Twilight 2013

[Frank Frey]

Greetings,

CdNWolf asked what I thought of the latest iteration of T2K from Studio 93. Well I haven't formed an opinion of it yet. I just got the PDF's in a bundle deal from DrivethruRPG yesterday and haven't had much time to actually sit down and read through it. I'd like to do that because I figure I owe it to both you guys here as well as the game designers to give as much of an informed opinion as I can.
One more thing. To clear up any confusion, I was a freelancer for GDW. I didn't work in the main office and I was not one of the games original designers. I designed and wrote modules for them but the credit for the creation of the world itself goes squarely to Marc, Frank, and Loren. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Out Here,
Frank Frey

[kota1342000]

LMAO
...That may be Frank, but great modules! The RDF sourcebook saved a lot of us a huge amount of work, and I SCARED THE HELL out of a player group with Black Madonna. Quite unexpected Id have to say, but it really sticks out in my mind. Thanks much!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Having read a friend's copy, I found the timeline to be somewhat silly and despite any good to be had from the rules, I just can't picture it as being Twilight:2000.

[Jason]

The T:2013 timeline is the weakest part of the game. This is fine with me, as I often go off-canon anyway. (Less NA in T2K, more NA in T:2013)

As far as rules go, T:2013 is a very tight, accurate rule-set that I would use for any modern military game. The character creation and development process and combat rules both stand out to me as the best I have ever played. Once I became familiar with the rules, the combat sequences in T:2013 played out in a smooth realistic manner in regards to physics and psychology. In addition, every combat ended up having at least one of those cool little dramas that are so memorable.

I love T2k, and nothing will ever replace the feeling of this wonderful rpg, but as far as solid rules are concerned, T:2013 is top. I wish I had more time to play either of these games.

[kota1342000]

I agree the history is a little weak, but in general...wellll...not too bad, though I think my hang up is the complete dissolution of the US goverment. The variation on the "Good luck, youre on your own" is a little repugnant to me as it seems as the goverment just completely gave up. But maybe that's the reaction that was being looked for too.
Otherwise, Im damn impressed, and of course Im very biased; I didnt start on D&D, I started on T2K and anyone helping to keep the genre alive is going to get credit from me.

[kato13]

I like T2013 rules. Not enough to replace my custom built system but certainly enough to lift large portions. I still may build an online version of their character creation system as it really is a serious improvement over previous T2k versions (IMO) and would be a good reuse of some code I already built.

[Cdnwolf]

I like the fact you can set the game up fast using only Stage One rules and starting playing right away.

The background is the weakest part... but I am right now running my campaign using Twilight background... just changing the dates a bit...

Escape from Kalisz TWL2013 style is a real eye-opener...

[Cdnwolf]

My Twl2013 special ops team is tracking down a psychotic army major who goes by the name of Po... retracing all his previous steps.

[sglancy12]

Originally Posted by kota1342000

The variation on the "Good luck, youre on your own" is a little repugnant to me as it seems as the goverment just completely gave up.

Yeah... I gotta say that was pretty much my reaction when the audio recording teaser became available. The attitude seemed a lot like "Since we've failed at everything we've done for the last few years I guess it's Miller Time. See ya!"

A total abdication of responsibility. Like the Captain resigning his command after hitting the iceberg and then having the gall to act like he's doing us a favor on the grounds that he will only make it worse. Sounds like he just doesn't want to go down with the ship to me. If I was played that message at the beginning of the campaign I would make it my life's work to find that cowardly bastard and shoot his kneecaps off for shirking his duties and responsibilities.

Hell, it's worse that just resigning. He's scuttling the ship before all the lifeboats are away. And to no real purpose that I can discern.

I myself haven't picked up the main book, but I am heartened to hear so many people say how much they like the rules. I was never a big fan or the ver. 2.2. rules and I really didn't like the ver.1 rules at all.

Nevertheless, what little I've read of the history makes my eyes bleed. I read a review somewhere that said (essentially) Twilight 2000 felt like it was written by guys who studied history, political science and ROTC in college. Twilight 2013 reads like it was written by guys who studied history by reading role-playing games.

What I've read, bears that impression out.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

[Frank Frey]

Originally Posted by sglancy12

didn't like the ver.1 rules at all.

Nevertheless, what little I've read of the history makes my eyes bleed. I read a review somewhere that said (essentially) Twilight 2000 felt like it was written by guys who studied history, political science and ROTC in college. Twilight 2013 reads like it was written by guys who studied history by reading role-playing games.

What I've read, bears that impression out.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

I'm with Scott on this one. That's my overall impression.

[Legbreaker]

Ditto.

I haven't read the 2013 rules but I definitely got the same feel from the background info. Both V1.0 and V2.0/2.2 histories were believable while 2013 just seems cobbled together.

[leonpoi]

but how important is the setting really? I think the rule-set could be used in a tw2k setting easily except a lot of the fancy equipment would not exist, which seems a shame.

I personally liked the rule system from a theoretical point of view but shied away from it because it had too many modifiers and rules (and I play harnmaster so I can handle rules and systems). I've grabbed a few ideas and house-ruled them back into my 2.2 rules. Maybe with more practice it would work out but I didn't give it the chance.

one thing I loved about it was the differentiation between penalties to hit due to visual range and gun effective range.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by leonpoi

but how important is the setting really?

Well that all depends on what you want.
If you're just after some rules, I'm sure the 2013 rules supply all the 'crunch' anyone could want. If you want a decent background, you know, the thing that actually makes the entire gameworld, the part of the game that makes you want to play in the gameworld, well... it isn't Twilight: 2000 despite the advertising.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by leonpoi

I personally liked the rule system from a theoretical point of view but shied away from it because it had too many modifiers and rules (and I play harnmaster so I can handle rules and systems). I've grabbed a few ideas and house-ruled them back into my 2.2 rules. Maybe with more practice it would work out but I didn't give it the chance.

You play Harnmaster! Bless you my son! Have you read my post in the Twilight Nightmares thread about the Harnmaster influences in my T2K campaign?

And please tell me you've been to www.warflail.com and grabbed yourself Bill Gant's Gunmaster rules for Harnmaster.

[leonpoi]

Originally Posted by Targan

You play Harnmaster! Bless you my son! Have you read my post in the Twilight Nightmares thread about the Harnmaster influences in my T2K campaign?

And please tell me you've been to www.warflail.com and grabbed yourself Bill Gant's Gunmaster rules for Harnmaster.

I think warflail has been one of the greatest resources for my game, but mostly for HMA. I've certainly tried Gunmaster, and there was so much temptation to use it because if would provide a synergy of rules with our fantasy game and because there is a lot to like about it, but in the end we've stuck with our 2.2 game (house rules of course). What can I say, we were finding that our games advanced at a perfect pace and we were a bit worried about slowing it down. In harn, combat is less common than our tw2k games, and it seemed fitting that 1/2 an hour should be diverted to a single fight in a dark alley. We came to harn late (less than a year ago) so I think our situation is the reverse to yours, Targan.

I have read your nightmares post. Very interesting, but I've never owned that book. Horror for us was always predictably of the fighting in a contaminated zone style. We've only got most of the source books recently as pdfs from my favourite online store, so I've never even used Black Madonna!