I liked the Maxim with the Holo Sight on it. The Ukrainians are truly our (American) "gun cousins." Normally, only a US "redneck" would take the time to fabricate a sight mount for a gun built more than 100 years ago.

At the rate that Russia is losing its armor and jets, I wonder how long it will be before Russian arms dealers are trying to buy Macedonia's MIG 19s?

Good point, but I wasn't suggestion a return to the desperate human wave attacks of 1941-'42. I'm just surprised that the Russians haven't really tried to replicate the very successful (and less costly) tactic of preceding attempted breakthroughs with infantry infiltration attacks, instead of trying to batter their way through with armor (which clearly isn't working very well thanks to St. Javelin and her friends).

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Given current Russian performance though, getting pasted by the West makes TDM more likely in any WW3 scenario.

I have a suspicion those T-62s are being shipped up to be used as static defensive emplacements. The Russians have supposedly been fortifying their gains in the south ahead of a Ukrainian counterattack.

My thinking was that they were going to swap the T-62s for the DPR and LPR's T-72 and T-80 tanks (and possibly the T-64s, although AFAIK Russia doesn't have any T-64 units these days). That way, they could get some resupply (or at least parts donor tanks) for their own units under the guise of standardizing the insurrectionists' equipment. I may be too generous in my assumptions about their thinking about logistics, though.

Ukraine had 35,000 PM1910/41 in storage about a decade ago. There are a lot of shelves to pull them from, and for a vehicular or fortification mount where the gun doesn't have to be particularly mobile, it's still a perfectly valid piece of equipment.

M1945 D-44 85mm Field Gun
 

A WW2-era tank gun (T34/85) fielded as a towed anti-tank gun, with secondary (or primary, depending on the bigger picture) indirect artillery capabilities. If it's seeing combat use in today's Ukraine, IRL, it would definitely feature in the Twilight War.

https://www.army.mil/article/222483/...m_antitank_gun

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DP-27 LMG
 

This cool Twitter feed (Ukraine Weapons Tracker) includes a pic of a WWII-era DP-27 LMG fitted with an optic and suppressor.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons?ref_sr...0408%2Fpage-10

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1895 Nagant
 

In the Twilight War I can see the large numbers of 1895 seven shot Nagant revolvers being brought of deep storage and issued to mobilization only divisions or dispersed to Pact Allies mobilization only divisions. What say you?

Some Russian Generals carry the Nagant even now. So it would probably be issued out at some point in the Twilight War.

Ferrets on the Loose!
 

Back from 1952, the Ferret Scout Car, formerly known by the less ferocious sobriquet, the Field Mouse, is making an appearance in Ukraine.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-up-in-ukraine

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Albania and Carcano carbines
 

From the recent 25 years ago updates...anyone care to speculate how many Albanian reservists will be fortunate enough to have SKS/SKS clones and how many will be issued Carcano rifles courtesy of Italy from World War II?

According to this site, there's all kinds of old stuff in use there, especially among the militias!

Relatively few SKS - Albania produced only 15-20K of them. In the early 2000s, the most common weapons seized from illegal stockpiles that had been looted from armories were the AK-47, TT pistol, M56 submachine gun, and only as a fairly distant fourth the SKS. Especially because of the emphasis on partisan/guerilla warfare, I expect a lot of reservists would be issued SMGs to provide a base of fire, with one or two SKS in a squad as sharpshooters/designated marksmen.

Also, the NATO stockpile update by the Clinton Administration never happened in V1-2.2 canon. This means that the US has M1911A1's, M3A1's, M14's and M48A5's warehoused and not given to Turkey.

MAP Small Arms
 

For V1 or 2 canon could we also assume there would be an expedited return of M1 Garand, M 1 Carbines and 1911's from Military Assistance Programs to Allies or would you as referee assume the small arms would be of limited use and left in place rather than devote resources to bring them back home?

I don't think the government would bother trying to bring back such weapons. Before TDM there wouldn't be much of a need and after TDM there wouldn't be much capability.

Even if they came back to the US, ammunition production after TDM would be common NATO rounds to support the war, not oddball (relatively speaking) rounds for M1 Garands and Carbines.

As far as .30-06, I think that there would be more around than you think, but in the civilian supply chain. .30-06 is a common hunting round in the US and to a lesser extent in the rest of the world, and commercial manufacturing has been going strong since the 1910s.

M1 descendants are also fairly common hunting weapons, so there may be less spare parts issues with issue of M1 Garands from government stocks or impounded civilian stocks. (I don't think this would happen until post-TDM, however.)

Lake City loads 100,000 AP rounds or so every few years for body armor testing. the armor levels are based on the .30-06 AP penetration.

Like I said, before TDM there wouldn't be a need for M1s (Garand or Carbine) and after TDM there might be a need but little means to actually get them to the US. Post-TDM no one is going to spend valuable fuel to transport a bunch of rifles back to the US.

In terms of ammo production, the US would likely enforce the Defense Production Act as soon as US forces start fighting. So from 1996 onwards small arms companies are going to be spitting out NATO standard stuff (guns, ammo, maintenance kits, etc). Production of ammo etc for the civilian market will drop to a trickle.

The US getting a few tens of thousands of M1s will be a logistical challenge rather than a helpful addition. Every cleaning kit, stripper clip, and .30-06 round is one less produced that could be used for the US/NATO service weapons.

So I don't see the utility of the US trying to field M1s. I do however think those MAP recipient countries would be fielding them. Even if their front line forces had newer weapons they'd equip militias/conscripts/rear echelons with their old M1s. The sorts of places that got MAP weapons aren't seeing the same level of fighting as Europe or the Far East.

m1 rifles in service
 

Logistically, bringing the M1 Garand back would be tough. I suggest that it would be done for some of the reasons below:

a) Frees up the last stores of more modern weapons (Coast Guard, Naval Land detachments, Training battalions, etc.) for front line use.

b) Commercially available ammunition (Government purchase or confiscation).

c) One shot, one kill.

d) Lots of variants and parts available.

e) Semi automatic firepower for units that may lack it (State Militias and the like).

f) Cross compatibility with the M1895, M1903, M1917 rifle, M1917 mmg, M1918 bar, M1919mmg and the plethora of hunting rifles in this caliber.

g) Kalashnikov-esque ruggedness that has already been bought and paid for by Uncle Sam.

If given the choice, I would take an M1 Garand coming out of mothballs rather than some baffed out M16EZ, re-issued battlefield pickup, or some other abomination in a scarce sized caliber, particularly if based in CONUS. the only real drawbacks are the en-block clip availability, lack of skilled armorers and smiths, and the chance of getting the wrong ammo at the wrong time.

The issue would be NUMBERS. In the 90s, there were around 100K M1s in the US inventory, mostly as parade rifles or for the Civilian Marksmanship Program. Canada had roughly an equal number in the RCMP arsenal. There were more than 2 MILLION M16A1s in the US arsenal. So the US would most likely just issue M16A1s to those agencies that needed them.

He really did destroy a lot of guns in 1994-1995. I remember them melting down something like 250K M14 rifles and 500k M1911s. That broke my heart because they used to be sold as surplus.

Also all the SEAL Stoners, the old M1911's and Thompsons in the FBI inventory. DOJ/ATF facilities might yield militia gear.

I don't have an issue with the M16A1 count of over two million in the US Arsenal. Canada used limited numbers of the M1 rifle, and I severely doubt that the RCMP maintained an arsenal of 100K. Canada only procured a brigade set, which I suspect was for the WW2 vintage special service force. These disappeared from service in the 1950s, and being .30-06, would be an anomaly in the caliber suite (The M1919 were rebored to 7.62mm nato). Would there come confusion with the Lee-Enfield or perhaps the C1 (L1 SLR)?
My point is simply that all cards are on the table and the frontline troops would need the most modern weapons available, so the rear areas and home areas would see these rifles pressed into service even on a small scale.

It was in fact the RCMP who were selling those M1s in the 1990s. I have the one I bought hanging on the wall as I type this. They also had CASES of both .30-06 ammo and .303 ammo. The .303 sold for as little as $25 US per case and the .3006 was $30 per case. Those were war-surplus wooden ammo crates too. They were also selling Enfields as I bought one of those too. My local gunshop bought 100 of each as well as 100 M1 Carbines. I do NOT know why the RCMP was selling those weapons but they were READILY AVAILABLE up until Clinton started his gun control measure just before the '94 ban in the US. They were also selling S&W Model 10 .38 heavy barrels and Browning Hi Powers, but I wasn't able to snag one of those. I do not know why the RCMP had those weapons, but they all appeared to be war surplus by their condition and the TWO CASES of ammo I bought were produced in the early 50s. One was US production and the other case was made by RADWAY. That Radway was some light-shooting .303.

Hey Swag,

We are not confusing Royal Canadian Mounted Police with the Citizen Marksmanship Program? I can find information on about 8-10k of the Garand that were sent to Canada, along with more limited numbers of M1-M2 carbines as well.
With the S & W Model 10 and the Inglis Hi-Power, I think you are correct that the weapons originated in Canada.
Would be nice to compare notes on this.

Also German police agencies, corrections and forestry agencies have M1 carbines.

Nope. The guns came from the RCMP. Maybe that was due to Canada exporting them to the US (ie they had to be distributed by the RCMP)? I only know my M1 is a Springfield made during the Korean war era (by serial number). My Enfield was WWII vintage.

I see that the RCMP are STILL selling M1 Garands today (there is an article on them).

Would you be able to post a link?

One of the most interesting aspects of the current war in Ukraine is that it gives a window into what Western aid to China in 1995 would've looked like (on a vastly larger scale, and with the "Chinese Tank Breaker" scenario already having played out in the analogue of St. Javelin), and the larger issue of supplying weapons and gear that the Chinese would've already had familiarity with. Does the West just throw open the armories and dump Garands/Enfields and stockpiles of WWII gear? Or do they scour the Third World for Soviet gear that can be sent to China in exchange for upgraded western tech (I can see Egypt being a substantial source of this supply). In any event, a lot of cool gear would've been fed into China long before the war spread west, let alone the TDM.

That's a really good point. I think what we're seeing with aid to Ukraine since February strongly suggests that the US and its allies are going to be sending pretty much everything they can spare, or get their hands on from willing third parties. Like with Ukraine, this would result in an eclectic mix of the ultra-modern (eg "Tank Breaker" ATGMS), obsolescent stuff pulled from storage mothballs (eg Redeye MANPADs), and nearly everything in between. I'm following a "Ukraine Weapons Tracker" on Twitter that does a good job illustrating the point.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons?ref_sr...0408%2Fpage-10

All kinds of stuff, some of it rather antiquated (eg. Swedish recoilless rifles) is showing up there. Yesterday, the account posted a pic of 155mm artillery shells made in Pakistan.

At the same time, I think the Chinese might reject some "donations", like, for example, M1 Garand rifles, as being not-worth-the-trouble to field. Ukraine has essentially rejected some proffered military aid- fairly recent reports are indicating that the Ukrainians shot down US offers of A-10 Warthogs as they continue to press for more modern multi-role Western fighters instead.

Besides Egypt, in a v1 T2k timeline, I can see Pakistan being a third party supplier to the Chinese. The US has some sway there, and a lot of Pakistani weaponry from that era originated in China.

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It was on Gun Broker in an article. You might search there but I'm not sure about where I saw it. The US CMP is also selling M1s. They have about 10k to auction off.

Antique Ammo
 

Apparently, Russia's unable to keep up with ammunition expenditures and is literally having to dust off and issue 40+ year-old ammunition.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2022-12-12/

This belies the notion, popular in games like Fallout, that ammo has a long shelf-life.

I reckon that the issuance of old ammo would happen in the later stages of the Twilight War as well. Between antiquated ammo, and post-exchange new manufactures (with access to high quality materials limited), I'd wager that ammo failures would be a common occurrence in the T2kU.

AFAIK, there's no explicit mechanic for this in any version of T2k rules. Most players are probably grateful for this. I wonder if any GMs have house-ruled late war bad ammo (either too old, or too new) in their campaigns. I've only run 2.2. When a PC rolled a 1 on a ranged small arms attacks, I rolled a two-sider (digitally). On a 1, there was a stoppage and the PC had to spend a turn clearing it. For explosive rounds (grenades, mortar bombs, artillery shells) a rolled 1 was an automatic dud. I'm too lazy to look up the rules right now, so I'm not sure if this idea was mine or something straight from the rulebook.

Anyway, figured that 40 year old ammo qualifies as "out of mothballs".

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Depends on the quality and storage.

May interest...

I think ths site, in general, has been posted here before:
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/...e-98k-in-iraq/
The 98k is issued to militia / local defence squads in one of the canon / official T2k adventure books.

I was genuinely surprised how far WW11 German weapons had got:
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/...e-vietnam-war/
So, something to do with all those plastic model 75mm Pak 40s I have...

Some of the 98ks the Soviets captured at the end of WW11...
https://wwiiafterwwii.files.wordpres...soviet1945.jpg

Photo here I believe of a Garand being used in 2018.
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/...nd-in-vietnam/

I think this links to the photo directly:
https://wwiiafterwwii.files.wordpres...01/dec2018.jpg

These are very interesting posts and something miniature figures tend to forget for characters armed with unusual/obsolete weapons.
In a Twilight 2000 world I could easily see militia units being equipped with WW2 or 1950s weapons and I often wonder how many Lee Enfields Britain still had in the 80s and 90s.

Not sure. It appears they are legal to own in The UK if you have a firearms certificate.

I am sure there be some in various Army Cadet and Air Training Corps buildings in the 80's and 90's. They definitely were in the late 70's or there was access to them. The rifle(s) was kept locked in one place and the bolts somewhere else IIRC. I think they did not have a magazine fitted. I do not know if they could if need. The .22 rifles which looked similar did not. Again IIRC I fired a Martini Henry carbine (?) as well that was .22.

But it was about 45 years ago! I remember missing the target with the .303. I tensed up too much. I was much better with the .22. Never 'a marksmen' but I hit the target.

In 'the real world' the Canadian Rangers (who I think feature in a T2K article) were using Lee Enfield's until 2016 according to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee%E2%80%93Enfield#Users