Maybe I'm being a stupid civvie, but why would mags for an issued rifle be contraband? Over the issued limit, or something?

There not considered an expendable item. A Unit is required to have so many on hand. Now Day to Day in Garrison, or to an FTX not a big deal. No one is going to need to draw their 7 mag issue. However not every magazine gets turned in after an FTX.

Going to War. The Commander has all his pre-inspections to do and the Armory Officer will have to come up with the required number for a complete issue to a unit.

I have never been in a Unit that couldn't pull together 100% after such a call for magazines; and still NCOs and some smart E4s still came up with extras.

Same here: The only reason I think we came up 100% before our deployment is that our supply sergeant did a drug deal to have a couple of hundred mags 'appear' in his supply room.

By and large, a lot of us bought our own mags: they was generally better. Then, that wasn't a big deal. But over the last year they are cracking down hard on personally purchased equipment - and banning anything that didn't come out of the supply room according to my friends that are still in. They are not too happy about that as the stuff they buy from Ranger Joe's, Magpul, or US Cav is typically a *lot* better than issue stuff. This is damned if you do, damned if you don't: By having Joe buy his own shit, the unit saves money that could be spent on other things: however, if things worked the way they should, Joe shouldn't have too... so... *shrugs*


(No, thats not a For Real Drug Deal: its slang for doing side deals with others to get things on the down low- so higher doesn't have to know about it - and they usually don't want to!)

I was in theater when they announced that Magpul PMags were now banned, along with anything else that wasn't USGI. This was kind of a pain for me, since all I was using were my PMags I either bought or got issued to me when I was SOF support and a Surefire 60 rounder. A lot of guys in my unit (probably about half the NCOs and E-4s who'd been around a little while) were in the same boat, to one extent or another, and we just kind of ignored it.

We got away with that while the "ban" was in effect by virtue of being about as remote from flagpoles as you could get in A'stan and still be affiliated with Big Army. It would not surprise me at all if the flew in extra sergeants major to BAF and KAF to stand outside DFACs and MWR computer/phone centers to check people for non-issue mags.

I say ban in quotes because apparently whoever announced it got slapped down after a couple weeks and it went away. It was kind of a dumb idea, since all sorts of conventional and cool kid units have purchasing mags with unit funds for a while now and some of the banned magazines (at least PMags) have a NSN assigned to them and can be ordered through the system.

Edit to Add: The above mentioned ban is the official, Big Army one. No representation is made about any unit-level regulation invention, (mis)interpretation, etc., that individuals may be subject to. Being old enough to remember the days before universal reflective belt use, nothing can really surprise me anymore along those lines.

One of the commonest tricks to acquire magazines is a thorough check of bivi areas after other units have been through. On field exercises I always used to get my advance party to do a thorough check to see what had been left behind. A couple spare always came in useful at the end of an ex when you had lost some.

Shooting competitions were another one where we seemed to end up with extra - most units wanted to get away quick (especially when it rained), we used to be the last to leave and check around again. For some reason we were never ever down magazines (having someone with OCD as your storeman is another good tip - especially when you don't tell cadets how many of the item you started with, only when they have enough to return them!).

When the SA80A2s came in, one of my ex cadets did me a favour and turned up with a carrier bag of the old A1 mags that guys in his (regular) unit no longer needed and wanted to find me a good home for until we changed to L98A2s (with A2 magazines).

Not bad knowing all these tricks and being an officer... really I just know to trust my senior NCOs to look after me!

I think the PMAG ban comes from the Law suit going on between the DOD (DARPA) and MagPul.

MagPul is suing the DoD for copyright infringement by using a direct copy of their anti tilt followers in the new round of issue magazines.

Yes, yes. That makes Big Army sense. Prevent the troops from using equipment they find useful to satisfy the lawyers.

Life would be so much better if the lawyers all had to do a tour as an 11B before being allowed to be in a lawsuit concerning military issues.

I think some General thought he was going to punish Magpul.

Look into the Defense industry Company Officers.

Shocking how many have COL. (Ret), BG (Ret.), MG (Ret), LTG (Ret), or Gen. (Ret.) behind their names.

Especially when you can find they are now working for Companies for which they were the Project Officer for when Active.

The other reasoning I've seen - take it for what it's worth - is that the ban came down because a bunch of Joes couldn't distinguish between Magpul polymer magazines (GTG) and, say, Tapco polymer magazines (crap). The intent, therefore, was to keep all polymer mags out of theatre so people wouldn't be using sub-standard/unreliable gear in combat.

Hadn't heard about the lawsuit, but now that it's been brought up, I find general officer spite an equally plausible explanation. :rolleyes:

- C.

Yeah, there are, sadly, always those guys -- they also are the ones who think a $100 NcStar ACOG knock off they found on eBay is a great deal and want to replace their issue AimPoint with it.

They run the most amok in units where the leadership has poor backgrounds with firearms stuff, and the easiest remedy is to just ban it if it isn't USGI. In my last unit our senior E-8 had some SOF time on his resume and reserved the right of review on anything anyone wanted to put on their weapon, so things like quality aftermarket optics and PMags were good to go. The guy who wanted to slap an eight power Chinese Leupold knock off he bought in the bazaar on his M4 and pretend he was a sniper . . . not so much.

Word on the street and such is that the improved "in house" Army follower design is just the Magpul design with the bullet guide swapped to the other side of the follower. I can only assume it was dreamed up by an alumni of the same clown college as the guys who invented the godforsaken ACU camouflage pattern. Sadly like ArmySGT touched on, all of those oxygen thieves will most likely make general and then segue directly into six figure income consulting or executive jobs with the defense industry and keep right on stealing oxygen and squandering tax payer money.

T2K bayonet
 

good investment in such an enviroment imho. Not all combat is going to " tactical" some of it is just going to be two starving guys squaring off over a moldy loaf of bread - being able to save a bullet by stabbing someone will make sense in such circumstances. All in all melee weapons will be more useful and more prolific.The bayonet is already issued and would probably be used a lot more than today . ( It is pretty much obsolete today - our unit didnt even issue them).

I suspect the club ( with / without spikes - a.k.a trench club) and the sharpened field showel would make comebacks.

A bayonet or just a spear would come in really handy dealing with aggressive feral dogs, as well. Lots of people who have access to a firearm in Y2K won't have access to enough ammunition to take pot shots at every dog (or pack of dogs) they run into.

+1+!

Hmmmm...makes me wish I still had my TS clearance with three special accesses...:D

back to the SKS. it would quickly be a popular weapon in the US due to the fact they've been cheap and available en-mass sinces around the 80's.(i also imagine the CD stockpiles of ww2 era weapons and ammo would also be released so the M1 carbine and chicago typewriter would also make comebacks.:D)

If the intended target of the bayonet actually gets the message "I'm going to come over there and kill you, blah, blah," then the bayonet user has seriously misused the bayonet. The bayonet is for use in darkness or under conditions of very restricted lines of sight, like a trench or fighting position. Even then, the user should be following up a grenade attack. The best use of the bayonet isn't fighting. The best use of the bayonet is finishing off folks who have been stunned by the use of another weapon or who can't see the bayonet user coming.

I sort of disagree with the last sentence.

History seems full of examples in which one side in combat will give up a position rather than face a determined and aggressive enemy up close. It doesn't have to be with bayonets fixed, as you say, it could be grenades or just the sight of the enemy coming and coming closer. So, IMO, if the enemy gets the message that "I'm coming over there to kill you" and they aren't motivated enough to stay around, then the bayonet has done its job, whether or not it's fixed. It's the willingness to close to bayonet range (or, in reverse, the willingness to stand at that range in the face of an attack) that sometimes wins battles.

Best source for this: Paddy Griffith's "Forward into battle"

So the bayonet is really beside the point. It's the spirit of aggression that causes a less-committed enemy to retire. The Japanese banzai charges failed not because their bayonets weren't fixed but because the Americans were willing to stand and fight and just happened to have superior firepower.

And I'm completely in agreement with Adm.Lee.

Bayonets don't need to be inserted into flesh to be effective, in fact the best result is achieved when they're simply presented forcefully and the intended recipient up and flees. As said many, many times in the past (one quote from the old British TV show "Dads Army" springs to mind) "they don't like it up 'em!"

If on the other hand the attacker shows any reluctance at all in closing and drawing blood, it all becomes a bit of a joke. Speed and (especially) AGRESSION is key.

Gurkhas. Fists full of cold steel and death in their eyes. Terrifying.

Most sources show that the act of fitting the bayonet is a wonderful way to concentrate the attackers' minds prior to the attack. the defenders will not have this advantage thus giving the reason that bayonet charges frequently work.

It certainly did for me, and for the times I was carrying the machinegun (most of the time) I had a hand axe on my webbing. :p