Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull (Post 30262)

The thing is not only surplus Armor. At the Lake Superior State University campus there is not only old M60 tank, but also what looks to be 105mm How., maybe it 75mm one. The point is I have seen lot of the old artillery pieces spread out in front of this Armory or out on display here.

Not claiming that it would be easy to get any of these surplus piece in proper working order. Yet one paragraph in the game where it explain even if the unit wasn't entirely operational, have a few AFVs or IFVs or Armor Cars were more than enough to swing a battle into their owner favor. Especially if you were up against forces not equipped to take on such vehicles it was easier to run than stand and fight.

In many cases where a particular faction had Vehicle or artillery pieces they went to great details to explain what was malfunction if anything and what type of ammo reserve they had. T-72 with only Commander MG working, would still cause troops to run, a unit taking to the field with even a towed how. would cause the opposing force to be nervous. By 2000 it was the unknown on if they were operational or not. I can imagine seeing even Company or Battalion size force show up and setting up mortars would be bit unnerving to an militia unit that short on ammo, even though the other force may have two to four round per mortar tub. The average militia person wouldn't know that after they fired their first rounds...

Just some thoughts.

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly (Post 30265)

That's the problem with the display pieces, they have all been demilled which means that at least three holes have been cut into the tank barrel, the breech is either missing or has been welded in place.

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier (Post 30284)

Agreed, though for settlements with some engineering know how but without the wherewithal to build a cannon foundry, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of the possible to have something like a de-mil'ed 105mm gun converted to a lower pressure black powder breech or muzzle loader. (Of course, putting a 12 pounder Napoleon back in service would probably be even easier . . .)

Originally Posted by rcaf_777 (Post 30300)

Lets not forget about the Avalanche control units of the US state and federal forest service, many of these unit have Working Artillery 1055mm or 155mm that fire with ammunition at moutians.

Originally Posted by copeab (Post 30301)

Dear God, 1055mm? That's more than double the bore of the Yamato's guns. Do you control avalanches by destroying the mountains? :eek:

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly (Post 30319)

Doesn't everyone else?

Originally Posted by copeab (Post 30327)

Also, even WWII light tanks like the M3/M5 Stuart have some use. You might not have any ammo for the 37mm cannon, but you still have 2-3 .30-cal / 7.62mm MGs, and the armor is good enough to stop machinegun fire.

Originally Posted by kota1342000 (Post 30332)

http://joest2k.wetpaint.com/photo/11...+25mm+and+mk19
A M8 armored car with a 25mm cannon.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker (Post 30322)

Nuclear tipped I hope!
:rocketwho

Originally Posted by copeab (Post 30327)

Also, even WWII light tanks like the M3/M5 Stuart have some use. You might not have any ammo for the 37mm cannon, but you still have 2-3 .30-cal / 7.62mm MGs, and the armor is good enough to stop machinegun fire.

Originally Posted by kota1342000 (Post 30340)

That's true with the rubber tracks, but if you were building APCs like that out of other vehicles, it would probably be much easier to find surplus wheels and tires as opposed to finding or making the rubber tracks.

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly (Post 30338)

Don't forget that the early M-3s used riveted armor, the bolt heads had a nasty habit of shearing when hit!

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier (Post 30310)

At least some of them also use 106mm recoilless.

The choke point on them, as far as a scavenger sort of economy, is that I think the US government support for those programs doles out ammunition in ones and twos (or whatever) as needed. Someone in the government having made the occasional bright idea that handing out a 90mm or 106mm recoilless rifle and several pallets worth of ammunition in one go has a some very, very bad potential worst case outcomes.

Originally Posted by copeab (Post 30355)

True, but I'm an easier target behind a tripod-mounted MG than a rivet is on a tank ;)

Originally Posted by copeab (Post 30334)

I wonder if you could replace the 37mm ATG with a 40mm Mk 19?

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly (Post 30397)

Let's not talk about your eating habits, shall we!;)

Of course I'm in shape...round is a shape!

There are a couple of photos of various pre-WWII tanks that were sprayed with machineguns (both .50 and .30-cal)...now the
.50-cal would just punch through the paper-thin armor...but it was the effect of the .30-cal that caught my bloodshot eye....fired from 500 yards, the API bullets still had enough force to crack the rivet heads, sending the bolts flying about the interior....nasty!

Originally Posted by kota1342000 (Post 30496)

Anyone have thoughts on breech loading mortars that could be used in direct fire?

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull (Post 30501)

I suppose the crews inside weren't too happy about them either...

Originally Posted by schnickelfritz (Post 30512)

The easiest solution for the 37mm armed US tanks/afv's would be to just fabricate some adapters to place a M2HB in it's place. I bet you could fabricate the adapters with the tools and materials found in a basic machine shop.

The 50-cal would have plenty of range and hitting power for what you'd see coming at you anyway.

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b (Post 30515)

There are some light autocannons, such as the 20mm Oerlikon KAB, which can be mounted and used as easily as an M-2HB, except for the longer barrel length.