Dead Games Society

[Adm.Lee]

At Con on the Cob this weekend, I met one of the members of the Dead Game Society. He had been playing or running games of 1st edition AD&D, Top Secret, Boot Hill, Gangbusters, and other "old school" '80's-era RPGs. The group does just that, play old games at conventions, rather than the newer stuff. I had a ball in a 2-person game of Top Secret, on the run through 1953 East Berlin.

This sounded like something I could get behind, and I'm feeling inspired to join them and pen some T2k one-shots for use at conventions near me. One of the suggestions was 1961 Cuba, which could be a good spot for a raid/sabotage operation.

www.dgsociety.com is their forum.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

At Con on the Cob this weekend, I met one of the members of the Dead Game Society. He had been playing or running games of 1st edition AD&D, Top Secret, Boot Hill, Gangbusters, and other "old school" '80's-era RPGs. The group does just that, play old games at conventions, rather than the newer stuff. I had a ball in a 2-person game of Top Secret, on the run through 1953 East Berlin.

This sounded like something I could get behind, and I'm feeling inspired to join them and pen some T2k one-shots for use at conventions near me. One of the suggestions was 1961 Cuba, which could be a good spot for a raid/sabotage operation.

www.dgsociety.com is their forum.

Admiral,

That would be fantastic! Would you be using v2.2 or going really old school with T2K v1?

Within the last 5-6 years I've run Gamma World (1st ed.), Morrow Project 3rd ed. (Liberation at Riverton, Final Watch), Boot Hill (1st ed.), Twilight 2000 (v2.2), Call of Cthulhu (5th ed.), Classic Traveller (The Chamax Plague). Games I've recently tried to get going but not quite succeeded (yet) include Aftermath! (Empire of Karo), The Price of Freedom (The PATH of Freedom) and Delta Force (starting soon, probably Terror at Sea). Not all of these are original edition but it's the thought that counts! I'm not currently running 1st ed. AD&D but I am running Hackmaster 4th edition (Quest For the Unknown and Little Keep on the Borderlands), which is basically AD&D 1st ed. on steroids.

These have generally been 1-shot games (with the exception of my long-running T2K and Morrow Project campaigns). Come to think of it, most of these I never got a chance to run or play back when I was a serious gamer in high school even though I wanted to. (The exceptions being GW, T2K and pre-everything Traveller.)

Christ, maybe that's my version of a mid-life crisis... instead of trying to capture my lost youth with an impulse-bought sports car or Harley and a trading my wife for a younger model (so to speak) I'm instead doing it via gaming. Just for fun I pulled out Squad Leader (not ASL) and enjoyed a play-through of "Buchholz Station" solo for some reason, now I know why! (I already have a younger wife who has promised to buy me a motorcycle as soon as we can afford it so I have that angle well-covered.)

Tony

[Legbreaker]

I am currently running a 1st ed AD&D game with the next session scheduled for tomorrow night. Only three players, but still plenty of fun - shame I'm having to GM rather than play.
Tony, I already have the motorbike.
Still working on the young trophy wife though.

[kcdusk]

+1 Top Secret. I cannot remember if the game itself, the setting, or my cousin who ref'd the game was the reason it was so much fun. Absolutely loved playing TS. Wish i had a copy.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

+1 Top Secret. I cannot remember if the game itself, the setting, or my cousin who ref'd the game was the reason it was so much fun. Absolutely loved playing TS. Wish i had a copy.

KC,

Dude, how could I miss TS? But I've not run one lately so that doesn't really count, but I could...

So if I ever start a TS PBEM or PbP game (I was thinking of OP: RAPIDSTRIKE or... Sprechenhaltestelle(!)) I'll let you know.

Tony

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

+1 Top Secret. I cannot remember if the game itself, the setting, or my cousin who ref'd the game was the reason it was so much fun. Absolutely loved playing TS. Wish i had a copy.

KC,

Dude, how could I miss TS? But I've not run one lately so that doesn't really count, but I could...

So if I ever start a TS PBEM or PbP game (I was thinking of OP: RAPIDSTRIKE or... Sprechenhaltestelle(!)) I'll let you know.

Leg,

You know, it's got to be worth double points running a "Dead Game" if at least some of the players not only didn't play it back in the old days but weren't even born in its heyday!

Speaking of 1st ed. AD&D, I have a regular gaming group (with some youngsters) that are the usual victims of my "retro game" nights. I found a hard copy of "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" and may just inflict it on them...

As for a bike, this would be one one I'd want:



Although, after playing T2K lately an old-style BMW (or Ural) with sidecar would be cool:



Tony

[Mahatatain]

I think that you can still buy second hand copies of Top Secret from the likes of Amazon and ebay.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by helbent4

You know, it's got to be worth double points running a "Dead Game" if at least some of the players not only didn't play it back in the old days but weren't even born in its heyday!

Two of my players weren't even born until the 90's.
2nd ed was published when exactly?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Tony, I already have the motorbike.
Still working on the young trophy wife though.

I had no idea you were a rider Leg. What do you ride? I have an early 1990s Kawasaki GPZ 900 (Mad Max-style matt black).

Oh, and my fiance is 7 years younger than me

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Two of my players weren't even born until the 90's.
2nd ed was published when exactly?

Leg,

T2K was published in 1993, so it depends on what year!

Mahatatain,

Also, game stores that will take in trade-ins or second-hand material. I picked up a boxed TS (with about 4 copies each of Rapidstrike and Sprechenhaltestelle in the box) along with a boxed set of Chivalry and Sorcery. All in so-so condition, but who cares! Not to mention I also scored SPI's magazine games including "Berlin '85, Enemy at the Gates" and "Patton's 3rd Army".

Tony

[Legbreaker]

1st Ed AD&D Tony, first published way back in 1978 I think.
Just a little 250 Targan, nothing special. One day the fairy godmother will come and it will grow up into a real bike, you know, about a 1000cc or thereabout.
:P

[boogiedowndonovan]

speaking of dead games, anyone out there play the WWII rpg Behind Enemy Lines?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

speaking of dead games, anyone out there play the WWII rpg Behind Enemy Lines?

Now thats an oldie but goldie. Still pull it out and run a game every so often!

[Adm.Lee]

Speaking of players younger than the game, my 12-year old son was the other guy in the Top Secret game at the Con. 1953 Berlin meant nothing to him, the Cold War is something they might not cover in social-studies class. I have hooked him on D&D, versions 2, 3.5, and 4. The good stuff comes later....

I'm torn between editions. As a GM, rules-wise, it would likely be v2.2. The game I played at Origins this year was v1, and that was fun, too. Just to enhance the "old-school" feel might be the reason to run v1, it's had more exposure. The v1 initiative/coolness system seems hard to explain to a convention crowd, though.

Aside: After years of playing D&D 3.5, it's hard to believe the small size of the rulebooks in T2k and Traveller! I just glanced thru the v1 Player's book-- 24 pages!! Really!?

Anyway, I have an outline in my head for using canon Krakow, 2000, for a setting, and just running a small op(s) from there. The guy I played TS with suggested 1961 Bay of Pigs would be a neat setting, too, and I agree with him. That would more likely be v2.2-- I've long thought that would be a good fit for an Top Secret-like game.

I think there was a recent "Knights of the Dinner Table" or "Dork Tower" cartoon when someone asked when the Golden Age of Gaming was. "That's easy," is the reply. "It's when I was twelve!" Make it between 14-26, and I agree.

Good-o on Squad Leader, I kept all mine even after selling off ASL.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Aside: After years of playing D&D 3.5, it's hard to believe the small size of the rulebooks in T2k and Traveller! I just glanced thru the v1 Player's book-- 24 pages!! Really!?

Try Macho Women with Guns. Eight pages in total including two pages of stats for the enemy creatures.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Speaking of players younger than the game, my 12-year old son was the other guy in the Top Secret game at the Con. 1953 Berlin meant nothing to him, the Cold War is something they might not cover in social-studies class. I have hooked him on D&D, versions 2, 3.5, and 4. The good stuff comes later....

Good-o on Squad Leader, I kept all mine even after selling off ASL.

Lee,

Hmm, do your pre-teen kids count in the same way? It's not like they're going to know about the Cold War even in school, like you say! Still, maybe you get triple points for indoctrinating a new generation!

My wife jokes that when we have kids they could be third generation gamers. After getting out of the Van Doos/Airborne in the 70's my father-in-law went back to school (after stints working for corrections and as a parole officer up North, and earning his high school diploma) to study for his Doctorate in Criminology. While he was at SFU in the 90's he was part of the gaming club there and played AD&D, so there's definitely a generational connection there.

(Funny story, my father-in-law in effect interrogated me the first time we met, and he told me how he was going to do it beforehand. It didn't involve water-boarding or a polygraph.)

Tony

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Aside: After years of playing D&D 3.5, it's hard to believe the small size of the rulebooks in T2k and Traveller! I just glanced thru the v1 Player's book-- 24 pages!! Really!?

Similar in size to Metamorphosis Alpha, the first RPG I ever played, and the predecessor to Gamma World.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by helbent4

It's not like they're going to know about the Cold War even in school, like you say! Still, maybe you get triple points for indoctrinating a new generation!

No, I shouldn't have expected him to know the history, but even when I was twelve, I knew the Soviets were scary guys. That's all gone, and it was a small shock to confront that.

My wife (also a gamer) and I would kid that our kids would be popular jocks, and horribly embarrassed by their geek parents. So far, not so, but only the oldest one is interested in games. And he's more interested in D&D and Star Wars RPGs (like Mom) than dad's historical wargames or tactical stuff. The younger one is rejecting all kinds of games, so far.

RE: size of the rulebooks. I know there are smaller books out there, but in my memory, the T2k v.1 books seemed bigger. Again, it was a small shock to see it in print.

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Now thats an oldie but goldie. Still pull it out and run a game every so often!

sadly, I never played Behind Enemy Lines, I remember I asked for for my birthday. I was probably 13 or 14 and heavy into AD&D, I saw it at the game store. So my mom and dad buy it for me, I open up the box and it is missing one of the rulebooks. So I returned it and picked up Car Wars instead. fun times!

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

sadly, I never played Behind Enemy Lines, I remember I asked for for my birthday. I was probably 13 or 14 and heavy into AD&D, I saw it at the game store. So my mom and dad buy it for me, I open up the box and it is missing one of the rulebooks. So I returned it and picked up Car Wars instead. fun times!

One of the first decent military RPGs, and the character gen shows it!

The Companions produced the basic rule books; the Squad Leader's Pocket Guide; the Platoon Leader's Pocket Guide; The British in WWII Sourcebook; Until Relieved adventure book; The Long Patrol adventure book and then BEL was purchased by FASA who released British Commandos adventure and The Guns of Navarone adventure.

I've picked up all except the Long Patrol and, of the lot, the two FASA books are probably the worst! LOL.

[JimmyRay73]

"Boot Hill" you say? Heh, I have fond memories of playing a few sessions of that with old friends, run by a guy that passed away about 12 years ago. The skill rules were kludge but the quick-draw was amusing. Plus I had possibly the best character name and I cadged it from a road sign on I-75 south of Toledo, Ohio. I started thinking up the background for Lucky Haskins shortly after passing the sign that said "Luckey, Haskins. Next Exit"

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by JimmyRay73

"Boot Hill" you say? Heh, I have fond memories of playing a few sessions of that with old friends, run by a guy that passed away about 12 years ago. The skill rules were kludge but the quick-draw was amusing. Plus I had possibly the best character name and I cadged it from a road sign on I-75 south of Toledo, Ohio. I started thinking up the background for Lucky Haskins shortly after passing the sign that said "Luckey, Haskins. Next Exit"

Jimmy Ray,

Boot Hill, a classic! I started running Lost Conquistador Mine last year but it never got anywhere past the first session or so.

Tony

[HorseSoldier]

Was it Boot Hill and Gamma World that had conversion rules in the first edition AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide? Seriously old school stuff there.

Hmm, do your pre-teen kids count in the same way? It's not like they're going to know about the Cold War even in school, like you say! Still, maybe you get triple points for indoctrinating a new generation!

Even my 18-21 ish Joes in my platoon don't really know about the Cold War, not in a way to understand what it was really like to live during it. "Soviets" are as been there/done that/beaten as "Nazis" in their world. Maybe less so, since there's no Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers or endless documentary footage about bullets actually flying and all.

[/Cranky Old Bastard Mode]

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Was it Boot Hill and Gamma World that had conversion rules in the first edition AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide? Seriously old school stuff there.



Even my 18-21 ish Joes in my platoon don't really know about the Cold War, not in a way to understand what it was really like to live during it. "Soviets" are as been there/done that/beaten as "Nazis" in their world. Maybe less so, since there's no Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers or endless documentary footage about bullets actually flying and all.

[/Cranky Old Bastard Mode]

HS,

Those were the ones: 1st ed. Gamma World and 1st ed. Boot Hill had conversion rules in the DMG. Come to think of it, I ran PBeMs for both games and also a sit-down game for GW 1st ed within the last 10 years.

Hey, we can always educate the younger generation. I also see a certain kind of dismissiveness of the WP in T2K. I would imagine younger players see them as a defeated enemy without the at least grudging respect accorded fallen foes like the Nazis, Germans, Japanese, even Chinese (in Korea). Older players probably "get" the Cold War but as well there's a certain degree of "sure, we woulda whupped 'em, no doubt!" as part and parcel of NATO's do-or-die role and revelations that have come out after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Interestingly enough, in the timeline of T2K, the WP has done much better than NATO in practically all theatres (while fighting on several fronts at once). Enough to call into question or even shatter the belief of NATO's ultimate superiourity on the battlefield.

Tony

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by helbent4

I also see a certain kind of dismissiveness of the WP in T2K.

I strongly agree with that statement. Although we know IRL that the Pact may not have performed as well as feared, the presumption of the game and the timeline is that they were more than competent, and serious opponents.
Anyone writing anything for T2K not presuming this is doing themselves, and the game, a grave disservice.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Was it Boot Hill and Gamma World that had conversion rules in the first edition AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide? Seriously old school stuff there.



Even my 18-21 ish Joes in my platoon don't really know about the Cold War, not in a way to understand what it was really like to live during it. "Soviets" are as been there/done that/beaten as "Nazis" in their world. Maybe less so, since there's no Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers or endless documentary footage about bullets actually flying and all.

[/Cranky Old Bastard Mode]

I know what you mean, I run into that where "I was born in 1988/1991" a lot. It sure makes one feel a bit old at times. Tell you the truth to add to it, my eye doctor prescribed bifocals for me this year as well.

Chuck

[Adm.Lee]

I'm going through with my earlier threat, and I will be running a Merc:2000 session at Con on the Cob next weekend.

Rules will be 2.2, with a house rule or two, if I can remember them.

Setting will be the Caribbean, much like the Merc game I ran in the '90s. I have dug up some of the old character sheets from those players, since I find making pre-gens to be drudgery.

If this goes well, I hope to ride the enthusiasm to Origins and Ancon next year.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I'm going through with my earlier threat, and I will be running a Merc:2000 session at Con on the Cob next weekend.

Rules will be 2.2, with a house rule or two, if I can remember them.

Setting will be the Caribbean, much like the Merc game I ran in the '90s. I have dug up some of the old character sheets from those players, since I find making pre-gens to be drudgery.

If this goes well, I hope to ride the enthusiasm to Origins and Ancon next year.

Awesome! Let us know how it goes! I'm probably going to Origins again next year, if you run a game, I'm in!

[Cdnwolf]

Speaking of SL and ASL ..... found this little gem that I am trying to convert to TW2000

http://www.vassalengine.org/