State Guards in T2K (Includes User-made Unit) [Archive]

Raellus

12-31-2016, 02:01 PM

BACKGROUND

Originally a small, unarmed civil defense force consisting of around 50 part-time, unpaid members, the state defense force of New Mexico served pre-war in a diverse range of capacities, including radio communications, medical, honor guard, chaplaincy, heavy vehicle driving/maintenance, and public affairs. The NMSG also maintained a separate medical unit, the 47th Medical Company, which was trained to respond to assorted man-made and natural disasters.

With the outbreak of WWIII, the NMSG was expanded but continued to serve in the same support roles. Now incorporating large numbers of personnel over the draft ceiling age, the NMSG was derisively nicknamed the 'Depends Brigade'*. The bulk of the reinforced NMSG was deployed to the El Paso area in late 1997 to assist in disaster relief operations following the Soviet .25 megaton nuclear strike on the city's oil refinery.

The United States government, at both federal and state levels, was unprepared and ill-equipped to meet the surprise Mexican invasion of the southwest. By 1998, most Air Force combat wings, and regular army and national guard units, had been deployed overseas, leaving CONUS defenses badly overstretched. The defense of New Mexico fell to the Fort Bliss School Brigade, assorted USAF base security personnel from Holloman and Kirtland AFB's, and the State Guard.

In 1998, armed with obsolete weaponry from dusty New Mexico National Guard (NMNG) stockpiles, elements of the NMSG were rushed to the Las Cruces area to assist the School Brigade in defending the city from Mexican invaders. Badly mauled by well-armed Mexican regulars, most of the survivors fell back on Albuquerque to form the cadre of a rebuilt state guard. Acting on their own, without orders, a few doughty NMSG personnel stayed behind to organize small partisan bands behind Mexican lines.

On new year's day, 1999, citing the civilian government's failure to defend the state, Kirtland AFB commander, Colonel Cliff Reynolds, with the collusion of Santa Fe County Sheriff, Michael Villa, took over as governor of New Mexico, declaring martial law, dissolving the state legislature, and relocating the capitol to Albuquerque. In order to consolidate his control of the state, Governor Reynolds authorized the rebuilding and reorganization of the SDSG, rechristening it the New Mexico State Defense Force and transforming what had been a lightly armed civil defense force into a paramilitary army capable of offensive operations and answering directly to the state governor. The revamped NMSDF was formed around a core of loyal USAF personnel, surviving members of the State Guard, and local law enforcement personnel. Reynolds's authorization order also attempted to subsume every other armed resistance/partisan group still operating in the state, with mixed results. Several groups rallied to the flag, others paid only lip service while using their new official designation to give their marauding activities a thin veneer of legitimacy. Some groups ignored the authorization order altogether, continuing to operate independently.

In an effort to make himself indispensable to MilGov, Governor Reynolds announced his intention to liberate southern New Mexico, with a planned early summer 2001 offensive spearheaded by his refurbished NMSG.

TOE

UNIFORM

The pre-war New Mexico State Guard was issued woodland pattern BDUs, then in widespread use by all major branches of the U.S. military. This remained the standard combat uniform of the NMSG/NMSDF throughout the course of the war. Government-issue fatigues were supplemented by army surplus and private stock (some state law enforcement SWAT teams also used woodland pattern BDU). A large stockpile of Desert ("Chocolate Chip" pattern) BDUs was discovered in storage and issued as well. Regardless of attempts to create a standard NMSDF uniform, various non-standard field uniform configurations have been documented. Given the climate of New Mexico in the summer months, army surplus O.D. jungle fatigues were a popular, fairly common alternative. Many items of civilian clothing (especially footwear) were used as well.

In order to aid in recognition and avoid friendly-fire incidents, NMSDF were instructed to wear a yellow arm and/or helmet band while operating in the field (yellow being the predominant color of the New Mexico state flag).

NMSG/NMSDF load bearing equipment is mostly the ALICE pattern. Modern body armor has never been widely available to the force. M1 "Steel Pot" helmets continue to much more common in the ranks than the newer PAGST Kevlar "K-Pot" (aka "Fritz) helmet. Similarly, there are more Vietnam-era M-69 nylon flak vests than modern PAGST Kevlar vests currently in NMSDF service, but body armor in general is scarce.

WEAPONS

Just prior to its combat debut, the New Mexico State Guard was equipped with obsolescent military weaponry and equipment drawn from reserve NMNG storage. M14 battle rifles, M3 submachineguns, M1911A1 pistols, and M1918 BARs are still standard issue, supplemented by civilian and law enforcement M16 and Mini-14 assault rifles, and sundry department issue and personal sidearms. Various pieces of military weaponry captured from Mexican forces have also been put into use.

NMSG heavy weapons consist of a handful of M40 105mm and M67 90mm recoilless rifles, early versions of the M72 LAW, M2HB heavy machineguns, M1919 medium machineguns, and M79 40mm grenade-launchers. NMSG artillery was limited to a few 60mm and 81mm mortars.

VEHICLES

The New Mexico State Guard's motor pool consists primarily of retired New Mexico National Guard trucks, most commonly M151 jeeps, M35 2.5-ton 6x6 trucks (assorted variants), M54 5-ton 6x6 trucks (assorted variants), and M1009 ¾-ton utility rigs. Several of the 2.5 and 5-ton trucks were converted into lightly-armored and heavily-armed gun trucks.

This military vehicle fleet has been supplemented by various makes and models of lightly modified civilian pickup trucks and SUVs, most painted in custom camouflage suited to the geography of the region.

The State Guard motor pool also boasts a handful purpose-built armored vehicles, including a three Cadillac Ranger armored cars (2 USAF 'Peacemaker' versions and one local law-enforcement SWAT vehicle) and one former USAF Cadillac Gage Commando (V100).

Aircraft

Most of the aircraft, both fixed wing and rotary, left at Kirtland are inoperable due to a lack of aviation fuel and spare parts. Those that can still fly are used only sparingly. However, the NMSG employs several ultralight aircraft in the scouting and light attack roles. Two helicopters, originally belonging to state law enforcement agencies, are also on the NMSDF's aviation rolls, but have not flown in some time due to a lack of spare parts.

[I]*'Depends' is a brand of adult undergarments (often uncharitably referred to as adult diapers).

Jason Weiser

12-31-2016, 04:25 PM

I'm sure that it's been mentioned here before but I can't find a dedicated thread. Anyway, State Guard units seem like an interesting patron, ally, or adversary for CONUS-based campaigns. State Guard units answer to the state governor and can't be federalized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force

The New Mexico State Guard, for example, was, up until very recently, a small (about 50 personnel), part-time, unpaid, unarmed force, called on, from time to time, to perform several support roles, mainly disaster-relief. Obviously, WWIII would change that, and I envision their size and role expanding, especially after the TDM.

Rae,

Found the thread you are looking for!

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=356

About halfway down.

Raellus

12-31-2016, 04:44 PM

Thanks, Jason!

CDAT

01-01-2017, 12:50 AM

rcaf_777

01-01-2017, 12:06 PM

Some states use them for odds and ends jobs.

I would guessing that would still be the case in Twilight, you see them doing maybe physical security at point were sabotage could committed by Soviet Agents, Nuclear Power Plants, Locks, Dockyards, War Material Productions Plants, Airports to name a few.

I could also see them doing POW duties such as escorting POW's within their state or watching them on work details. These duties would not mandatory but duties voluntary done as service to federal government thru the State government. (IE Hey Governor X, can your troops help out POW Camp 123 with work detail escort, we give you that federal money for project Y)

RN7

01-01-2017, 12:36 PM

There was some discussion about State Guards midway down on the first page of this thread...

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4800

The Dark

01-01-2017, 03:12 PM

Just some little info on at least some state guards. Some states use them for odds and ends jobs. I talked with some from WA and all most all of them are retired military who in the state guard retain their old rank (lots of MSG and above, on the enlisted side, and from my understanding LTC and above on the officer side with few of the lower ranks) and their main mission is to take care of national guard armories when the national guard is deployed.

On the other hand the CA state guard did a lot when the CA national guard unit I got attached to deployed, they did all the screening and all the admin stuff needed to make sure that the troop was deployable and again most of them were former military but with the ones I talked with they were not mostly retired and almost entirely officers with captain and major most common that I saw. Neither type would be very usable in a combat role the WA type they are too old and to far removed even when they were still in to know what to do in combat if it hit them in the face, and the CA model were all medical and admin staff. Not saying that there is not a third (or more) types out there but all the different state guards that I have seen fell into one of those types.VA has around 1000 members in the Virginia Defense Force (the goal is to have 1200 members). They follow both systems in a way - the VDF secures NG facilities when those units are deployed, assists in NG mobilization, and is used for disaster relief. They're also technically liable to be called up in case of invasion or insurrection, to support law enforcement, or "[w]hen any combination of persons becomes so powerful as to obstruct the execution of laws in any part of this Commonwealth". I haven't heard of any VDF working with law enforcement, but I've only been here for around a year, so it may have happened in the past. Any unorganized militia ordered into service by the Governor becomes part of the VDF (per Title 44-88) and anyone failing to do so when ordered is subject to court-martial (Title 44-90). The VDF is unarmed unless ordered otherwise by the Governor.

In a T2K scenario, I figure they'd get the leftovers of the VNG equipment and serve pretty much the same role - guarding bases and possibly civilian government facilities as well. Since they're not draft-exempt, I expect the VDF would fairly soon end up with the too-old and the too-young (they can accept volunteers as young as 16 under current law), and they'd probably have ended up with a lot of 16 and 17 year olds who saw it as a way to get some training before being sent to the war.

chico20854

01-01-2017, 05:12 PM

I worked up a piece on the State Guards a few years back. I've posted it at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1iWKi-cwRMLRGp0X1lRclJrbkU/view?usp=sharing Please let me know if the link is dead!

I've written up a couple State Guard unit histories. I'll try to get some posted this week!

Enjoy!

unkated

01-01-2017, 06:36 PM

Search on "State Guard" there are several threads.

Including this one: http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4800&highlight=massachusetts

Uncle Ted

Raellus

01-01-2017, 10:23 PM

@Chico: Great piece. Thanks for linking to it from this thread. I look forward to reading your SG histories.

RN7 posted that link two messages ago, but thanks, unkated.

chico20854

01-03-2017, 07:18 AM

41ST OREGON REGIMENT - This unit, with headquarters in Tigard (a southwestern suburb of Portland), was called into state service in November 1996 and assumed responsibility for maintaining security for the port and shipyards in the city. It gradually absorbed new recruits flowing into the system, rejecting many due to histories of criminal or drug-related activity. This standard, unusual among state guard units, allowed the regiment to operate on a more professional basis than most of its peers across the nation. As the war spread across the world in 1997, the regiment, in cooperation with the other two Oregon regiments, began planning for evacuation of the civilian population of Portland. The 41st's role was to run the assembly/transportation sites and assist law enforcement in traffic control (as all major routes would be set up to run traffic outbound in all but one lane). The first panicked evacuation occurred in July following the first Soviet nuclear attack on NATO troops; several other false alarms occurred over the following months. During each of these, the regiment’s troops operated the sites (at local high schools) that loaded city transit and school busses with local residents that did not have cars and dispatched them to suburban and rural high schools that were considered safely out of danger from strikes on likely nuclear targets. Following the earlier evacuations the planning was modified to make greater use of the rail system (both commuter and freight) as well as barges on the Columbia River as well as providing for an armed militiaman as an escort for every vehicle (after a bus of elderly evacuees was stopped and robbed at gunpoint by bikers). After the nuclear strikes on Washington, DC and refineries around the nation the regiment once again evacuated the city; the evacuation was not flawless but was one of the most successful in the nation, moving nearly 1.7 million people over five days. The regiment’s troops dispersed during the evacuation, providing security at the evacuation sites. In spring 1998 the Governor of Oregon declared that the Portland area would be reoccupied and the regiment’s troops were tasked to encourage this movement. This was a considerably more difficult effort, as fuel stocks had dwindled and the unit’s elements had limited communications, having relied on the civilian telephone network or use of the state police’s radio network. Nonetheless the regiment was able to rally many of its troops back to Portland, where it, combined with the remnants of the 82nd Regiment, provided law enforcement for the city as well as protecting the state capitol and government alongside the 47th ID.

Current Location: Portland, OR
Manpower: 300

chico20854

01-03-2017, 07:19 AM

MINNESOTA REGIMENT - The Minnesota State Guard was reactivated in December 1996, following decades of existence on paper only. Organized as a two-battalion regiment, it was staffed by retirees of the Minnesota National Guard who were medically unfit for overseas service, retired law enforcement officers, carefully screened veterans and students and recent graduates of the National Guard’s program for troubled teens. A third battalion was also raised as a paper formation, composed of state law enforcement officers (state police, game wardens, prison guards and park rangers), so that they could be granted military status under the law. Each battalion was formed with seven small companies, each of which served one day a week; the unit’s admission standards led the regiment to be one of the most professional militia units in the nation, on par with many National Guard units. First Battalion protected various industrial sites in the Twin Cities area, while 2nd Battalion guarded the port facilities in Duluth as well as establishing evacuation sites in rural areas, using Minnesota’s state park system as well as hundreds of campgrounds and resorts. Units were equipped with M-1 Garand rifles and M-1911 pistols; no heavier weapons were issued. Like other state defense force units around the nation it was involved with the repeated false alarms throughout the summer and fall of 1997 as the nuclear exchange escalated worldwide. Both regular battalions were called into full-time service following the Thanksgiving Day Massacre, with 1st Battalion responsible for assisting in the evacuation of the Twin Cities and 2nd Battalion in their reception in smaller towns and cities. First Battalion was called away from evacuation duties to respond to the SLBM strikes on the Rosemount and St. Paul Park refineries on December 18. By the time relief duties had been completed (firefighting and support of survey and salvage efforts) order had broken down in large areas of the state and the state government had relocated to the military-controlled enclave at Camp Ripley. First Battalion relocated to the military base, while 2nd Battalion, dispersed across hundreds of sites, was officially disbanded and 3rd Battalion called into active service (absorbing additional recruits from the 70th ID on base to fill the battalion out). A detachment seized the M-16s and M-203s awaiting delivery from a small arms plant in Becker and ammunition from plants in the suburbs of Minneapolis, allowing 3rd Battalion to be fully equipped with automatic weapons. During this time the regiment took its first casualties from radiation, both from service near the refinery blasts and from fallout from the ground bursts on the ICBM fields and SAC bases in the Dakotas to the west. In the summer of 1998 the two-battalion regiment played a major role in maintaining order in the central part of the state, conducting joint patrols with Task Force Trailblazer of the 70th ID and protecting the state government as well as overseeing distribution of the limited amounts of food, fertilizer and fuel available to the state. The state government effectively avoided choosing allegiance to either Milgov or Civgov, officially recognizing the authority of both but taking its own decisions in the absence of support of any kind from either entity. Local opposition consisted of biker gangs, wandering groups of desperate, armed refugees and, on occasion, recalcitrant local farmers who balked at the quantity of crops seized by the unit to support the civilian population.

Subordination: Minnesota State Government
Current Location: Camp Ripley, MN
Manpower: 500

chico20854

01-03-2017, 07:36 AM

5TH CALIFORNIA BRIGADE - A California State Guard unit, with headquarters in Fresno and battalions at Camp San Luis Obispo, Bakersfield, Porterville and Fresno. Assigned to the Northern Area Command this brigade began a rapid expansion in the summer of 1996 from a cadre to a fully staffed organization by absorbing hundreds of draftees that had been passed over for federal service, often for health reasons or because of minor criminal records. A smattering of retired California National Guard NCOs were assigned to supervise the unit and do most of the training of the new draftees; the retirees were greeted with general hostility from the peacetime membership, who resented the “intrusion” into what had been more of a social club. Nonetheless, it was the first State Guard unit to be called into service, in October 1996 to support the mobilization of the 40th Infantry Division and the 49th MP Brigade. Members of the unit assumed responsibility for providing security for National Guard armories as well as providing logistic and administrative support for the mobilizing National Guard troops. Most notably, personnel of the unit ran the rifle qualification range at Camp Roberts, allowing the mobilizing troops to all certify their marksmanship proficiency without having to provide range safety officers, ammunition handlers and emergency medical personnel. Following departure of the National Guard for overseas service the unit was armed with M-1 Garand rifles from federal stockpiles and began patrolling central California and protecting critical petroleum and power infrastructure in the region. As an investigation by the Army would later reveal, the unit also ran a clandestine “hit squad” that engaged in a series of nighttime raids against suspected “enemy sympathizers”, a category that quickly grew to include Mexicans, leftists, union officials, peace activists and outspoken college professors. Bodies of these innocents were dumped, tortured and mutilated, in various remote spots within the unit’s area of responsibility. The 221st MP Brigade, an Army Reserve unit, was brought back to California from Hawaii in December 1997 in part to investigate and hunt down the death squad and purge the state guard unit of dangerous elements. Upon arrival the state guard unit was brought under federal control and the brigade’s officers were replaced by Army Reservists from the 221st. Resistance to the change was fierce and the Army brought in local law enforcement to embed with the unit’s patrols; desertion soared and by the end of January 1998 the unit was incapable of concerted action. At that point the Army officially stood down and disbanded the unit, assigning certain individuals to local police forces and the militias that the area’s sheriffs were standing up and disarming the rest.

10TH CALIFORNIA CADET BRIGADE - This unit started the war as a nominal brigade in the California Cadet Corps, a paramilitary youth training program for children from elementary school to college ages, based in schools. The 10th Brigade was a state-level formation that conducted leadership training for units assigned to other brigades, with no student units directly assigned. In the summer of 1997, with the war spreading and increased preparedness for nuclear conflict the governor requested that the Cadet Corps stand up two disaster response units composed of 16-18-year old boys. The 10th Brigade used its existing command structure and recruited suitable boys from school units in the Los Angeles area. July was spent conducting first aid, traffic control and disaster relief training at the El Toro Marine Corps airbase in Orange County. When nuclear war broke out in Europe the unit remained on the base on high alert but with the start of the school year the unit was demobilized and its members sent back to school, liable for immediate recall if needed. That call came several times during the fall as nuclear war scares gripped the city. The final callout was in early December, when Soviet nuclear strikes on refineries in Wilmington, Carson and El Segundo ignited a firestorm and set off a panicked mass exodus out of the city. The following days were chaos, but eventually a group of 250 boys rallied at the Naval Weapons Station Seal Beach. Many had armed themselves during the preceding days; the rest were armed by the mixed force of civilian security guards and recovering Marines and sailors guarding the facility. A Marine Corps Master Gunnery Sergeant, healing from wounds received in Bandar Abbas, Iran, assumed command and integrated the guard force into the unit in leadership positions. The formation remained in the enclave throughout the winter and spring, fortifying the perimeter and turning away all outsiders, considered lost by the Governor and the military chain of command, fed by a false report that the base had been overrun. The Mexican invasion ended this period of inactivity; a salvage expedition sent by XVI Corps discovered the force, which handed over the facility and accepted deployment to the front to the south. The Governor, upon hearing that the unit had been found intact, demanded that it be spared front-line duty due to the youth of many of its soldiers and its haphazard and light armament. That request was accepted and the brigade was assigned for responsibility for security in the Corps rear area, guarding convoys, warehouses and the Corps rear headquarters. The brigade saw a lot of action in this role, battling Mexican Army infiltrators and their allied street and biker gangs. It retreated through the ruins of LA and once out of the urban area was assigned to dig field fortifications in the Tejon Pass, which were later used by the 221st MP Brigade. Following the disbandment of the 5th Brigade the 10th was moved north to central California, establishing its headquarters in Bakersfield and being released from federal duty. Once there the severely depleted unit absorbed additional troops, both carefully screened former members of the 5th Brigade as well as a detachment of lower-quality recruits from the Army’s 91st Training Division that had remained in Bakersfield to protect the refinery complex and nearby oilfields.
Subordination: State of California
Current Location: Bakersfield, CA
Manpower: 600

chico20854

01-03-2017, 07:42 AM

49TH ALASKA BRIGADE - This unit was originally a MP brigade composed of law enforcement officers and military veterans. With its headquarters in Wasilla and battalions in Fairbanks and Anchorage, the 500-odd members of this unit were called into state active duty with the Soviet invasion of Norway in November 1996. Following a brief period mobilizing, the unit was tasked to protect the Alaska Pipeline from Soviet Spetsnaz raids as well as guarding the Alaska Railroad, maintaining checkpoints on the Alaska and Dalton Highways, and guarding port facilities in Anchorage, Juneau and Valdez. Unlike most state defense forces, the 49th was armed with M-14 rifles, M-79 grenade launchers and M-60 machineguns from federal stocks, reflecting the greater conventional threat faced by the Alaska unit compared to most other states. By the summer of 1997 militiamen of the brigade were engaged in nearly weekly small-scale firefights with Soviet infiltrators that had slipped into the massive state past the defending Army units. When the Red Army crossed into the state in force the unit was brought under federal control and placed under command of X Corps, ordered to concentrate in the Mat-Su Valley if possible (otherwise, militiamen were to attach themselves to the nearest military unit). At that time the unit absorbed 150 additional recruits, students at a “boot-camp” style program for troubled teens, who were assigned to squads as privates. The brigade, lacking weapons heavier than M-60 machineguns, was assigned rear area security roles only. Its most significant achievement was in evacuating most of the population of Fairbanks in advance of the Soviets, passing the civilians through Fort Wainwright without serious incident and onward to the Canadian border, in addition to patrolling the cantonment areas of Fort Wainwright and Eilelson Air Force Base throughout the long winter of 1997-1998. When X Corps launched its counterattack in the spring of 1998, the brigade advanced behind X Corps’ screen and assumed responsibility for the city of Fairbanks as well as restoring services along the Mat-Su Valley. In these duties the unit was hampered by the depopulation of the areas as well as the general lack of resources in the year after the nuclear exchange. It remained in that area for the remainder of the war.
Subordination: X Corps
Current Location: Fairbanks, AK
Manpower: 200

chico20854

01-03-2017, 07:49 AM

3RD TEXAS REGIMENT - This unit was a prewar standing military formation, the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets. While much of the regiment’s senior membership were inducted into federal military service at the outbreak of war, a large number remained as the Army struggled to absorb draftees from around the nation. At the conclusion of the 1996-97 school year, the Governor of Texas ordered the Corps onto active duty, splitting its membership into two regiments. This unit (unofficially known as “the 1st Aggies”) left its College Station home to augment the Border Patrol in guarding the Mexican border, operating out of a ranch on the outskirts of Eagle Pass and from Laughlin Air Force Base near Del Rio. The regiment’s cadets were armed with a hodgepodge of M-16s from Air Force and National Guard stocks, M-14s and M-1s from the State Guard, shotguns from the factory in Eagle Pass and civilian weapons owned by the unit’s members or donated by alumni. (The prize of the latter category was a pair of custom-made gold plated Barrett M-82 .50-caliber rifles donated by a Vietnam Veteran and oilman from the Class of 1963). The unit’s patrols soon began to intercept thousands upon thousands of Mexican refugees fleeing chaos back home, directing them to makeshift camps, transporting them back across the border or moving them further into Texas to avoid overwhelming the Rio Grande valley. In early 1998 as the transportation system broke down the first food riots broke out in the refugee camps. The regiment was sent in to restore order; its troops were met with gunfire from the heavily armed Mexican gangs which were attempting to assert control in the camps. Within a week the camps were full-fledged combat zones and the regiment, reinforced with armored cars from the nearby Air Force base and under orders from the Governor, was ordered to shut them down and deport all the surviving inhabitants. The Mexican government protested and the relocation convoys were blocked by Mexican Army units, forcing the regiment to drive the refugees en masse towards the border at gunpoint. Conditions continued to deteriorate until the unit found itself in combat against the Mexican Army. With few support weapons (even after absorbing the Air Force Security Police Squadron and other base personnel and the Border Patrol agents in the sector) and with its rear area under pressure from Mexican refugees, sympathizers and infiltrators the regiment was forced north, retreating over Interstate 10 before rallying in San Angelo. The Mexican drive ran out of steam, slowed by American nuclear strikes on Mexico, inadequate logistics and resistance from the local populace. The regiment wintered in the town, building impressive defenses and absorbing the cadre and student body from Goodfellow Air Force Base’s intelligence school. With a trickle of fuel from the nearby oil fields the formation was able to actively patrol, although cut off from other units in the vast spaces of Texas. It took part in the 1999 drive into Central Texas, linking up with units of XIII Corps before being repulsed by the Soviet Division Cuba. The regiment evacuated to the northwest, returning to its cantonment in San Angelo. It remained there throughout the remainder of the war.
Subordination: State of Texas
Current Location: San Angelo, TX
Manpower: 500

8TH TEXAS BRIGADE - This unit started the war as the 2nd Military Police Group, headquartered in Houston with subordinate units in Beaumont, Port Arthur and Bryan. The unit was called into state service at the outbreak of war and assigned several hundred untrained draftees and 50 retired NCOs from the Texas National Guard. Within a few weeks the unit, by now renamed a brigade (named “Terry’s Texas Rangers”) was issued obsolete small arms and began patrolling the refineries along the Houston Ship Canal as well as protecting the ports and refineries in Port Arthur and Beaumont. The unit took heavy losses in the Soviet nuclear strikes on those refineries and the subsequent civil unrest and chaos, unrest that the unit was nominally responsible for quelling. Composed mostly of part-time guardsmen, like the other Texas State Guard units, many individual guardsmen survived the strikes while the unit’s command structure was devastated. In that environment the unit disintegrated, with individual guardsmen often using their weapons and training in unofficial militias and bands of bandits (although at times the distinction was lost between the two).

9TH TEXAS BRIGADE - This Texas State Guard formation was the smallest of the Texas brigades, drawing recruits from the city of El Paso and surrounding areas. Unfortunately those areas were sparsely populated so the “brigade” never exceeded five companies in strength, despite the influx of retired NCOs and draftees. The unit was primarily assigned to provide area defense for Fort Bliss and patrol the Mexican border in the immediate area of the city. The brigade was called into full-time service following the November 1997 nuclear strikes; its remote location prevented a significant influx of refugees from elsewhere in Texas. By January 1998, however, the El Paso area was being overwhelmed by streams of refugees from Mexico and the unit’s harsh methods of dealing with the flow soon were causes of tension with the Mexican government. By June the brigade was engaged in full-blown riot control duties which the Mexican Army soon crossed the border to halt. The unit, stretched to the limit, put up brief resistance before being overwhelmed. The survivors were absorbed by the School Brigade.

stilleto69

01-04-2017, 01:20 AM

@Chico: Wonderful works as always. Glad to see you back. Missed your work.:)

chico20854

01-04-2017, 02:54 PM

And some eye candy... a Minnesota Regiment command vehicle photographed at an evacuation site, August 1997.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/chico20854/inspired/state%20guard%20command%20vehicle%200104.jpg

and

A training exercise of the 41st Oregon Regiment, May 1997. The guardsmen are armed with privately-provided AR-15 semi-automatic rifles (equipped with blank firing adapters from the National Guard) and a modified civilian hunting rifle.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/chico20854/militia_01.jpg

WallShadow

01-04-2017, 09:09 PM

@Chico:
<holds up his electronic bowl with hunger in his eyes>
Please, Sir, may we have more?

rcaf_777

01-05-2017, 03:23 PM

Been trying to figure out character generation for a State Guardsman. Given their age at the time of Twilight War they would have already had a lifetime of skills. Anyway here is what I have

Background

Average Age 50-60

Born 1940-1950

2 Terms Max in the Military (Draft) – See Draft Rules
1 Term Mandatory in State Guard (Pre War) Any ideas on skills?
1 War Term Mandatory
Max 8 Terms in Civilian employment

Draft Rules

Max 2 terms in the Military
Any Occupation

Service Details (1D6)

1-2 Vietnam Service (add +1 to all Military Skills)
3-4 Overseas Service (Korea or Germany)
5-6 Stateside Service

Discharge Status (1D10)

1-4 Honourable
5-7 General
8 - Other than Honourable
9 - Bad Conduct Discharge
0 – Dishonourable

Life outside the Military

No Law Enforcement Careers great than two terms
No Government Agent Career
PC can elected to serve one additional term in the ANG or USAR

rcaf_777

01-05-2017, 03:59 PM

Units were equipped with M-1 Garand rifles and M-1911 pistols

What about having weapons manufactured from places like the Springfield Armory which has been producing M1A since 1974

Springfield Armory M1A
Springfield Armory P9
Springfield Armory M6 Scout
Springfield Armory M1 Garand
Springfield Armory M1911

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory_M1A
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory,_Inc.

There are also a few factories still producing the M1 Carbine as well

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbines.html

unkated

01-05-2017, 06:27 PM

Background

1 Term Mandatory in State Guard (Pre War) Any ideas on skills?

Rather than make this a Term, (since pre-war this is NOT the only thing you do for 4 years), select from the list of State guard skills instead of a secondary activity.

The main career during that term must be a non-government (other than LOE, possibly). Term before war cannot be LOE (or you would be more useful in LOE than in the state guard)

Skills can include non-combat skills:

Law
Medical
Computer
Scrounging
History
Ground Vehicle (Wheeled)
Mechanic

possibly Civil Engineering

Draft Rules

Max 2 terms in the Military
Any Occupation

Service Details (1D6)

1-2 Vietnam Service (add +1 to all Military Skills)
3-4 Overseas Service (Korea or Germany)
5-6 Stateside Service

Discharge Status (1D10)

1-4 Honourable
5-7 General
8 - Other than Honourable
9 - Bad Conduct Discharge
0 – Dishonourable

Life outside the Military

No Law Enforcement Careers great than two terms
No Government Agent Career
PC can elected to serve one additional term in the ANG or USAR

To reach the ages you describe, must make at least 5 terms before War Term.

(Aging mandatory)

Contact can be (in addition to Civilian career options) Govt or Military (NOT foreign)

Uncle Ted

CDAT

01-05-2017, 07:34 PM

Been trying to figure out character generation for a State Guardsman. Given their age at the time of Twilight War they would have already had a lifetime of skills. Anyway here is what I have

Background

Average Age 50-60

Born 1940-1950

2 Terms Max in the Military (Draft) – See Draft Rules
1 Term Mandatory in State Guard (Pre War) Any ideas on skills?
1 War Term Mandatory
Max 8 Terms in Civilian employment

I am not thinking that the State Guard should be a term, more like unkated said have it be secondary.

Draft Rules

Max 2 terms in the Military
Any Occupation

Why max 2 terms in the military? Everyone that I know personally in the State Guard are all retired military.

Discharge Status (1D10)

1-4 Honourable
5-7 General
8 - Other than Honourable
9 - Bad Conduct Discharge
0 – Dishonourable

I may be wrong, but I do not think you can get into the State Guard with a BCD, or Dishonourable.

Life outside the Military

No Law Enforcement Careers great than two terms
No Government Agent Career
PC can elected to serve one additional term in the ANG or USAR
Also why no Law Enforcement careers?

rcaf_777

01-05-2017, 09:50 PM

I am not thinking that the State Guard should be a term, more like unkated said have it be secondary.

Already stated above, but thanks

Why max 2 terms in the military? Everyone that I know personally in the State Guard are all retired military.

The State Guard in the Twilight setting are soldiers too aged or medical unfit for federal service, if you have 3 or more terms in the Military (remembering terms are fours years) Then why would they be in state guard, and not recalled to federal service? It also add to development of the PC's. Limiting the terms will give a strong military background and serves a motivation of why they serve in state guard. These are PC that served in military back during the Vietnam draft era.

I may be wrong, but I do not think you can get into the State Guard with a BCD, or Dishonourable.

I wouldn't know however adding to a characters background make a good PC so someone with a BCD would try and bluff his way in (Still working on this)

Also why no Law Enforcement careers?
For the same reason as their is a limit on the Military terms. Law enforcement personnel would still me serving as law enforcement right to start of any game.

Remember you are creating a State Guard character, not a police officer or serving military character.

CDAT

01-06-2017, 01:18 AM

The State Guard in the Twilight setting are soldiers too aged or medical unfit for federal service, if you have 3 or more terms in the Military (remembering terms are fours years) Then why would they be in state guard, and not recalled to federal service? It also add to development of the PC's. Limiting the terms will give a strong military background and serves a motivation of why they serve in state guard. These are PC that served in military back during the Vietnam draft era.

I understand that you do not want a serving military/LEO but my understanding was you were making older characters, so making a career (retired) military who got out after Vietnam, by TW2000 they will have been out for about 20 years, not likely to be getting recalled, or even let back in, and even if they were everything about the military is different by then.

For the same reason as their is a limit on the Military terms. Law enforcement personnel would still me serving as law enforcement right to start of any game.

Remember you are creating a State Guard character, not a police officer or serving military character.
I guess I am not understanding what you think the state guard character should be. I see the State Guard more as a club that they belong to that has some duties, same as Red Cross, Volunteer Fireman and so on. I am not sure how being a police officer would not let you use them. Yes they may not have been called up, but after the fecal matter hits the oscillating blade and they decide to call up the State Guard for home defense/law enforcement having a fully trained LEO (maybe even retired) on the team I could see being good.

unkated

01-06-2017, 12:22 PM

rcaf_777

01-06-2017, 08:17 PM

I guess I am not understanding what you think the state guard character should be. I see the State Guard more as a club that they belong to that has some duties, same as Red Cross, Volunteer Fireman and so on. I am not sure how being a police officer would not let you use them. Yes they may not have been called up, but after the fecal matter hits the oscillating blade and they decide to call up the State Guard for home defense/law enforcement having a fully trained LEO (maybe even retired) on the team I could see being good.

Your not thinking of the game terms, in the game the State Guard are used for home defense of a state, they are a military unit. While today we see the State Guard that has some duties, same as Red Cross, or Volunteer Fireman, that not how they were original organized. They are an organized military force at the service of the state in which they live. It should also me noted that many states would not even form state guard units until after their ANG Units are federalized.

While after the he fecal matter hits the oscillating blade, you find police, fireman and paramedics in the state guard. Before that they would doing their regular jobs. You can certainly generate these PC's or LEO's but they would doing their regular job up till the start of any adventure. So no state guard training until the last term of generation (the war term). I don't think it too much of stretch to for LEO or other special personnel to assigned to the state guard at the start of any adventure.

CDAT

01-07-2017, 02:48 PM

Your not thinking of the game terms, in the game the State Guard are used for home defense of a state, they are a military unit. While today we see the State Guard that has some duties, same as Red Cross, or Volunteer Fireman, that not how they were original organized. They are an organized military force at the service of the state in which they live. It should also me noted that many states would not even form state guard units until after their ANG Units are federalized.

While after the he fecal matter hits the oscillating blade, you find police, fireman and paramedics in the state guard. Before that they would doing their regular jobs. You can certainly generate these PC's or LEO's but they would doing their regular job up till the start of any adventure. So no state guard training until the last term of generation (the war term). I don't think it too much of stretch to for LEO or other special personnel to assigned to the state guard at the start of any adventure.

I am seeing that post TW2000 they are all combined together, but the part that is not clear to me is if you are making a character that has up to 12 terms (48 years life experiences) they are likely going to have retired from what ever job they held for most of there life. I am not seeing why someone could not make a character that was in the military for 5 terms (20 years) retired and then went to work doing what ever lets say LEO for the next 5 terms (20 years) and the retired for good. At some point they joined the State Guard as they missed the military but as they were retired and working a different job did not want to rejoin active or even the reserves, so the State Guard it is. When the balloon goes up they are not serving as a Solider or even a LEO as they are retired for 1 or 2 terms (4 to 8 years). They are to old to recall for the military and their skills are to out of date, they could maybe be recalled for LEO, but if that has been rolled into the State Guard they are already part of it.

I may be looking at it from a different point of view, as if you change LEO for Fire and State Guard for Red cross that fits my father almost to a tee. He joined the military in Vietnam era, did his time. Then became a Fireman retired as Chief and now volunteers for Red Cross. Due to age and all that he would not be recalled for either, but can do his "job" for the red cross.

rcaf_777

01-08-2017, 02:14 PM

I am not seeing why someone could not make a character that was in the military for 5 terms (20 years) retired and then went to work doing what ever lets say LEO for the next 5 terms (20 years) and the retired for good

Looking at the age chart I did here you will see why, any PC's that dose this route has the potential to be put back in uniform and given a administrative or training assignment once the war starts.

Same goes for an LEO, the potential for them to take on administrative or training duties to free other officer for other duties.

In short is dose not work for PC born after 1945.

The Dark

01-08-2017, 04:33 PM

Your not thinking of the game terms, in the game the State Guard are used for home defense of a state, they are a military unit. While today we see the State Guard that has some duties, same as Red Cross, or Volunteer Fireman, that not how they were original organized. They are an organized military force at the service of the state in which they live. It should also me noted that many states would not even form state guard units until after their ANG Units are federalized.

While after the he fecal matter hits the oscillating blade, you find police, fireman and paramedics in the state guard. Before that they would doing their regular jobs. You can certainly generate these PC's or LEO's but they would doing their regular job up till the start of any adventure. So no state guard training until the last term of generation (the war term). I don't think it too much of stretch to for LEO or other special personnel to assigned to the state guard at the start of any adventure.The counter-argument is that State Guard isn't a full-time job except for the very highest echelons, so it shouldn't be a career path at all, but a secondary choice.

As far as them being just military units, I can't speak for other states, but that's laughable for Virginia. The VDF has been in essentially its current form since 1983, providing disaster support.

There are a fair number of State Guards that handily pre-date the T2K timeline. Virginia's current version has existed since 1983 (when the State Constitution was changed). California's had theirs since 1846. Georgia's had their current version since 1985 (in the 70s, it was essentially a volunteer auxiliary police force). Indiana's dates back to the Civil War. Maryland has had a Defense Force since 1983. Massachusetts had one until last year (when the new governor declined to extend their charter). Michigan had the Emergency Volunteers from 1988 to 1998. Mississippi reactivated theirs in 1986 due to the Total Force Concept. Washington has had theirs since 1960. Out of those, California, Georgia, and Indiana are the only ones that I know provide weapons training to their State Guard. Most State Guards that exist are not an "organized military force" in the sense of having any sort of combat capability.

Given the widely varying levels of training and duties of State Guards, I think it may be best to do two different versions of State Guard. The first would be to have it as part of the secondary options for characters, more as an explanation of how they learned a skill than as anything else. The second would be a draft option for characters who are too old to reasonably be expected to be sent overseas. Historically, the draft has tended to be limited to people 45 or younger, so having State Guard as a draft option for characters with 8+ terms seems possible. Anyone younger than that would likely be drafted before the State Guards become a full-time occupation.

CDAT

01-08-2017, 05:08 PM

The counter-argument is that State Guard isn't a full-time job except for the very highest echelons, so it shouldn't be a career path at all, but a secondary choice.

As far as them being just military units, I can't speak for other states, but that's laughable for Virginia. The VDF has been in essentially its current form since 1983, providing disaster support.

There are a fair number of State Guards that handily pre-date the T2K timeline. Virginia's current version has existed since 1983 (when the State Constitution was changed). California's had theirs since 1846. Georgia's had their current version since 1985 (in the 70s, it was essentially a volunteer auxiliary police force). Indiana's dates back to the Civil War. Maryland has had a Defense Force since 1983. Massachusetts had one until last year (when the new governor declined to extend their charter). Michigan had the Emergency Volunteers from 1988 to 1998. Mississippi reactivated theirs in 1986 due to the Total Force Concept. Washington has had theirs since 1960. Out of those, California, Georgia, and Indiana are the only ones that I know provide weapons training to their State Guard. Most State Guards that exist are not an "organized military force" in the sense of having any sort of combat capability.

Given the widely varying levels of training and duties of State Guards, I think it may be best to do two different versions of State Guard. The first would be to have it as part of the secondary options for characters, more as an explanation of how they learned a skill than as anything else. The second would be a draft option for characters who are too old to reasonably be expected to be sent overseas. Historically, the draft has tended to be limited to people 45 or younger, so having State Guard as a draft option for characters with 8+ terms seems possible. Anyone younger than that would likely be drafted before the State Guards become a full-time occupation.

This is kind of what I have been trying to say, as right now (and also pre-TW2000) most places it is more a social club, I am not understanding the restriction put on it. I understand that it became something different , but up tell that time it was not a full time career.

rcaf_777

01-10-2017, 12:04 AM

This is kind of what I have been trying to say, as right now (and also pre-TW2000) most places it is more a social club, I am not understanding the restriction put on it. I understand that it became something different , but up tell that time it was not a full time career.

It's dose not matter what the State Guard look like prior to pre-TW2000 as the PC are generated after war starts.

Take a look at the basic rules and character generation, you see plenty of restrictions for certain career paths. Those are in place to add realism to character generation. You can't use the regular rules, cause you won't end up with character you expect to see in the guard. Which are old men unfit for combat, but with a sense to service.

Look at the State Guard during WWII and the UK Home Guard of how you see them organized and trained on the fly and into a some what military force.

I'm not going for a regular army.....more like Dad's Army

Raellus

01-10-2017, 01:20 PM

Perhaps someone already suggested this, but maybe a solution to the pre-war State Guard "career" is a special set of secondary activity skills. In v2.2, some career terms allow certain secondary activities that boost attributes or add skills. Using this system would allow one to pick existing civilian careers but still gain two or three additional skills (military or related) for every term spent in the SG.

Maybe a menu of skills would be best. A term of service in the SG would entitle the character to any 2-3 skills from that menu. This would, of course, replace the standard secondary activity perks for that career term.

simonmark6

01-10-2017, 03:00 PM

Giving someone 2-3 choices from a menu is very powerful for a State Guard secondary skill which is generally 1 point. I'd say that if a previous turn included military, LEO or paramedic/emergency services then the character could choose to use their secondary skill point form one of those careers to represent them doing something they used to do as a job as a hobby.

Also, if you are talking retired people, you need a retirement term which would be 1 skill from the secondary list and 1 secondary skill, thus having the State Guard background would give a PC the option of having a more relevant skill than just the secondary skill list.

If you are having a game where the PCs are all retired State Guard, you may get the situation where character generation is frustrating or even like the old Traveller where your character dies in generation.

Bear in mind:
Aging rolls: these start at term 4 for Agility so a 12 term PC will have rolled 9 times to lose a point in agility: obviously when you get down to 1-2 it is less likely that you will fail the roll, but there's a chance that your character dies before war starts. Then there are seven Strength rolls, five Constitution rolls and one Intelligence roll. Granted you can use a secondary term to raise STR or CON but whatever happens to AGL happens.

After term 6 (if you are using v2.2) you're only getting 1 skill point per term unless you change occupations which is pretty gamey if you do it a lot.

Skills of a value higher than the controlling asset cost double: that may lead to skills degrading if STATs are lost. If you had an asset of 7 in Small Arms and a STR of 7 and then dropped a point in STR, a GM may be justified in requiring either a point be spent to bring the Small Arms back to 7 or in having the Small Arms reduced to 6. In my opinion, this skill degradation with age seems fairly realistic to me, particularly for physical skills: I'm not as good a tuba player now as I was when I was young, I can't manage the stamina and physicality even though I know a lot more. In a more physical skill it would probably be worse.

I haven't crunched the maths but an average character I made was down to AGL 1, STR 2 and CON 3 by term 12 and the skills didn't pay back the STAT loss in my opinion. An optimised character fared better but AGL still dropped to 2 and I had to pump skills into keeping my AGL skills up and secondary skills into compensating for STAT loss.

I know that the figures aren't everything, but worrying about a State Guard career is a moot point when your character has limited survivability. I think it would make a great game, a bunch of very experienced PCs using smarts to compensate for the fact they can barely hold a rifle let alone make multiple shots with it but mortality would be crazy high unless they were very clever.

That sounds like a cool game but like the predictions of what the UK Home Guard would have done and the Volkstrum did, it was estimated that Home Guard units with preparation and home advantage would hold enemy units up for hours. Given the lower intensity of TK2 encounters it might be longer but for a PC group of 65+ year olds I'd be more inclined to spend time working out tables for illnesses and conditions rather than what skills they can acquire in the State Guard.

"Old Tom, yup, he'd been a Scout Sniper in 'Nam back in the day, gave the Mexicans hell until his pacemaker ran out. Still, he held that column off for long enough for the boys to get the insulin shipment back to base, it saved darn near most of the squad."

"Most of the Lot? What Lot?"

"I said SQUAD!!!"

"There's no need to shout, now how are we going to spring that cataract doc from the POW camp, we need that young whippersnapper or Third Platoon are gonna need to shift to shotguns."

"Nice buns? Thanks, I still exercise every day."

"I said SHOTGUNS!!!"

"Now who's shouting? Anyway, a bayonet will be good enough, they don't like it up 'em you know. They don't like it up 'em."

Good luck with a game like that if you run it, it has potential to be the best game ever: TK2 meets Burrows and Bunnies, I envy you playing it.

Raellus

01-10-2017, 05:36 PM

Yeah, I think you're right. 1 State Guard specific secondary activity skill point would be a more accurate reflection of peacetime SG activities.

The Dark

01-10-2017, 06:57 PM

It's dose not matter what the State Guard look like prior to pre-TW2000 as the PC are generated after war starts.II don't really agree with this, because (in 2.2 timeline) the US only gets involved in the war in 1996, and the 1996-2000 period is the post-draft portion of character generation (i.e. the character's last rolled term ends in 1996). So, take a character who serves two terms in the infantry, then six terms in state/local law enforcement with State Guard as a secondary, then gets drafted back into the State Guard. This guy was born in 1947, served with the military from '64-72, and was in the State Guard from '72-00. Except for the Welcome to Hell term, it's entirely pre-war State Guard.

Take a look at the basic rules and character generation, you see plenty of restrictions for certain career paths. Those are in place to add realism to character generation. You can't use the regular rules, cause you won't end up with character you expect to see in the guard. Which are old men unfit for combat, but with a sense to service.

Look at the State Guard during WWII and the UK Home Guard of how you see them organized and trained on the fly and into a some what military force.

I'm not going for a regular army.....more like Dad's ArmyThat's perfectly fine, but to me it doesn't seem to fit with by-the-book T2K, where a character could theoretically have joined the State Guard as early as 1956 (10 term character who joins straight out of high school - which isn't impossible, since Virginia will take 16 or 17 year old volunteers with parental permission).

Since I hate bringing up problems without proposing a solution, my idea for the pre-war State Guard is that it's similar to being an active National Guard servicemember (receive one skill and roll for promotion), but they choose their skill gain from either the Paramedic list (if they have Medical 2+) or the State/Local Law Enforcement list, to reflect the jobs the State Guard was called on to perform before the war, rather than drawing from their military branch skills. A character does not need to be a veteran to be in the State Guard (though many/most are).

For during-the-war State Guard (i.e. those who are drafted with 8+ terms), veterans (anyone who has already been through basic training) would get double skills on the appropriate list (Paramedic or S/LLE) with Small Arms (Rifle), Ground Vehicle (Wheeled) and Tac Missile being added to their skill list. Veterans roll twice for promotion, but do not get a secondary skill. Non-veterans would get basic training and normal skill points for an appropriate State Guard skill list; they roll once for promotion and do get a secondary skill.

It feels a bit clunky as I write it, but it feels like a valid way to have the State Guard be distinct from the National Guard and to reflect both their pre-war role and the change in role as the war goes on.

rcaf_777

02-01-2017, 12:24 PM

State Guard-Naval Militia Officer and Enlisted Career

The Dark

02-01-2017, 07:16 PM

State Guard-Naval Militia Officer and Enlisted CareerI would expect State Guard to also get M16EZ kits to free up "real weapons for real soldiers" or some such idea.

rcaf_777

02-01-2017, 09:31 PM

I would expect State Guard to also get M16EZ kits to free up "real weapons for real soldiers" or some such idea.

Here is a good article on the M16EZ,

https://shootingdiceblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/high-tech-twilight-war/

You might see them some state guards after 1999, but it relies on a MilGov supplied a second-hand barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, and trigger mechanism of an M16 or M16A1, which might not have made out to ever state guard unit in large quantities. These weapons I have here are what might be available to guards units at the beginning of the war. The M16EZ was weapon throw together because large scale weapon manufacturing was unavailable.

Question

With the above parts listed could a gunsmith make a M16EZ? if so what kind of skills and tasks are we talking about?

swaghauler

02-01-2017, 11:30 PM

Here is a good article on the M16EZ,

https://shootingdiceblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/high-tech-twilight-war/

You might see them some state guards after 1999, but it relies on a MilGov supplied a second-hand barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, and trigger mechanism of an M16 or M16A1, which might not have made out to ever state guard unit in large quantities. These weapons I have here are what might be available to guards units at the beginning of the war. The M16EZ was weapon throw together because large scale weapon manufacturing was unavailable.

Question

With the above parts listed could a gunsmith make a M16EZ? if so what kind of skills and tasks are we talking about?

NO. Not only is the kit missing a few crucial pieces such as the precisely sized buffer assembly that rides inside the buffer tube and regulates the rate of speed that the bolt travels back and forth inside the action (by both weight of assembly and spring rate), it is also missing the gas tube (which must PRECISELY fit the barrel vent to properly "gas" the bolt) which isn't too hard to "fab" but a nightmare to fit, the buffer tube (which must closely fit the buffer assembly to prevent binding) and the forward assist (which must be precisely fit to prevent "outgassing" and to mesh with the "contact grooves" on the bolt where it contacts said bolt). You can "delete" the forward assist, but you'd have to change the right side of the receiver to "seal" the hole that the forward assist travels in.

Finally, the M16 has a forged aluminum receiver. You could machine a steel receiver or investment cast a receiver, but if you have this technology, you can just make a NEW M16. The internal structure of an M16 receiver has some VERY complex machined cutouts that really require a CNC machine. This means NO stamped and welded sheet metal receivers like you can do with an AK or FAL (and like H&K actually used on the G3 series). This is why the AR-18 was designed...to give third world countries with only rudimentary technology a rifle that they could manufacture using "old school" metal fabricating tools. Parts guns would (and currently do) exist. This is where parts from several broken rifles are combined to make a functional rifle. You still need a serviceable receiver for this. In fact, GDW got this backward. It would be easier to send the bolt/buffer group and the receiver and have the local guys add everything else.

You would see a return of the "tube steel" guns like the M3 "Grease Gun" and the STEN Gun. This is greatest (and the most overlooked) asset of these weapons. You can crank them out in a shop with a press break, lathe, and a welder from common tube steel.

swaghauler

02-02-2017, 12:00 AM

.45cultist

02-02-2017, 06:49 AM

The Dark

02-02-2017, 08:58 PM

This thread brings up an interesting argument in the Twilight2000 timeline. There is this "idea" that frequently surfaces that people would be running around with home-made muskets because all of the firearms and ammunition were either used up or destroyed.

Both the US and Russia have enough small arms stockpiled to re-equip their armies THREE TIMES (although the M1, Mosin, and SKS would probably make an appearance in the third round). I did a rifle count at Ft. Indiantown Gap in the early 1990's for COG (continuity of government). There were 25K M16s (all M16A1s), 10K M14s, 1K M60s, and 1K assorted pistols (M1911s & .38 Model 10s) in this ONE site. There would also be a great number of "battlefield pickups" floating around to arm new recruits with. Finally, the US civilian population has HUGE numbers of both paramilitary and hunting rifles to draw on.
Since the Exchange was of only a limited nature, many of these "stockpiles" would still be intact.

Heavy weapons would be another story, though. From the beginning, this would be a "come as you are" or "bring what you got" war (with regards to the high-tech machines) The time it takes to assemble an M1 Abrams, M109 Paladin, or any jet in the modern age would preclude anything more than replacing "battlefield casualties" during the war. This means that older vehicles would be put back in service to cover losses or equip second line troops fairly quickly.For number of arms, in 2013 the United States advised the Small Arms Survey that they had 2,700,000 total military small arms; in 2010, there were 1.43 million active service members, so the numbers provided suggest around 2 firearms per service member on average, not including reservists. This is probably a little low, since other trinitarian militaries were around 2.5. Typical proportions of arms globally were found to be 72% selective-fire rifles, 13% pistols, 9% machineguns, and 6% other. I would expect the Twilight War military to be slightly higher, both due to having more servicemembers and (probably) a higher proportion of guns:people.

More importantly, though, military caliber ammunition could become a problem within a fairly brief time. Unless something has changed in the past few years, Lake City (Missouri) produces all the 5.56mm, 7.62mm, and 12.7mm for the military (I think 20mm also, but I never was involved in procuring that). Now, the stockpiles are likely in the billions of rounds (the number's classified, but the DoD regularly transfers millions of rounds to other agencies like the FBI or Marshal Service for their training without batting an eye, which gives at least a rough feel for how vast the number must be), but even if most aren't hit by the Exchange, distribution is still going to be a PITA in the post-apocalypse. I agree with the upthread comment that selective fire would likely be eliminated from most weapons in order to conserve ammo, and there'd probably also be a push to include the more common civilian calibers among second-tier units.

rcaf_777

02-03-2017, 11:39 AM

I built this AK-47 and it's legal and totally untraceable?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party

Another Option

CDAT

02-04-2017, 12:49 AM

For number of arms, in 2013 the United States advised the Small Arms Survey that they had 2,700,000 total military small arms; in 2010, there were 1.43 million active service members, so the numbers provided suggest around 2 firearms per service member on average, not including reservists. This is probably a little low, since other trinitarian militaries were around 2.5. Typical proportions of arms globally were found to be 72% selective-fire rifles, 13% pistols, 9% machineguns, and 6% other. I would expect the Twilight War military to be slightly higher, both due to having more servicemembers and (probably) a higher proportion of guns:people.

As for number of weapons per service member I do not know if they count the M203 as a separate weapon from the AR that it is attached to or not, but regardless some groups have many more weapons that others. For example my last years in I was EOD my three man team had one M4 each, two M203's, one M14, one M82, one M249, one M240, and officially one M9 for the team (but when we deployed we had one each). This gave our three man team between ten and twelve weapons for the team. There were nine teams just like mine in the company not counting the command/supply elements. Now yes we are still talking about lots of weapons but how many teams like this would it take to make up the numbers of weapons listed?

More importantly, though, military caliber ammunition could become a problem within a fairly brief time. Unless something has changed in the past few years, Lake City (Missouri) produces all the 5.56mm, 7.62mm, and 12.7mm for the military (I think 20mm also, but I never was involved in procuring that). Now, the stockpiles are likely in the billions of rounds (the number's classified, but the DoD regularly transfers millions of rounds to other agencies like the FBI or Marshal Service for their training without batting an eye, which gives at least a rough feel for how vast the number must be), but even if most aren't hit by the Exchange, distribution is still going to be a PITA in the post-apocalypse. I agree with the upthread comment that selective fire would likely be eliminated from most weapons in order to conserve ammo, and there'd probably also be a push to include the more common civilian calibers among second-tier units.
I have no idea about the ammo made and all that, but I do know that I have received in Iraq .50 Cal ammo with 1945 date stamp on it. I assume that it is a case of using the oldest first, but also know what happens when you assume. I would guess that old WWII ammo weapons (.45 ACP, .30-06, maybe even .30 carbine) would have surplus ammo, the newer rounds (5.56, and 7.62) would be more likely to run out early.

The Dark

02-04-2017, 08:46 AM

As for number of weapons per service member I do not know if they count the M203 as a separate weapon from the AR that it is attached to or not, but regardless some groups have many more weapons that others.Sure. There's a big difference in loadout between a dozen SOF operators and a dozen radar technicians for a carrier (just using those as an example since they're probably close to each end of the spectrum). For example my last years in I was EOD my three man team had one M4 each, two M203's, one M14, one M82, one M249, one M240, and officially one M9 for the team (but when we deployed we had one each). This gave our three man team between ten and twelve weapons for the team. There were nine teams just like mine in the company not counting the command/supply elements. Now yes we are still talking about lots of weapons but how many teams like this would it take to make up the numbers of weapons listed?At four weapons per person, it's be a bit under 700,000 people. The proportion starts to skew back the other way once you take into account the USAF and USN; aircraft carriers and airfields have relatively low ratios.

I have no idea about the ammo made and all that, but I do know that I have received in Iraq .50 Cal ammo with 1945 date stamp on it. I assume that it is a case of using the oldest first, but also know what happens when you assume. I would guess that old WWII ammo weapons (.45 ACP, .30-06, maybe even .30 carbine) would have surplus ammo, the newer rounds (5.56, and 7.62) would be more likely to run out early.I was poking around a bit to see what would be available on the civilian side, and one bulk seller (http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/2013-ammo-stats/#most_popular_caliber_and_ammo_stats) listed how much revenue they received for each caliber. The largest was 9mm Para, followed by .223 Remi, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .22 LR, 5.56x45mm NATO, 12 ga, and 7.62x51mm NATO. I don't know what it looked like back in the 90s, though.

.45cultist

02-04-2017, 09:08 AM

State Guard-Naval Militia Officer and Enlisted Career

This can cover some preppers as well. Using T2K2.2 and a later timeline allows for older PC's to be in these organizations and younger ones used in overseas campaigns.

swaghauler

02-07-2017, 08:17 PM

I built this AK-47 and it's legal and totally untraceable?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party

Another Option

This actually happens. A huge number of FALs were also built like this in the US during the early 90's as well. The preference was for the "Inch Model" (British parts kits) as it was considered by many aficionados to be more accurate, but a great many "Metrics" were built as well.

ArmySGT.

02-07-2017, 09:58 PM

One can also purchase an 80% AR-15 lower and take it to a build party. There are jigs and fixtures to machine one completely via CNC or manual mill.

.45cultist

02-08-2017, 04:48 AM

One can also purchase an 80% AR-15 lower and take it to a build party. There are jigs and fixtures to machine one completely via CNC or manual mill.

One CNC machine will pay for itself with six or more machinings.

Pinhead Slim

02-11-2017, 10:42 AM

I've got two ways of thinking with the M16EZ personally.

If it stays in the game at all, I change the wording so that the government sent out "Barreled upper assemblies and part kits", with the added fun of the parts kits notoriously missing one or two key parts. Although I'm more of a fan of option two.

Option two being that the M16EZ never existed at all, and everyone who would have got M16EZ kits got surplus weapons just like you guys are saying. M1 Carbines, Garands, and 1903 rifles all around!

When my games stick around in the US I have a tendency to make M1 Carbines the "default" gun of all sorts of people. Farmers, raiders, low level military/high level police, etc.

The Dark

02-11-2017, 03:22 PM

Option two being that the M16EZ never existed at all, and everyone who would have got M16EZ kits got surplus weapons just like you guys are saying. M1 Carbines, Garands, and 1903 rifles all around!
M1917 Enfields too, given that CMP still gets a couple dozen a year that were loaned by the Army to veterans' groups. It makes me wonder if there are any BARs still around. Between the 1903s, 1917s, Garands, and BARs, it would be possible to build the squad discussed earlier, where 1 or 2 have automatic weapons (the BARs) and everyone else either a semi-automatic or bolt-action (the 1903/1917/Garand), all using .30-06.

Pinhead Slim

02-11-2017, 04:01 PM

Also for what it's worth the M1 carbine can be quite easily converted to full auto, there are even still fully legal transferable kits you can still find today to convert your M1 to a full auto M2.

.45cultist

02-11-2017, 06:44 PM

For number of arms, in 2013 the United States advised the Small Arms Survey that they had 2,700,000 total military small arms; in 2010, there were 1.43 million active service members, so the numbers provided suggest around 2 firearms per service member on average, not including reservists. This is probably a little low, since other trinitarian militaries were around 2.5. Typical proportions of arms globally were found to be 72% selective-fire rifles, 13% pistols, 9% machineguns, and 6% other. I would expect the Twilight War military to be slightly higher, both due to having more servicemembers and (probably) a higher proportion of guns:people.

More importantly, though, military caliber ammunition could become a problem within a fairly brief time. Unless something has changed in the past few years, Lake City (Missouri) produces all the 5.56mm, 7.62mm, and 12.7mm for the military (I think 20mm also, but I never was involved in procuring that). Now, the stockpiles are likely in the billions of rounds (the number's classified, but the DoD regularly transfers millions of rounds to other agencies like the FBI or Marshal Service for their training without batting an eye, which gives at least a rough feel for how vast the number must be), but even if most aren't hit by the Exchange, distribution is still going to be a PITA in the post-apocalypse. I agree with the upthread comment that selective fire would likely be eliminated from most weapons in order to conserve ammo, and there'd probably also be a push to include the more common civilian calibers among second-tier units.

All those rounds are at a fraction of capacity, Lake city at full capacity would equal out to 4-5 times the U.S. civilian ammo makers. Also some specialty stuff was done elsewhere and only packed at L.C. Winchester did 9X19, L.C. only did one pistol round- the PGU-12/B High Velocity .38 SPL for the USAF. Winchester also did the .50BMG SLAP, but L.C. does the MK.211.

The Dark

02-11-2017, 10:21 PM

All those rounds are at a fraction of capacity, Lake city at full capacity would equal out to 4-5 times the U.S. civilian ammo makers. At full capacity, yes, but during the Twilight WarLake City wouldn't be able to reach full capacity. They'd have to take machines out of mothballs and hire and train new workers to expand production.

Before 9/11, total small arms ammunition consumption for the military was on the order of 350 million rounds per year. It went up to 1.1 billion rounds immediately after 9/11, which caused shortages because Lake City needed time to expand; as late as 2004 it produced 1 billion rounds per year. It took three years during a time when there weren't direct attacks to add 650 million rounds/year of capacity; this is probably close to the best performance that can be expected for a TW-era expansion.

At the point when they were producing 1.2 billion rounds per year in late 2005, they were using 70% of the floor space of the plant. It also required them to go from 650 employees at 350 million/year to 1,950 employees at 1.2 billion/year. Extrapolating out, they'd have a maximum capacity of around 1.7 billion/year, and would need around 2,600-2,700 employees to manage that production level. They'd also need no disruptions at their 1,800 suppliers (some of which had trouble with the real-world ramp-up). That rate of production would require three shifts per day, seven days per week, with minimal maintenance downtime on some very old machines.

Given the time frame of the Twilight War, you're looking at the pre-9/11 plant with a maximum output of 350 million rounds per year, with the next available equipment being machines mothballed since the Vietnam War, and with only 650 trained employees. Ramping up in wartime is going to be hard, particularly since there will be problems with primer supply. It requires 13 chemicals to make military primer, 10 of which are imported from Europe, China, Brazil, India, Canada, and Mexico.

To sum up, yes, Lake City has large capacity, but the logistics will be the problem. Particularly with the timing of the Twilight War, its workforce isn't large enough to expand production rapidly, much of its machinery is stored, and supply chain problems will cause a rapid decline in production capacity.

rcaf_777

02-12-2017, 02:41 PM

Also for what it's worth the M1 carbine can be quite easily converted to full auto, there are even still fully legal transferable kits you can still find today to convert your M1 to a full auto M2.

The M1 is a good choice for a state guard weapons, they are still being made by a few companies, they are also some available through the US CMP.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbines.html

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/Reviews2008/guns-weapons-LE.asp

https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Carbines/M1-1945.ht

I don't think any of the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifles (BAR) are left in the US, since 1986 you wouldn't be able to own them through CMP. Many more were given as aid to countries in South East Asian and South America.
I could see them be found is a few state guards if there owners brought them in.

The Dark

02-12-2017, 04:24 PM

The M1 is a good choice for a state guard weapons, they are still being made by a few companies, they are also some available through the US CMP.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbines.html

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/Reviews2008/guns-weapons-LE.asp

https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Carbines/M1-1945.ht

I don't think any of the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifles (BAR) are left in the US, since 1986 you wouldn't be able to own them through CMP. Many more were given as aid to countries in South East Asian and South America.
I could see them be found is a few state guards if there owners brought them in.There are a handful in private hands (there's usually at least one at Knob Creek), but the NG phased them out in the 70s, which (AFAIK) was the last major user in the US. Ohio Ordnance makes a semi-auto version that fires from a closed bolt, the M1918A3, but only since the late 90s, so it wouldn't be around during the Twilight War. It also wouldn't be very suitable for conversion to automatic fire, due to the closed bolt (plus it had some modifications to make it even less suitable after ATF rejected the original design). The HCAR (a modernized semi-auto BAR) is also far too new.

Pinhead Slim

02-12-2017, 05:19 PM

The Dark

02-12-2017, 09:08 PM

Something else to consider would be how well armed a unit might be based on its state of origin. I don't imagine there are many gunsmiths in most parts of the East Coast but here in Arizona you can't throw a rock without hitting a guy with a small machine shop in his garage, doing good work out of it. I imagine after the nukes full all sorts of those garage-shops will churn out a few select-fire ARs of various quality, and probably a ton of parts like "lightning links" that turn ARs into full auto only but are very simple and easy to make.

Combined with the sheer amount of guns in the state and any unit that began operating out of Phoenix could have all sorts of unique guns, many of them full auto. I have been personally offered an illegal unregistered select fire Mac-10 in trade before, and of course I turned it down but that kind of stuff just happens here. I mean heck, the Big Sandy shoot has been happening twice a year since the 90s, imagine if the largest private gathering of machine guns and artillery pieces in the United States got together right before Thanksgiving Day 1997. All of that firepower and enough ammo to feed it for the several all-day/all-night shoots in one area.USA Carry lists 44 gunsmiths in Arizona. There are 45 in Florida, 21 in Georgia, 11 in South Carolina, 45 in North Carolina, 42 in Virginia, 23 in Maryland, 19 in Pennsylvania, 2 in Delaware, 9 in New Jersey, 29 in New York, 13 in Connecticut, 5 in Rhode Island (!), 13 in Massachusetts, 15 in New Hampshire, 9 in Vermont, and 13 in Maine. All those numbers are probably low, since the number of gunsmiths is way higher than what shows on their site, but it gives a rough idea of the proportions involved. I decided to go look at manufacturers as well.

Speaking specifically of Florida (I'm more familiar with it than where I live now), there are a lot of small manufacturers, to the extent that Florida is #2 in the US for manufacturers with 691 licensed gun manufacturers (only Texas has more, with 1,103 - together, they account for 17% of the nation's manufacturers). Brevard County alone has 48, ranging from the fairly major (Kel-Tec, Knight's Armament, Diamondback) to small shops that manufacture components or do final assembly.

That said, the number of manufacturers has exploded in the past few years. From 2009 to 2015, the country went from 3,040 licensed manufacturers to 10,503. I don't know what it looked like in the early 90s.