TW2k13

[Medic]

Which one? I've dabbled with creating stats for the Reflex before. I'm no Tegyrius, but I think I could give it a shot.

[Tnchi2a]

Originally Posted by Medic

Which one? I've dabbled with creating stats for the Reflex before. I'm no Tegyrius, but I think I could give it a shot.

So have I, And was just trying to see if we could get all the dabbling in one place.

We could also post links to Official/Unofficial Stats on the internet.
http://www.de-fenestra.com/personal/...3wiki/doku.php

[Medic]

I have had air combat rules for Reflex under works for some time as well as supplemental medical rules. They should be somewhere around this forum - I can dig up the right thread eventually. I have also done some work on my native Finnish military for the Reflex. Throw me a PM with details of what vehicles you want me to take a look at and I'll give it a shot.

[Medic]

I would suggest merging this thread with this one: http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...2013#post55151

[Tnchi2a]

well Medic it looks like were the only ones around here who like 2013

[Medic]

There are others. Tegyrius, for an example, has written some official material for it, not to mention the Czech sourcebook and vehicle compendium.

[Tegyrius]

Hm?

I think my stuff's already been linked in this thread. Not sure what else I can contribute without a request for a specific model of vehicle or weapon. "MBT/IFV/CFV" doesn't tell me much.

- C.

[Tnchi2a]

was not directed at anyone just seems that 2013 gets the shaft alot because of the story and not the game itself.
and yes i think i linked your stuff earlier in the thread

[Medic]

And my point in mentioning Teg was to note, we're not the only ones. I believe, there are others as well, who like the newer edition.

As I tried to say in my first post for the thread, we can figure stuff out together and figure out, where to post them. Throw me ideas and we can discuss them.

[unkated]

Originally Posted by Medic

but before I do that, I'll give you the altitude bands that turn the air combat in to 3D.


The table essentially cross references the altitude and horizontal range for actual firing range.

No, I did not use 3D-geometry for calculating the exact ranges, but if someone wants to do that, be my guest.

A quick rule of thumb for 3D range (we use it for Fighting Wings, WW2 aerial combat):

Take the horizontal and vertical ranges, and add half of the smaller to the larger. Doesn't matter which is larger (hypotenuse is a hypotenuse).

For example, range to a helicopter 3000 m away and 2000 m up is treated as 4000m (3000 + 2000/2).

(The math answer is 3605.551 m).

And if that same helicopter closes to almost overhead... 300 m away and the same 2000 m up is treated as 2150 m (300/2 + 2000) = 2150

(the math answer is 2022.375 m)

It's an approximation, but it's within 10-12% accurate, which isn't bad for something you can do in your head.

Uncle Ted

[Medic]

Originally Posted by unkated

A quick rule of thumb for 3D range (we use it for Fighting Wings, WW2 aerial combat):

Take the horizontal and vertical ranges, and add half of the smaller to the larger. Doesn't matter which is larger (hypotenuse is a hypotenuse).

For example, range to a helicopter 3000 m away and 2000 m up is treated as 4000m (3000 + 2000/2).

(The math answer is 3605.551 m).

And if that same helicopter closes to almost overhead... 300 m away and the same 2000 m up is treated as 2150 m (300/2 + 2000) = 2150

(the math answer is 2022.375 m)

It's an approximation, but it's within 10-12% accurate, which isn't bad for something you can do in your head.

Uncle Ted

This would indeed streamline the rules and drop the need for a conversion table. It would also remove several altitude bands, effectively leaving NOE, Low, Medium and High, I suppose.

Thank you for the idea. I was clearly approaching this in a far too complex manner.

[Targan]

As requested by Medic, I've merged his thread TW2k13 with the Reflex vehicle stats thread.

[Medic]

Thank you.

[Medic]

While the Reflex has rules for extreme weather, people wanting even more accurate rules for extremely cold weather (like nuclear winter) might enjoy this. This is work in progress so suggestions are taken.

Extreme hot and hot weather clothes protect down to +10 degrees centigrade, mild down to +0, cold down to -20 and extreme cold to -35. Weather one grade worse without proper shelter causes the character to get chilly and sleeping properly will be impossible. Inactivity counts as light work, meaning just being does not increase fatigue but won't decrease it either. Weather two grades or more beyond the threshold causes all activity without shelter to be heavy work in terms of fatigue and character accumulates fatigue twice as fast as he normally would (that is, heavy work causes fatigue every 30 minutes).

Upon reaching critical fatigue, the character becomes malignantly hypothermic, causin him to lose consciousness. Unless someone intervenes and brings the character in to a shelter and begins a slow warming up of the character, the character will perish due to the basic functions of the body failing. To warm up a malignantly hypothermic character properly requires a Medicine (COG, TN+2 or TN if character had Intensive Care qualification). Failure causes the character to enter shock and requires resuscitation to keep the character among the living.

Clothing can be layered, however. Two sets of hot weather clothing work as mild, two mild as cold and a set of mild and cold weather clothing as extreme cold weather clothing, but cause a -2 to any check requiring physical action due to stiff joints.

Extreme hot weather rules coming up, once I figure them out. Any comments?

[Cdnwolf]

Originally Posted by Medic

While the Reflex has rules for extreme weather, people wanting even more accurate rules for extremely cold weather (like nuclear winter) might enjoy this. This is work in progress so suggestions are taken.

Extreme hot and hot weather clothes protect down to +10 degrees centigrade, mild down to +0, cold down to -20 and extreme cold to -35. Weather one grade worse without proper shelter causes the character to get chilly and sleeping properly will be impossible. Inactivity counts as light work, meaning just being does not increase fatigue but won't decrease it either. Weather two grades or more beyond the threshold causes all activity without shelter to be heavy work in terms of fatigue and character accumulates fatigue twice as fast as he normally would (that is, heavy work causes fatigue every 30 minutes).

Upon reaching critical fatigue, the character becomes malignantly hypothermic, causin him to lose consciousness. Unless someone intervenes and brings the character in to a shelter and begins a slow warming up of the character, the character will perish due to the basic functions of the body failing. To warm up a malignantly hypothermic character properly requires a Medicine (COG, TN+2 or TN if character had Intensive Care qualification). Failure causes the character to enter shock and requires resuscitation to keep the character among the living.

Clothing can be layered, however. Two sets of hot weather clothing work as mild, two mild as cold and a set of mild and cold weather clothing as extreme cold weather clothing, but cause a -2 to any check requiring physical action due to stiff joints.

Extreme hot weather rules coming up, once I figure them out. Any comments?

What would be the effect of extreme cold on weapons? Also can you do one for high altitude fighting. I am looking to have some battles in the Alp regions.

[Medic]

I would raise the maintenance requirements for a weapon in cold and extreme cold to two- and threefold respectively. It's even worse if the weather changes rapidly - I've seen the Finnish assault rifle freeze over so badly, even the famous AK-style action failed as the whole mechanics had frozen shut. Then again, the wepon had been fired the day before and to ease the cleaning, the weapon had been oiled with gun grease. If a extremely cold weather, a remedy for this ailment is to use lamp petrol for lubrication rather than oil.

As for the high altitude - I'll have to do some research.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

well Medic it looks like were the only ones around here who like 2013

It can grow on you. I'm trying it again, my T2K2.2 work stems from overlap with Dark Conspiracy.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Medic

I would raise the maintenance requirements for a weapon in cold and extreme cold to two- and threefold respectively. It's even worse if the weather changes rapidly - I've seen the Finnish assault rifle freeze over so badly, even the famous AK-style action failed as the whole mechanics had frozen shut. Then again, the wepon had been fired the day before and to ease the cleaning, the weapon had been oiled with gun grease. If a extremely cold weather, a remedy for this ailment is to use lamp petrol for lubrication rather than oil.

As for the high altitude - I'll have to do some research.

Altitude Sickness has all the same effects as the Flu. It's onset will generally occur in 2 to 3 days after arrival at or above 5K feet (I would subtract CON from 11 and divide by 2 for onset) and CAN be avoided by an Ave:CON roll. Fatigue or wounds will aggravate the onset of Altitude Sickness.

Snow Blindness is a result of not having eye protection on bright snowy environments. You can manufacture a set of snow goggles. this is an easy task for any experienced Mountaineer or Arctic Survival Expert. I would treat snow blindness as a slow loss of vision. Using the Version 2.2 rules; you would start at light level 2 and it would increase by 1 level after each hour. You could resist this with a CON+INT roll. A successful roll would mean NO increase in the light level multiplier. If you reach level 5; Your blind (at least temporarily).

At high altitude, it will take much longer to produce fire, boil water, etc... due to the reduced oxygen content. Explosions will have a reduced Blast or Concussion effect but Frag will travel much further (because of reduced air density). Flamethrowers will have reduced range (due to the altitude's effect on the pressure in the cylinder and fuel stream). Batteries will also be affected. They will produce less power and die sooner (both altitude and cold will cause this due to a slowing of the battery's power producing/storing reaction). Most US equipment is proofed for -25F and will function at altitude.

[Medic]

Swaghauler pretty much nailed it. I suppose, I need to write a more detailed ruleset for diving then, being a recreational diver myself and having done my nursing school thesis on dive related injuries.

[swaghauler]

Nothing like a little "Euphoria of the Deep," or a touch of "The Bends." Open Water Advanced since the early 90's. Did my Cold Weather Mountain Training with the 10th in Upstate Maine. It was F**king COLD too.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by Medic

There are others. Tegyrius, for an example, has written some official material for it, not to mention the Czech sourcebook and vehicle compendium.

I'm one of them! I'm on record here as loving T:2k13. I just don't have anyone to play a game with

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

What would be the effect of extreme cold on weapons? Also can you do one for high altitude fighting. I am looking to have some battles in the Alp regions.

In addition to what I posted before; You must consider range effects based on altitude. The thin air will allow an increase in range with most long arms (pistol ammo will not have an appreciable effect in 2013 range band rules). In version 2.2, you should allow 2 meters for pistols, 5 meters for SMGs and shotguns, and 10 meters for rifles. It is for this reason that most world's record shots are at altitude.

Vehicles will suffer a loss of top speed and acceleration above 10K feet. For every 1000 feet in elevation (starting at 10k ft) reduce the vehicle's acceleration and top speed by 10%. Two stroke motors (sorry all you Harley Riders and my fellow truckers) are particularly vulnerable due to the engine needing to compress the fuel for proper ignition. My Pete was breathing really hard when I crossed the Rockies and I was only at about 5500 feet.

You must also consider what happens to the human body at altitudes above 10k feet. The air is so thin at this altitude that you should add 1 level of Fatigue for anyone not acclimated to this altitude. If your fighting in Peru; remember that above 14K feet, you must add another level of Fatigue for anyone not acclimated to the altitude. Above 14K, you are in the "Danger Zone." Prolonged exposure to altitudes above 14k feet can result in all kinds of cardiac and respiratory problems. The UV radiation at this altitude is also very potent. If your fighting on K2; Altitudes above 20K are known as "The Death Zone." You are literally dying from O2 starvation. Every day you are above 20K feet without bottled O2 to breath, make a roll verses your CON. A failed roll equals the loss of 1 point of CON. The difficulty of this roll should be based on your level of exertion. When your CON hits 0, YOU DIE.
Acclimation takes about 2 weeks of exposure to the altitude in question. You cannot acclimate to 20K+ foot altitudes.

[unkated]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

What would be the effect of extreme cold on weapons? Also can you do one for high altitude fighting. I am looking to have some battles in the Alp regions.

Not quite. An insignificant difference, perhaps, but I think you'll find the operational characteristics of the M-16 indicate that a bullet will decelerate as much as 40 feet per second per second faster in these climate conditions. It's denser air, you know.

- David Jones, Ice Station Zebra (1968) (re/Arctic combat). Of course, high altitude will counter that.

Slightly higher chance of malfunction due to the cold, especially with weapons with moving parts or springs (like automatic weapons). OTOH, weapons prone to overheating do so less often...

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by unkated

Not quite. An insignificant difference, perhaps, but I think you'll find the operational characteristics of the M-16 indicate that a bullet will decelerate as much as 40 feet per second per second faster in these climate conditions. It's denser air, you know.

- David Jones, Ice Station Zebra (1968) (re/Arctic combat). Of course, high altitude will counter that.

Slightly higher chance of malfunction due to the cold, especially with weapons with moving parts or springs (like automatic weapons). OTOH, weapons prone to overheating do so less often...

The M1, M14 shine here, when they start to be difficult, one can beat the bolt back with a 2X4.

[Cdnwolf]

Like this

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

The M1, M14 shine here, when they start to be difficult, one can beat the bolt back with a 2X4.

We had a "confiscated" AK-47 (type 2 no less) that had all of its bluing replaced by rust in Somalia. The bolt rusted shut and we'd just kick it open with the heel of our boot; load a mag and fire it off. It NEVER failed to work. We used motor oil for lubricant on it and would mag dump it until the hand guards smoked. It wasn't very accurate (it had been around since 1951 and who knows how much of that in Africa) and was heavy as h**l; but it shot flawlessly. We had to turn it over to Battalion after about 2 weeks with it. There was talk about NOT telling command about it, but we did the right thing. I really liked that AK's reliability. It was slightly better than my A2 and at least an order of magnitude better than an A1.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

We had a "confiscated" AK-47 (type 2 no less) that had all of its bluing replaced by rust in Somalia. The bolt rusted shut and we'd just kick it open with the heel of our boot; load a mag and fire it off. It NEVER failed to work. We used motor oil for lubricant on it and would mag dump it until the hand guards smoked. It wasn't very accurate (it had been around since 1951 and who knows how much of that in Africa) and was heavy as h**l; but it shot flawlessly. We had to turn it over to Battalion after about 2 weeks with it. There was talk about NOT telling command about it, but we did the right thing. I really liked that AK's reliability. It was slightly better than my A2 and at least an order of magnitude better than an A1.

I had several Glock 17's and Ak-47 that I got to work on for the Iraqi's Police. In the six months to a year that they had them, they no longer would work, you could not get the bolt on the AK's to open no matter what you hit them with, with or without lubricant and the pistols they had destroyed the barrels. It was due to a total lack of maintenance and using bad ammo.

[Milano]

Cdnwolf Swaghauler and Unkatedif I was browsing through this and I figured that if you would like a pretty good approximation of projectile behavior at altitude and extreme cold you can use my Excel spread sheet.

If you search for my topic Real Life Small Arms and download the file. On the Ballistics Table tab in cells A14 and A15 there is Altitude and Temperature. You can get a general trend of what the climate will do by imputing a few weapons. I have found Wikipedia to be a pretty good resource for such things.

Just my 2 cents (and a plug)

[Tnchi2a]

Sorry its taken so long to get back her, but getting ready for classes has taken most of my time
also didnt help that i chopped the tip of my finger off

I was asked awile back what stats i was looking for
Here is a list of all the currently operational MBT in the world
now some of these have been done already so we have a base to start from.

Main Battle Tanks
TAM Tank
M1A1 AIM
SK 105
Leopard 1 BE
M3 Stuart Upgrade
X1A Stuart
X1A2 Stuart
Leopard C2
Leopard C2 uparmored
Type 59 MBT (T-54A)
Type 59-I MBT
Type 59-II MBT
Type 69-II MBT (export)
Type 79 MBT
Type 80 MBT
Type 88 MBT
Type 88B MBT
Type 85-IIAP MBT (export)
Type 99 MBT
T-55 w/105mm
AMX-13 Export 105mm
AMX-30
AMX-30 B2*
Leclerc
Leopard 1A5
Leopard 2A4
Leopard 2A5
Leopard 2A6
Vijayanta (Vickers Mk.I )
Arjun Mk 1*
Merkava 2B
Merkava 3
Merkava 3B Baz
Merkava 3B Dor Dalet
Merkava 4*
Sabra II
C1 Ariete
C1 Ariete Mk 2
OF-40
Type 74 MBT
Type 90 MBT
Type 10 MBT
Al-Khalid
Al-Hussein (Challanger 1)
Leopard 1-V
Ch’onma-ho I (Ga)(T-62 with thinner armour)
Ch’onma-ho II MBT (Imported T-62s)
Ch’onma-ho IM (Improved imported T-62)
Ch’onma-ho III(Da) MBT
Ch’onma-ho IV(Ra) MBT
Ch’onma-ho V(Ma) MBT
Pokpung-Ho (Seems to be a copy of the Modern T-72BM?)
NM-116
PT-91*
PT-91A*
T-72M1Z*
T-34/85
T-54
T-54B
T-55/T-55A
T-55MV-1 / T-55AMV-1
T-62 /T-62A
T-62M
T-62M1
T-62MV
T-64B1
T-64BV1
T-64R
T-72
T-72M Export
T-72A
T-72M1 Export
T-72B
T-72S Export
T-72B1
T-72M1M Export
T-72BM
T-80
T-80B*
T-80U*
T-80UM*
T-80UD*
T-90
T-90A
T-90S Export
Olifant 1 (Centurion)
Olifant 1A
Olifant 1B
K1A MBT
K2 Black Panther
Strv 121 (Leopard 2A4)
Strv 122 (Leopard 2A5)
Pz 68 MBT (being withdrawn from service)
M41 Walker Bulldog
M41D Walker Bulldog
CM-11 (M48H)*
CM-12 (M48A3 upgd)*
Stingray
M48A5T1
M48A5T2
Vickers Mk 3
Challenger 2
M5 Stuart
M47M (export only)
M48A1
M48A3
M48A5
M60A1
M60A3
M1A1
M1A1HA / M1A1HC
M1A1D
M1A2
M1A2 SEP
M1A2 TUSK
M1A1 Export
M1A2 Export
Zulfiqar

as you can see theres alot of them so its more then a one man job

[unkated]

I'll apologize if this is not the right place, but can someone summarise the differences between the mechanics of T2013 vs T2K V2.2?

Thanks,

Uncle Ted