Drones and UAVs in T2K

[Raellus]

When T2K was first released, UAVs were still nascent tech. I don't recall every seeing mention of drones/UAVs in any published T2k adventure modules or source-books.

AFAIK, the Israelis were pioneers (pun intended) in UAV tech and operational application. Their use of drones as decoys c. 1982 to trick Syrian SAM crews in the Bekaa Valley into targeting themselves for HARM strikes by turning on their radars was brilliant.

The USN used drones launched from their Wisconsin class battleships to act as unmanned artillery spotters during Desert Storm in '91.

So drones exist in the various T2k timelines, and would have seen battlefield use therein, but to what extent? Would any UAVs be left by mid-2000?

Today, all manner of UAVs- from Hellfire-carrying Predators to off-the-shelf quadcopters, have become a prominent feature of pretty much every conflict zone on the planet. The tech is not limited to national militaries. In fact, insurgent and terrorist groups have pioneering drone tactics on various third world battlefields for the last few years.

On a side note, it seems to me that drone detection and countermeasures are lagging behind drone tech and tactics.

In a brief T2030 campaign that I ran, small drones came into play. The PCs had a couple fixed wing UAVs, which they used to great effect for reconnaissance and battlefield surveillance. They are huge force multiplier when used against an adversary lacking the same capability. Unfortunately, the campaign ended before the player party encountered an enemy with drones of their own (plans for such an encounter were afoot).

Have drones/UAVs featured in your campaign? Tell us about it.

This is the place for drone discussion so have at it.

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[Ewan]

I reckon they would be attached to artillery units and possibly brigade or higher HQs especially after you start to lose the reconnaissance data from satellites.
Also depending on spare parts and maintenance I see them only used when really necessary and only when the data is worth the risk of losing them.
As for arming them probably not but you might see the odd field modification.
https://collection.sciencemuseumgrou...vehicle-with-o

[Olefin]

Definitely would still be drones around by mid-2000. There probably would have been a huge surge of production of them in 96-97, especially after attacks started on satellite recon systems and recon plane losses started to mount. Even the much less capable systems of the 90's would have been invaluable for artillery spotting and recon. And with all the planes and helos sitting around at various airfields that are down for lack of parts or fuel you could see drones being kept going using salvaged parts.

[swaghauler]

The following three types of recon drones are used by my players.

Parrot Jumping Drone: This 2-wheeled ground bot is capable of jumping up to 0.6m vertically and is controlled by an AP downloaded to a smartphone. It can move up to 50m from its controller and is controlled by a BlueTooth connection which can be jammed. It has a runtime of 20 minutes per charge and a maximum speed of 3m per second. Its digital camera has a 4GB storage and LEDs for lighting in dark environments. This commercially made toy is made of plastic and not very durable.
Cost: $99 vehicle, $99 AP (which works for multiple devices). Availability: C/C. Wt: 0.2kg. Bulk: 0.75

https://youtu.be/-_8MtJ6WujI

Recon ThrowBot: A much better tactical device than the Parrot, the ThrowBot is used by SWAT teams everywhere and would be available during the Twilight War. It is very quiet (20DcBl) and has a run-time of 1 hour. The hand-held controller has 3 channels (allowing for the use of 3 bots) and can connect digitally to most laptops or command stations. The robot has a built-in IR camera and will switch automatically based on the light available. The device can be thrown 36m horizontally, and 9m vertically and moves at up to 10m per second. It can clear a 4"/10cm obstacle on its own. It is also resistant to jamming (light ECM).
Cost: $5K bot, $2k Controller. Availability S/S (both bot and controller).
Weight: 0.54kg (bot), 0.4kg (controller). Bulk: 1.1 (bot), 2 (controller).

https://youtu.be/U9DR4OpSKvY

FQM-151 Raven man-portable UAV: This man-portable UAV is thrown into the air to get it flying and can be caught or just allowed to crash to land. It can be disassembled and placed into a backpack. The first generation (listed here) has a fixed camera while later versions had a camera in a rotating mount. It can be flown from a lap-top controller or preprogrammed to fly a GPS-waypoints path. It is resistant to moderate ECM and possesses both IR and daylight digital imaging to X25 power. The UAV has a flight endurance of 1 hour, a 300m maximum altitude, and a flight speed of 20m per second.
Cost: UAV $40K, Controller $6K. Avaliabiliy: R/R (both). Weight: 4kg (UAV), 1kg (Controller). Bulk (stored): 12 (uav & controller).

https://youtu.be/8RMB9WMdG6g

As always, use what you want and ignore the rest...

Swag

[swaghauler]

Boeing's ScanEagle would also be available as the prototypes were flying in the mid-'90s even though the Navy didn't officially adopt it until the year 2002.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I think the biggest issue is not whether drone technology was available (it was, for example, the Ryan Firebee target drone was in service in 1952) but if the military recognizes the potential that drone tech represents.

[Vespers War]

Lightning Bugs would probably return to use. Ryan Firebees were modified and used in the 60s and 70s with cameras to provide aerial recon, with Lightning Bug being their designation. In the late 90s, Teledyne Ryan converted a pair of Firebees to an updated Lightning Bug standard providing real-time imagery for Green Flag exercises in Nevada. Firebees are still in use today, so they'd be available for conversion.

Predator entered service in 1995, so the early RQ (unarmed) versions of it would likely exist in small numbers in the Twilight era. The CIA would have its predecessor, the GNAT 750.

The RQ-2 Pioneer drones launched from Iowa-class battleships during the Gulf War remained in service until 2007, so they'd still be around.

The FQM-151 Pointer is the "first generation Raven" that swaghauler mentioned in his Raven entry. They were first acquired in 1990 and still in use in the early 2000s (not sure if they're all retired yet). It's a 9 pound drone with an hour of flight time and a fixed-forward camera.

Slightly larger is the BQM-147 Exdrone (Expendable Drone). It served in Desert Storm and is still in use. It's around 90 pounds with 2.5 hours of endurance.

S-TEC (now DRS Unmanned Systems) started building their Sentry in the mid-80s. It's a 240 pound drone with 8 hours of endurance and a 60 pound payload.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Carrier Pigeons

I would think that, at least for the SAR role, carrier pigeons would be replaced by UAVs, even in the T2K 2.2 timeline. A lot of the larger UAVs would have been shot down, but small reconnaissance drones would have survived into the 2000s.

[Ursus Maior]

Well, depending when your timeline deviates (1995 to 1997), UAVs were not in widespread use with most militaries. Besides target drones and artillery drones, which both ran pre-programed courses, there was basically just the RQ-2 Pioneer and the RQ-1 Predator (in order of appearance). The Russians/Soviets didn't even have that and use of these UAVs was basically limited to very few USAF squadrons.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Well, depending when your timeline deviates (1995 to 1997), UAVs were not in widespread use with most militaries. Besides target drones and artillery drones, which both ran pre-programed courses, there was basically just the RQ-2 Pioneer and the RQ-1 Predator (in order of appearance). The Russians/Soviets didn't even have that and use of these UAVs was basically limited to very few USAF squadrons.

There were more UAV's out there than you think - Israel had the IAI Scout and the Tadiran Mastiff. And the US was using drones for recon as early as the Vietnam War - and they werent target or artillery drones.

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Olefin

There were more UAV's out there than you think - Israel had the IAI Scout and the Tadiran Mastiff. And the US was using drones for recon as early as the Vietnam War - and they werent target or artillery drones.

Were there more than I mentioned? Yes. Were they in widespread use? No, certainly not. You named the two prominent IDF examples, which played a role from the early 80s onwards. Yes, the Tadiran Mastiff was first flown in 1973, but that's not the same as an operational UAV that was fulfilling a defined role within the IDF.

With respect to the US: Were there non-artillery UAV in service with US armed forces before the RQ-1B predator? Certainly. Were they part of a unified strategy or available to battlefield commanders? Not so much. Yes, there were things like the QH-50 DASH, which aimed at naval ASW, but it performed significantly worse than contemporary helicopters and offered little in terms what we today think of as strength of UAVs, e. g. data links to other weapon systems of the (literal) mother ship, high endurance or range.

The DASH, while later equipped with TV-cameras, initially was a simpe radio controlled helicopter with a range of 71 nm and a cruising speed of just over 40 nm, that was used to lob two anemic Mk. 44 torpedoes into the vicinity of a detected 1960s submarine. While later a single Mk. 46 torpedo could be carried, its endurance of just one hour and missing sensors meant that it was nothing more than an instrument to bring a weapon into an area. Helicopters and ASROC missiles did and do the same. Other US drones before the RQ-2 were usually artillery drones or other reconnaissance drones, e. g. the Ryan Firebee or the D-21, which was a strategic recon drone and did not offer its capabilities to battlefield commanders. Also, drones of this age were not really featuring hardened electronics, so their use in post-nuclear warfare is uncertain.

Nothing of this arsenal would offer capabilities for SAR (i. e. 'search and rescue') to commanders in a T2K universe. Additionally, what SAR roles do we see in T2K at all? There are hardly pilots downed in that setting since airplanes are almost extinct and coordinated military actions are pretty much non-existent. So, what "small reconnaissance drones" would exist and for what purpose and who would (be able to) use them.

[Vespers War]

The RQ-2 (which entered service 9 years before the RQ-1) was common enough that during the first Gulf War at least one was in the air for the entirety of the war. It was originally a gunnery spotter, but evolved into reconnaissance and surveillance roles. With its IR camera it was used to patrol the border to locate troop concentrations, and it also collected map data for Tomahawks to use.

On the smaller end of Desert Storm-era drones were the Exdrone (now BQM-147 Dragon) and the FQM-151 Pointer, which was very short-ranged but also easily man-portable at just 9 pounds of weight. The Pointer would continue to see use up through the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

By the mid-90s, there were the handful of RQ-5 Hunters and the introduction of the Predator. 1998 saw the RQ-4 Global Hawk enter service, selected over the RQ-3 Dark Star because range and payload were picked over stealth.

For non-American drones, I know of a pair that were used in the first Gulf War - Canada's Canadair CL-89 (used as the Midge by the British) and France's Altec MART.

[LoneCollector1987]

We now see how drone warfare has changed the face of warfare.

Could drone warfare also be possible in the Twilight 2000 timeline?

By 1995 we had Linux, Apple and Windows PC, the first 64 bit chips were produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...0%E2%80%931999

So, would it be possible for some to even envision drone warfare and how would it evolve, till the EMP would shut them down?

And would a comeback later possible?

We also had the TOW and HOT missiles among others, so some drone control was already there.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

My father was stationed at White Sands, New Mexico from the mid to late 1950's as an Army Photographer and he remembers seeing and taking pictures of the drones they had back then, many were top secret at the time (he got his top secret clearance at the age of 17 when he joined up).

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987

We now see how drone warfare has changed the face of warfare.

Could drone warfare also be possible in the Twilight 2000 timeline?

So, would it be possible for some to even envision drone warfare and how would it evolve, till the EMP would shut them down?

And would a comeback later possible?

As we know it today, or even a couple of years ago, probably not. As of 1997, IRL, the technology wasn't nearly as mature as it was at the start of the Ukraine War in 2022. Some modern combat drones use cellular phone networks and wifi for navigation and control- although that tech existed in 1997, networks were much, much smaller. Civilian drones weren't really a thing (unless you include RC aircraft). FPV control was just barely starting to move beyond science fiction.

That said, I don't see why a lot of mid-1990s drone technology wouldn't still work. Radio control would still be possible. Military radio equipment is usually pretty well shielded against EMP. Reconnaissance drones could be programmed to follow a pre-determined flightpath.

Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987

We also had the TOW and HOT missiles among others, so some drone control was already there.

As in wire-guided drones? IIRC, both Russian and Ukrainian forces have used wire-guided drones in combat, but they aren't the preferred type. Wire-guidance certainly circumvents jamming, but such a control arrangement also severely limits the range of the drone, as it is essentially tethered to the operator's command unit by a length of copper wire. Also, the more strung-out the wire, the greater the chance it has to get snagged on things like trees, poles, buildings, etc. Once the wire is severed, the drone is essentially deaf, dumb, and blind. It probably crashes and, even if recovered, spare parts for repairs would be very scarce.

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[Raellus]

This topic came up in another T2k discussion venue. A user encountered a Soviet drone in a Cold War-themed computer game (WARNO) that I'd never seen before. Another user ID'ed it as the Yakolev Pchela. Naturally, US drones are much more well known in the West, but Soviet drones could make good plot devices in T2k campaigns. So, here are a couple of Cold War-era Soviet drones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...e_Soviet_Union

Soviet drones have been modded to act as ad hoc cruise missiles.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/he...t-like-ukraine

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[ToughOmbres]

Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987

We now see how drone warfare has changed the face of warfare.

Could drone warfare also be possible in the Twilight 2000 timeline?

By 1995 we had Linux, Apple and Windows PC, the first 64 bit chips were produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...0%E2%80%931999

So, would it be possible for some to even envision drone warfare and how would it evolve, till the EMP would shut them down?

And would a comeback later possible?

We also had the TOW and HOT missiles among others, so some drone control was already there.

I could envision the same kind of drones used for spotting/Artillery observation such as those used in the First Gulf War-large, relatively clunky and were famously caught in a net when their mission was over.
By the time of the Twilight War, the drones might be a little smaller but still used for observation and spotting primarily. Then following the widespread use of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons they would become progressively rarer.