throat...but the knowledge of how bad it tasted going down, made strong men weak, because how bad could it possibly taste coming back up?

[Legbreaker]

Yeah I am glad that I never had to suffer through the breakfast MREs...

Who said it was meant to be breakfast.... They were supposed to be dinner!

[Sanjuro]

This will probably seem familiar after post 17...
In the mid 80s I spent 3 years as a student in a University Air Squadron (AFROTC equivalent, with 30-40 hours flying per year).
We flew the Scottish Aviation Bulldog, a trainer with similar performance to the T34, but a quite lethal reputation for not recovering from spins.
Our training required spin recovery practice every month.
One of the bases we used was RAF Woodvale, just north of Liverpool. A little to the northwest was Southport, then still quite popular as a seaside resort, and with extensive beaches. The beach also had a section approved as an emergency landing ground.
One summer, a Bulldog of a visiting squadron (not ours!) was doing spin training over the beach, and failed to recover. This was not unknown, given the 10,000 feet per minute descent rate in the spin, and rotation rate of 180 degrees per second. Both the instructor and student bailed out, and landed safely by parachute on the beach- the wind in fact carried them close to a large group of bikini-clad beach babes, who rushed to help. :D
So far so good, just that year's Bulldog loss, no one hurt.
The squadron CO then flew over, saw one of his aircraft wrecked on the beach, and decided to land to investigate. He found a patch of soft sand, the undercarriage dug in, and his aircraft then tipped over and was written off. This arrival was far less impressive for the beach babes...

[bobcat]

its funny how on some field problems soldiers will adopt procedures that while they are actually doctrine, annoy the chain of command(partly because no one on the OP is supposed to know that its doctrine)

example: fort drum, February 2006. my first field problem with my shiny new recon unit in tenth mountain the commander had my platoon setting up an OP. now the 19D's were mounted but me and my 11B's weren't, and anyone thats faced a fort drum blizzard can tell you how much that sucks. now because this was a "tactical" situation we weren't allowed any open fires, noise and light discipline all around. so we built an igloo for the 6 of us on that particular OP, and had a couple of 8 hour candles lit inside in small cut outs. with viewing/firing points cut into it and a ventilation hole.

after 36 hours when our pickup arrives (12 hours behind schedule) we find out the roads have been shut down for safety reasons for the past day, and our PL decided to chew us out for the igloo. naturally the FNG history buff of an FO they had (me) pointed out that not only was the igloo doctrinal, but considering it dropped to -70 it was our best option to meet the CO's guidance of no cold weather injuries. oddly enough i actually got away with calling him a dumbass in that conversation.

[Abbott Shaull]

after 36 hours when our pickup arrives (12 hours behind schedule) we find out the roads have been shut down for safety reasons for the past day, and our PL decided to chew us out for the igloo. naturally the FNG history buff of an FO they had (me) pointed out that not only was the igloo doctrinal, but considering it dropped to -70 it was our best option to meet the CO's guidance of no cold weather injuries. oddly enough i actually got away with calling him a dumbass in that conversation.

Probably one of the few time when Officer has to allow this to happen. For if he tries to discipline you and if you Platoon Sergeant allows him to pursue they both look foolish as well as making your CO and Company First Sergeant looking like fools too. Sometimes it works out where as an enlisted man you can say anything you want as long as you include "Cur" in the phrase.

[dragoon500ly]

Probably one of the few time when Officer has to allow this to happen. For if he tries to discipline you and if you Platoon Sergeant allows him to pursue they both look foolish as well as making your CO and Company First Sergeant looking like fools too. Sometimes it works out where as an enlisted man you can say anything you want as long as you include "Cur" in the phrase.

There is a story out of the 1st Air Cav in Vietnam of a PL ordering an airstrike on his own position in error. The legend goes that while F-100s were dropping 250lb bombs on the dug-in platoon, his SFC looked over and said "I wonder what fucking dipshit pulled this one....sir!"

[pmulcahy11b]

There is a story out of the 1st Air Cav in Vietnam of a PL ordering an airstrike on his own position in error. The legend goes that while F-100s were dropping 250lb bombs on the dug-in platoon, his SFC looked over and said "I wonder what fucking dipshit pulled this one....sir!"

I'll bet some variation of that happened more than once, and is still happening. Air strikes, artillery, mortars.

[dragoon500ly]

I'll bet some variation of that happened more than once, and is still happening. Air strikes, artillery, mortars.

And it proably dates all the back to the walls of Troy were the grizziled old warrior turned to the young nobleman and said "So explain to me again why its a good idea to try to attack the walls were those assholes are pouring flaming oil....sir?"

[Abbott Shaull]

You are probably correct that it is an old tradition that goes back for the ages...

[dragoon500ly]

One REFORGER, my squadron was on its why back to the ole kaserne looking forward to getting really clean again and enjoying hot food when we got orders to join a field exercise. It seems that somebody in VIII Corps Headquarters thought it would be a good idea to take a brigade from 3ID, a squadron from 2ACR and send us south of Munich into the German II Corps area to play games with thier 4PGD.

For much of my career, I've been armored or scouts and had never had to work with mech inf, so this was a new experience...and one that I never wanted to have again.

The officer in question was a Lieutenant Colonel Reynolds or "BIG SIX" as he liked to be called on the radio...he even had it mounted on a holder on the front of his jeep. And Big Six was the biggest, baddest battalion commander to ever be graced with the position. That's right, a real legend in his own mind!

Our troop was pulled into an admin position because of our having taken part in REFORGER and having been entrained for the last nine hours. We needed the time to pull maintenance, and catch up on food/sleep and we were placed there while the rest of the squadron was arriving.

The first time I saw Big Dick was when his jeep, with an honest-to-god-no-lie-GI siren blaring pulled into our area. Big Dick hopped out of his jeep wearing a patent-leather belt with holster with some nickel-plated pos shoved in. Spit-shined boots, starched BDUs and parka and wearing a M-1 helmet liner (the rest of us were wearing kevlar) that must have had thirty coats of ole Mop-And-Glow for that deep shine gave fair warning of what we were about to endure.

You guessed it sport fans!

The Big Dick wanted to conduct an inspection of every vehicle, weapon, protective mask, CEOI, and piece of classified gear that we had. Big Dick, followed by his aide, a 1st Lt, dressed just like dad and carrying a nice little book to note every word his god uttered proceeded, to rip every trooper a new one! Everything from boots not being shined to his battalion standards, to uniforms needing to be washed, dirty vehicles, troopers not in proper uniform, unauthorized flags on the vehicles right on down to rusty end connectors on the tanks. For the next five hours the Big Dick strutted around, followed by his aide, taking names and threatening Article 15s left and right.

While this dog-and-pony show was going on, the remainder of the 3rd Squadron pulled into the siding and started to unload.

Our troop commander was a damn-fine officer, but he was tied up trying to keep up with the BIG DICK. But the First Sergeant had the time to grab a CVC and entered the squadron command net and let them know who was present.

Our squadron commander had just made the list for O-6 and was waiting for the paperwork to process before he pinned his eagle on. He showed up, wearing mud splattered BDUs and a soft cap and walked up on Big Sick, just as he was dismounting my tank...and even now, I can still remember that moment.

The Big Dork stared at our boss and demanded why he didn't salute a superior officer. Our colonel carefully looked him up and down and replied "I'm waiting for the junior officer to remember proper military protocol" Our colonel had a certain style all his own, the more pissed off he was, the lower, quieter and more polite he became, by this time the troopers in the area were looking for cover because our boss was almost whispering.

I guess something in our colonel's eye finally caught the attention of Big Dickless because he finally asked just what our colonel's date of rank was....when he got the answer, this sort of sick-looking grin appeared on his face as he saluted and stuttered "I thought I was in charge of this operation." As our colonel dropped his salute, he whispered back "That's what you get for thinking colonel!"

Since I was standing at attention less than 3 feet away, our colonel looked at me "Sergeant, is your vehicle combat ready?" Of course I replied "YES SIR!!!!"

"Return to your duties then sergeant!" "ALWAYS READY SIR!!!" and I cracked a salute and retrograded out of the area.

The Big Dork then proceeded to get his tail end reemed by a cavalry Lieutenant Colonel, promotable, a graduate of the Citadel, a combat vet of the Black Horse and an expert in tearing a new asshole in his victim while never raising his voice and never cursing.

Too bad I didn't have a camcorder, could have won $10,000 on america's funnest videos...or an even larger fortune selling copies to my squadron!!!!!
:p

[Abbott Shaull]

So was the dick in question from the 3rd ID Brigade you were to work with?

[dragoon500ly]

So was the dick in question from the 3rd ID Brigade you were to work with?

Rock(heads) of the Marne!

It was always a kinda of an odd thing, but whenever 2ACR had to be pulled off of its border patrol duties for gunnery/field exercises, our relief was always pulled from the 3ID...and when we got back, the BGS troopers would inquire as to just where the US Army had located that band of idiots.

Then there was the rock wars...being a cavalry outfit, the dog-and-pony show always kept the big rock right outside of the border camp gate painted red/white...whenever the 3ID showed up, the rock got painted blue/white stripes. We would come back and get orders to paint the rock again. It was always an article of faith among the troopers that the rock had originally started life the size of a baseball and had accumulated so many layers of paint that it was now the size of a VW Bug!

You know the Russians who were watching this entertainment had to be convinced that it was actually some kind of propaganda ploy...because they were always painting this rock red with the ole yellow hammer/sickle...on their side of the grenze!

[Abbott Shaull]

You know the Russians who were watching this entertainment had to be convinced that it was actually some kind of propaganda ploy...because they were always painting this rock red with the ole yellow hammer/sickle...on their side of the grenze!

Funny thing is there are stories that at Naval Bases near St Petersburg in which had rather high cliffs nearby where during one of the inspection they were ordered to be painted some color that alludes me this morning, but it was one of those wasteful things that was kept up to help occupy time of the sailors when they didn't have much else to do.

Much like soldier in the Ukraine who would be used as general laborers on the local collectives to harvest bumper crops...

[pmulcahy11b]

And how many of us have painted rocks or cut hedges into squares?

[dragoon500ly]

And how many of us have painted rocks or cut hedges into squares?

How did it go?

If you can't pick it up, paint it!

If you can't paint it, salute it!

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah the things that Commanders would come up with to keep troops busy...

[weswood]

I remember one Team Spirit Ex in Korea the Capt had me washing rocks and putting them on a wood boardwalk. Mud off the walk was 6" deep. I made sure every time someone would ask who's bright idea it was, I told them EXACTLY who. "That would be Capt McMannis' bright idea, SgtMaj."

[Abbott Shaull]

I remember one Team Spirit Ex in Korea the Capt had me washing rocks and putting them on a wood boardwalk. Mud off the walk was 6" deep. I made sure every time someone would ask who's bright idea it was, I told them EXACTLY who. "That would be Capt McMannis' bright idea, SgtMaj."

Oh I wonder how the conversation went between the the good Captain and the Sergeant Major afterwards...

[weswood]

Oh I wonder how the conversation went between the the good Captain and the Sergeant Major afterwards...

I was a smart Lcpl, I kept my head down for that one ;)

[Abbott Shaull]

I was a smart Lcpl, I kept my head down for that one ;)

You know there is reason why the top NCO is First Sergeant and not Sergeant Major...lol Yeah I think I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that conversation too. No sense of drawing attention to yourself from the Sergeant Major... The only thing worse is when said Captain goes to the Colonel to complain and has to give the said Captain the same speech the Captain gives his 2 Lts on the regular basis when the Company First Sergeant or even the Platoon Sergeant gives the 2nd Lt an ass chewing...lol

It goes something along the lines, wipe your nose son, suck it up, and drive on...lol

[pmulcahy11b]

One of the best conversations I ever overheard was a Lieutenant complaining to the Commander about something the Sergeant Major said to him. The Commander said:

"You mean that the Sergeant Major gave you a suggestion and you didn't even consider it?!" And then the Commander gave the Lieutenant a "dumbshit Lieutenant" sort of laugh...

[Abbott Shaull]

One of the best conversations I ever overheard was a Lieutenant complaining to the Commander about something the Sergeant Major said to him. The Commander said:

"You mean that the Sergeant Major gave you a suggestion and you didn't even consider it?!" And then the Commander gave the Lieutenant a "dumbshit Lieutenant" sort of laugh...

Yeah, the next best thing is when the immediate Commander gives an order that you can't perform. After said Commanders comes to whine...uhm chew ass and the senior NCO tells him they didn't have what they needed to perform the job. All the while the said Commander boss is there and states with straight face that the NCO had a point in such a fashion as to not laugh at him, but in firm enough voice that junior Commander knows he shouldn't push the issue.

[dragoon500ly]

There is a story that comes out of Armor Officer Basic, that dates back to when ole George Patton was organizing the OCS school at Fort Know prior to WWII...

The story goes that Patton gathered the first group of candiates together and said "Gentlemen! This is your first lesson in how to be an officer! I want this flag pole erected before retreat!"

He then stood back and listened to the converstations that followed. Various plans to use tripods or manpower to raise the pole, how deep to dig the foundation, when to mount the hardware, and so on...

GSP finally called the group to attention and said "Gentlemen, I have listened to your various ideas and you have come up with some intresting ideas. But you are in training to become officers. There is only one correct answer to the question of getting this flag pole erected in time for retreat." George then turned to a NCO who was standing nearby. "Sergeant, organize a detail and have this flag pole erected in time for retreat!"

There are many who concentrate on the infamous slapping incidents, on GSP's outbursts with the press, there are even some you claim that he was promoted to fast and to high a position. But no soldier who ever served in the Third Army under him, ever had anything but the highest of praise for him as a fighter, and above all else as an officer and as a leader.

[Abbott Shaull]

There is a story that comes out of Armor Officer Basic, that dates back to when ole George Patton was organizing the OCS school at Fort Know prior to WWII...

The story goes that Patton gathered the first group of candiates together and said "Gentlemen! This is your first lesson in how to be an officer! I want this flag pole erected before retreat!"

He then stood back and listened to the converstations that followed. Various plans to use tripods or manpower to raise the pole, how deep to dig the foundation, when to mount the hardware, and so on...

GSP finally called the group to attention and said "Gentlemen, I have listened to your various ideas and you have come up with some intresting ideas. But you are in training to become officers. There is only one correct answer to the question of getting this flag pole erected in time for retreat." George then turned to a NCO who was standing nearby. "Sergeant, organize a detail and have this flag pole erected in time for retreat!"

There are many who concentrate on the infamous slapping incidents, on GSP's outbursts with the press, there are even some you claim that he was promoted to fast and to high a position. But no soldier who ever served in the Third Army under him, ever had anything but the highest of praise for him as a fighter, and above all else as an officer and as a leader.

Yeah GSP could arguably one of the first General to be ripped apart by the Press. During the Civil War, Generals were raked over the coal regardless if they deserved it or not.

GSP was a great leader and believed in leading from the front, not some HQ behind the line. Most Generals have done something to the extent of his outburst with the press or worst. Lot of the time, it all depends how well HQ can suppress the information.

Just like the recent General who was dismissed from Afghanistan several months ago. I am pretty sure all Generals and HQs have their dirty little secret about how they feel about their orders and who is leading them.

[dragoon500ly]

Ever wondered on how a Black Jack Pershing, a George Patton, or a Erwin Rommel would have fit into today's military?

Would strategic mistakes like not finishing Desert Storm by seizing Basrah, not completing the fighting in Afghanistan before invading Iraq, or not blocking in Ossoma prior to cleaning out Bora-Bora have been allowed by any of these generals?

Or even better...would GSP have told Bush/Obama were to shove their stars and ripped them both new orifices after he had retired?