Gun Trucks

[Legbreaker]

There probably is but I don't really know it. Apparently his body was returned with an arrow to the back after he'd smuggled both his sons out of the country. One ended up in Australia and the other eventually made their way (via here) to America.
Another realitive was Queen Victorias' bridesmaid, but that's about all I know of them.
And my great great great (?) uncle was Sir Joseph Banks.
Plenty more in the mix there somewhere, and one day I'll ask my mother about them (she's been doing the family tree thing for the past 30 years give or take).

[Fusilier]

I have all of you beat.

I am related to Julius Ceasar, Cleopatra and Confucious.

Actually, from what we know of genetics, I'll wager that everyone on this board is too. Yes, I do know what that means... we're related to Legbreaker.

[Adm.Lee]

From gun trucks to gun-planes to genealogy... wherever shall we end up?

I have Scottish ancestors who have a castle! Well, three and a half walls, some windows and no roof. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbie_Tower Seems we got evicted 400 years ago for feuding with the neighbors. They were at the same battles as Targan's people, too.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Yes, I do know what that means... we're related to Legbreaker.

Obviously all inferior specimens of the genetic line....

[Ronin]

[Webstral]

On the somewhat related subject of gunboats, there would be a real need for gunboats on the Mississippi and all the waterways the government hoped to control. Every warlord with two rifles to rub together would want to collect tolls from river traffic passing through his area. One might even see enterprising marauders trying to block river traffic to make off with the goods. Therefore, there would be a real need for protection on the river barges themselves and on separate gunboats.

There would be a need for gunboats on the Great Lakes, too. Communities all along the perimeter of the Great Lakes would have an advantage over landlocked communities because the Great Lakes would foster interdependence. Small and not-so-small gunboats would be needed to keep the lakes free of warlords and enterprising marauders.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Webstral

On the somewhat related subject of gunboats, there would be a real need for gunboats on the Mississippi and all the waterways the government hoped to control.

Not to mention gunboats used to defend towns on the Pacific, Atlantic and Gulf Coasts from, well, actual pirates.

[Raellus]

Gunboats would become a fixture on most inland waterways and around coastal areas, especially in or near active combat zones.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Webstral

SNIP
There would be a need for gunboats on the Great Lakes, too. Communities all along the perimeter of the Great Lakes would have an advantage over landlocked communities because the Great Lakes would foster interdependence. Small and not-so-small gunboats would be needed to keep the lakes free of warlords and enterprising marauders.

The USS Niagara replica set sail in 1990 after being constructed by the Pennsylvania Historical
and Museum Commission in Erie, PA. The Niagara is a full-size, fully functional brig from the period of the War of 1812.

One wonders if more like it could be bashed together to guard the lake frontiers. "Gateway to the St. Lawrence Seaway", anyone?

[Adm.Lee]

Brig Niagara is really tiny! I was on board at the Tall Ships a year or two ago. You could fit the average PC group in among the crew, but not many beyond them.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Brig Niagara is really tiny! I was on board at the Tall Ships a year or two ago. You could fit the average PC group in among the crew, but not many beyond them.

Yeah, sailing ships are a lot smaller than people think. In a book I have on pirate ships, one of the largest covert is only about as long as two WWII PT boats.

[Raellus]

I was researching regular U.S. Army cargo trucks and I came across this in a Wikipedia article on the M35 2 1/2 ton truck. Apparently, other nations have used gun trucks since Vietnam, and very recently as well.

"The concept lived on well after the Vietnam War. El Salvador converted a number of M35 type vehicles into armored trucks in the 1980s, after successful conversions of Magirus Deutz trucks. These vehicles were nicknamed "Mazingers" in reference to the Japanese cartoon Mazinger Z.[8][9]

The Philippine Marine Corps also began converting M35 type trucks to an armored configuration by 2004. The first vehicle, dubbed "Talisman," utilized armor fabricated from derelict LVTP5 amphibious personnel carriers. Later gun trucks were built using more standard components and bear some resemblance to U.S. military vehicles of the Vietnam era.[10] The Philippine Marine Corps had also begun the creation of an anti-aircraft element by 2006, utilizing M35 based vehicles. Two types of vehicles have been seen so far. One utilizes the Mk 56 Mod 0 mount from the Patrol Boat, River, with two M2 Browning machine guns, while the other features another former naval mount with a single Oerlikon 20 mm cannon.[11]

Colombia maintains a fleet of REO M35 "Meteoro" armored trucks. These locally fabricated armored vehicles are used to guard tourist bus caravans as well as mobile checkpoints. Early vehicles were not fabricated to any particular standard and typically hosted three weapon stations that could be fitted with a 7.62 mm (.308-cal) or .50-caliber (12.7 mm) machine gun. The weapon stations may or may not have had a gun shield on any particular vehicle. More recent examples follow a pattern with the cab and fuel tanks armored and the drop side cargo bed converted to an armored box, atop which is a "gun tower," a set of four heavily armored weapon stations, one facing each direction. .50-caliber machine guns are mounted front and back, with 7.62 mm machine guns mounted to the sides. and mounting a machine gun. Losses in the Meteoro fleet instigated the purchase of the BTR-80 Caribe.[12]"

[DCausey]

"Mazinger" huh? That's cool! Mazinger Z is a giant robot fighting machine. Cool article, I'd like to see photos of those Philippines gun trucks.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by DCausey

"Mazinger" huh? That's cool! Mazinger Z is a giant robot fighting machine. Cool article, I'd like to see photos of those Philippines gun trucks.

The only one I can find so far:



Looks like a quad .30 mount of some kind? Interesting digi-cam as well.

Here's a link to a photo of the Colombian Army's "Meteoro" armored gun trucks, also based on the M35 series of 2.5 ton trucks.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/isbi_ar...in/photostream

[Raellus]

I also found this article on "narco tanks" (i.e. armored gun trucks) that at least one Mexican narco-gang was making.

http://insightcrime.org/insight-late...metric-weapons

This seems to reinforce how common armored gun trucks would be the world over in the T2K-verse.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Looks like a quad .30 mount of some kind?

Looks more like a single weapon to me with another on the other side of the vehicle.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Looks more like a single weapon to me with another on the other side of the vehicle.

I think you're right.

[ArmySGT.]

Well look at that 1919A4s still Soldiering on .

[DCausey]

Rae, thanks for the photo. That truck looks pretty sweet. I can totally see building a model of something like that.

[Webstral]

Cantonments with the ability to move these vehicles from one location to another will have a significant advantage over an enemy without gun trucks. As long as fuel and ammunition hold out, a gun truck with one or more machine guns can seriously affect a confrontation. I suspect many cantonment defense forces will become obsessed with keeping their gun trucks operable at any cost--once they get an idea of what two M60s or heavier weapons can accomplish against bandits (or the law). Marauders will be equally interested in fielding gun trucks, but a small and/or mobile group will have trouble supporting gun trucks. Hm. This dynamic may lead to lots of marauders evolving analogously into Black Barons or the Shoguns in that they exercise semi-governmental control over a swath of territory.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I was researching regular U.S. Army cargo trucks and I came across this in a Wikipedia article on the M35 2 1/2 ton truck. Apparently, other nations have used gun trucks since Vietnam, and very recently as well...

Gun trucks have been in use for longer than most people realize and I think this lack of recognition is mostly due to the lack of images available. For example, the French forces were using CCKW and later GMC trucks to carry various ordnance since WW2 and carrying over into the conflict in IndoChina

Model pics and history of 40mm Bofors gun truck
http://www.warwheels.net/40mmBoforsF...deleINDEX.html

French trucks in IndoChina
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?...d=78165&page=1

Other armoured trucks in IndoChina (nearly at the bottom of page, includes armoured Dodge WC62)
http://members.multimania.co.uk/Indo.../afvs.html#top

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Model pics and history of 40mm Bofors gun truck
http://www.warwheels.net/40mmBoforsF...deleINDEX.html

A lovely machine. It certainly would come in handy while digging enemy troops out of buildings and bunkers.

[HorseSoldier]

"The concept lived on well after the Vietnam War. El Salvador converted a number of M35 type vehicles into armored trucks in the 1980s, after successful conversions of Magirus Deutz trucks. These vehicles were nicknamed "Mazingers" in reference to the Japanese cartoon Mazinger Z.[8][9]

Colombia maintains a fleet of REO M35 "Meteoro" armored trucks. These locally fabricated armored vehicles are used to guard tourist bus caravans as well as mobile checkpoints.

I see fingerprints belonging to 7th SFG(A) all over this one.

They also helped export the idea of the Q Bus that the Selous Scouts used in Rhodesia to El Salvador during the war there.

[Webstral]

After re-writing the introduction for a piece on gun trucks, I realized that I'm going to have to rethink certain aspects of a lot of pieces. Some of the infantry brigades and divisions operating in CONUS are going to have to have some gun trucks added to their rosters. The tracked AFVs simply can't be sent running all over kingdom come. In Sixth US Army's AO, where some oil from Bakersfield is available, gun trucks probably will be relatively common as escorts. Colorado probably has a fair number of gun trucks running on oil out of Wyoming. I'll have to think about 104th ID, though. They have great distances to cover, but I'm iffy about the fuel.

[Webstral]

Last night, I started dusting off my work on gun trucks in northern New England. I did a lot of work before setting it aside. Now I'm having trouble decidig where the boundaries are. A simple write-up for the four organizations in northern New England using gun trucks seems too brief and too narrow. An in-depth history on northern New England through 4/01 seems too broad. Still thinking...

[Olefin]

Love this thread, full of all kinds of interesting information. The Kenya module I am working on will have several different versions of gun trucks, both on the enemy side (hello Somali Technicals) as well as on the good guys side (the British Lions unit will have several gun trucks that a WWII vet who was retired to Kenya came up with)

[Webstral]

The attached piece has been idling as I flesh out other stuff. I'm very much on the fence about whether this sort of thing is useful without a larger context. How much of a larger context is needed? Do players need to know about other armed bodies in northern New England for the organizations with gun trucks to be meaningful? Do refs need to know more about the organizations in question for the OOB to be useful? Is northern New England a meaningful subdivision, or should I be talking about all of New England?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I'm very much on the fence about whether this sort of thing is useful without a larger context. How much of a larger context is needed?

Well I don't know about "needed", Web, but I like reading the material you write so I'd like to place my vote for more context, please

[Ironside]

So would I, very much so.

[Tegyrius]

I summon this thread to arise from the grave!

Ahem.

(Further gun truck cross-discussion here and here.)

Courtesy of the US Army's Foreign Military Studies Office, here's an interesting summary of improvised armored fighting vehicles (IAFVs) in use among the Mexican drug cartels. Relevance to our interests should be obvious...

- C.