Where is the M88A1 in the game?

[Olefin]

Always wondered why the M88A1 isnt mentioned in the game. While it onlyh has an onboard 50 cal MG for weapons, it can carry anti-tank missiles, has a ton of engineering equipment on board that is tailor made for multiple scenarios in the game, can recover wrecked equipment and tanks and is about as dependable a vehicle as the military ever fielded.

And having one with you is about the best way to make sure that the other vehicles you have can be repaired when they break down.

And if you look at the scenarios I can literally see the Krakow government paying you a lot to buy that vehicle off of you or for the rental of its services.

[Raellus]

I agree. The M88 would be a fun atypical vehicle to campaign with. I think the developers ommitted it because it's not really a combat-oriented AFV and they were trying to save room in their rather thin vehicle guides for combat or cargo optimized vehicles.

[Tegyrius]

I always wanted to do an ARV/AEV supplement for 2013. Ah well.

- C.

[Panther Al]

Well, You do have the German ARV in the NATO book, so at least there is one out there.


And yes: I always tried to scam a way into getting one for those very reasons.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

I always wanted to do an ARV/AEV supplement for 2013. Ah well.

- C.

Well, at least there is the M88 in the 2013 rules...

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Well, You do have the German ARV in the NATO book, so at least there is one out there.

If we're talking 2.0/2.2, the M88A1 does appear in the ACVH, too. Page 39.

Originally Posted by Medic

Well, at least there is the M88 in the 2013 rules...

Yep. And I statted out two or three others in the Czech Republic vehicle sourcebook.

- C.

[Olefin]

I will check out the Czech guide - didnt realize it was in there.

I havent looked at the 2013 game - have to do that - we played the original version and to me that is the game.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

If we're talking 2.0/2.2, the M88A1 does appear in the ACVH, too. Page 39.



Yep. And I statted out two or three others in the Czech Republic vehicle sourcebook.

- C.

True enough.

But the Leo is *better* looking.

[Tegyrius]

What are the community's thoughts on PC groups having an armored recovery vehicle or combat engineer vehicle rather than a combat vehicle? I've always thought such an arrangement was more interesting than "oh, another team with an Abrams Giraffe" because it trades combat power for utility. At the same time, there's still enough armor on most of these designs to make them proof against small arms fire, if not light autocannon. Combine that with the capacity to pintle-mount anything up to a HMG/AGL/ATGM makes them able to function as rolling bunkers, so long as the crew doesn't get overconfident.

Opinions? Has anyone ever actually had one of these attached to a PC group? If so, what design was it and how'd it work out?

- C.

[Raellus]

I've often thought that an ARV of some sort would make for a really interesting PC vehicle, but my current campaign hasn't provided too many opportunities for my players to encounter one. I've toyed with the idea of starting up an Escape from Kalisz campaign where one of the PCs' vehicles is an ARV, most likely an M88 with some supplemental armor and an extra MG or two. I think it would be an interesting PC ride because, in addition to a decent mobility boost (over boots, at least), it would provide good protection from small arms fire and shrapnel, and it's M2HB would give the PCs good offensive capabilities against bunkers and light armor. At the same time, it's not going to give the group an overwhelming advantage over enemy forces, and the party is going to have to worry about fuel and maintenance. It's sort of a "tweener" vehicle- better than nothing but not as formidable as an Abrams or a Bradley or something along those lines. This, to me, would be more interesting to play with than an MBT or IFV.

[kcdusk]

Combat Engineer vehicles or extending through to cranes for example, should give PCs more ability to "rebuild" the world (ie fixing things). So i think these vehicles could re-focus the game away from combat and more into "moving forward".

Defending such a vehicle, or whatever project it was working on (such as a bridge or armour shop), should open up enough possibilities for action. Or sourcing building materials from nearby (or not so near by!) should provide little story arcs to base around PCs using CEVs.

I've never had PCs use them. But have considered having NPCs use them (ie PCs pass by them).

I hear what your saying about them being a "twiner" vehicle.

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I've often thought that an ARV of some sort would make for a really interesting PC vehicle, but my current campaign hasn't provided too many opportunities for my players to encounter one.

Which is okay with me. We're in a different situation there, and moving off the Queen would fundamentally change that game's flavor. Also, we don't really have the skill set to take full advantage of one.

At the same time, it's not going to give the group an overwhelming advantage over enemy forces, and the party is going to have to worry about fuel and maintenance. It's sort of a "tweener" vehicle- better than nothing but not as formidable as an Abrams or a Bradley or something along those lines. This, to me, would be more interesting to play with than an MBT or IFV.

That's a lot of my thinking, yeah. The limitations of the platform would keep the group from getting too aggressive, and they'd still have all the logistical headaches associated with a big thirsty tank engine. At the same time, it's more practical outside a fight than an M113A3 ACCV or the equivalent - which is really what we're talking about when we look at its combat capability.

Originally Posted by kcdusk

Combat Engineer vehicles or extending through to cranes for example, should give PCs more ability to "rebuild" the world (ie fixing things). So i think these vehicles could re-focus the game away from combat and more into "moving forward".

Defending such a vehicle, or whatever project it was working on (such as a bridge or armour shop), should open up enough possibilities for action. Or sourcing building materials from nearby (or not so near by!) should provide little story arcs to base around PCs using CEVs.

And that's the other half of their appeal for me. I like stories about putting (a little piece of) the world back together.

- C.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

An M88 would be an incredible starting vehicle for a party. There's enough room to live in the freaking thing, it's a rolling machine shop, can recover other armored vehicles, act as a pillbox (but never, ever pretend to be a tank!) - it is just such a cool ride!

[Targan]

*NOTE* I've merged the thread ARVs and CEVs into this thread.