Huachuca Experiment

[Webstral]

Today, I finally moved some of the concrete slabs in my back yard and started planting. I gave up on trying the full method in my favorite source book and just did a “poor man’s” version. Instead of completely turning over the soil in a 5x20 bed, I turned over the soil in a 6x6 exposed area. Instead of digging out a first 12” layer, then softening a lower 12” layer with a D-handled garden fork (?) designed for this purpose, I only went 12” deep and shifted all the soil across the surface of the plot. I did not have any compost, so I didn’t add any. I didn’t companion plant. The only thing I put into the ground was sunflower seeds. I may add some crimson clover, which will be good ground cover and add nitrogen. This is similar to what many of the survivors in SAMAD will be doing during their first planting. Proper tools will be short, as will be instructors. Thank God for literacy. It will be interesting to see how this all works out.

If I can make the time, I’ll expose another patch of soil and plant corn, beans, and pumpkins. A neighbor planted her own potatoes for Thanksgiving and reported that they were excellent. One advantage I have over many of the folks trying to grow their own food in SAMAD is that I’m starting with good soil. Weeds used to grow prolifically in my back yard. The soil is brown and relatively loose. In many parts of SAMAD, the new gardeners will have to loosen the soil by watering it intensively, then waiting two days before trying to start turning it over and breaking it up.

[Webstral]

I'm going to have a go at garlic, too. I thoroughly enjoyed the results of my first attempt at back yard garlic. The garlic was so incredibly flavorful that a single clove of backyard garlic was as potent as a half-dozen store-bought cloves. The complexity of the back yard garlic flavor compared to store-bought variety was beyond comparison.

[Raellus]

Assuming your profile tags are current, the climate in which you are conducting your experiment is both cooler and wetter, on average, than the climate in most of southern Arizona. I know that you know this. I just what to reiterate how impractical most forms of agriculture are here without extensive irregation, and that means importing significant amounts of water and transporting it over long distances. I know that you have considered this but it bears repeating simply for its value as an adventure/plot hook. Controlling access to water for irregation will be crucial for any major polity hoping to exist in the region. Even with alternative and/or "taditional" forms of agriculture, irrigation will be necessary to supplement the minimal precipitation and the nearly non-existent surface water sources here in Southern Arizona.

[Cdnwolf]

Must be nice to be able to start planting early... have to wait until May 24 before its safe for me to start gardening. I love growing herbs and spices and when the world comes to an end they would grow in value.

[Targan]

How deep do you have to go in southern Arizona before you hit the water table? Is drilling deep wells a practical option or is the water just too deep/non-existant?

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Targan

How deep do you have to go in southern Arizona before you hit the water table? Is drilling deep wells a practical option or is the water just too deep/non-existant?

It depends on the exact location but wells are a practical option, for some water needs. My house is one of five on a well which, coincidently, was on the fritz this afternoon (must have been the pump again). I had to drive the family into town to shower at the folks' house. Anyway, there are so many wells pumping so much water out of the ground here that the few rivers that used to run year round here all dried up decades ago. There's only a couple left now and they barely qualify as streams. The water table has dropped dramatically over the past century. "Recharge" programs pump water back into the ground but never enough to replace what's pumped out. Perhaps, in a T2K scenario where 2/3 of the greater Tucson area population have died or been driven off, the aquifers will have time to recover somewhat.

At the moment, much of Tucson's water is imported via the Central Arizona Project canal. It's by far the biggest "river" here.

[Webstral]

The water table can be found at varying depths. In the San Pedro River Valley (where Huachuca is located), the water table is fairly close to the surface. In 1997, the water table was significantly closer to the surface than it is today. Tucson was completely reliant on ground water until the CAP was finished, with the result that the water table was much further from the surface at the start of 1998.

Rae, you are completely right that water is going to be a defining issue in SAMAD. Much of the life of people tending their intensive gardens is going to revolve around getting water to the plants. Traditional irrigation is out of the question in most locations. Drip irrigation relies on pre-Exchange hardware. For the first couple of years after the Exchange, water is transported from a water head (well, tap still connected, etc.) to the plants. In some cases, this is a long way. Some ingenious folk fashion tanker bicycles--bikes with trailers which carry 55-gallon drums. The cyclists ride at night for six months of the year, delivering water to the fields where it is needed. Gardeners then fill containers on trolleys, carts, wagons, or backpacks and distribute the water by hand. It's a hard existence.

To make matters worse, the soil is awful in a lot of locations. Though the San Pedro River Valley used to be grassland, overgrazing towards the end of the 1800's turned the area into scrubland. By 1997, the good grassland soil is long gone.

Despite all-out efforts, the first harvest of 1998 is deplorable. Fortunately, the weather supports multiple harvests per annum (provided there's enough water). A few crops make a huge difference in the quality of the soil, according to folks who have studied this approach in other semi-arid locations. Also, the people who are not tilling the soil can work to improve the water distribution system so that less labor goes into getting water from Point A to the Point B and more goes into improving the yield.

Dryland agriculture is possible, though it's a risky enterprise. Winter rainfall amounts to several inches--six to seven. The land generally slopes towards the San Pedro. Controlling the run-off so that it soaks into the ground where the crops are being grown can add a few crucial inches to the total accumulation. This calls for some earth-moving. Obviously, somebody is going to be busy figuring out how to make the most of the scarce manpower when it comes to constructing berms to direct runoff out of the arroyos before it gets to the San Pedro River. Several years ago, I posted some findings on how other folks in the Third World grow crops in semi-arid climates. I won't repeat it here, other than to say that in some cases the contour of the land is exploited to multiple the precipitation that soaks into the ground where the crops are being grown, mcuh

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Anyway, there are so many wells pumping so much water out of the ground here that the few rivers that used to run year round here all dried up decades ago. There's only a couple left now and they barely qualify as streams. The water table has dropped dramatically over the past century. "Recharge" programs pump water back into the ground but never enough to replace what's pumped out. Perhaps, in a T2K scenario where 2/3 of the greater Tucson area population have died or been driven off, the aquifers will have time to recover somewhat.

That makes a lot of sense. Here in my city we've had similar problems with too much water being drawn from the main big aquifers. Sadly a lot of unique stygofauna became extinct when the water table in the caves around Perth was too greatly reduced. Our state government has built two big desalination plants which has somewhat reduced the problem but desalination is a bloody expensive way to provide potable water and it's completely impractical in a T2K situation.

Originally Posted by Webstral

Several years ago, I posted some findings on how other folks in the Third World grow crops in semi-arid climates. I won't repeat it here, other than to say that in some cases the contour of the land is exploited to multiple the precipitation that soaks into the ground where the crops are being grown...

Absolutely. Several pre-Columbian South American civilizations were able to support impressively large populations on what we today would consider very marginal farmland through the use of man-made terraces, careful water re-routing, soil conservation and improvement, etc. You still see terracing there and in parts of Africa and SE Asia.

[natehale1971]

Web, have you thought about trying Aquaponics?

It's something that my family is planning on starting this year, or next after i move back to the homestead. The hydroponics & aquaculture create a closed circle that draws from the waste products from the fish that are pretty nasty and normally requires special methods of disposal. But ironically the waste products from the fish actually feeds the plants in such a way that the year around yeild is greatly increased.

And it doesn't require all that much space if you do it right, and it normally doesn't draw as much notice... one of the guys who's been helping me get the things ready for it, actually has his in a small shed that is about the size of a single-auto carport (the 'cheap' roof thingie that is without any walls).

And he said that the amount he's spending on food has dropped by two thrids (it'd be closer to three fourths or more if he wasn't providing for his parents and in-laws).

The smaller Tomatoes that he's been raising is bigger than a softball.

And the fish, depending on the breed.. can get huge as well. it's so amazing, i can't wait to get things set up. but currently waiting for the lease on the apartment to release me in November. And they won't let me have a little garden on the terrace.

[Webstral]

It makes good sense to recycle the fish waste. What are the fish eating?

My sunflowers have sprouted. I now see the virtue of starting them in those little planters. I planted them in groups of three, and in most cases three seedlings came up. My 4 year-old and I carefully dug up about half of them and redistributed them across the plot. We also seeded clover, which has sprouted very unevenly. I can see that I'm going to have to reseed regularly if I'm to get a halfway decent coverage of the soil.

I still want to plant an heirloom variety of corn, plus beans and pumpkins in one plot. If I really get my act together, I'll put onions and a companion something-or-other in the third plot once I get it cleared. We eat lots of garlic and scallions in this house, followed by red onions. I'd like to try tomatoes again, but I'll wait another year, I think. We eat a lot more garlic and onions than tomatoes.

I can see the value of having some good compost ready to spread on the soil. Clover is supposed to get raked into the soil so that it has a modest covering. I don't have the right rake for that job, and I'm not willing to put down $30 for a new rake until I prove to myself that I have some staying power with this project. I recycled the soil from a houseplant that didn't make it so I could cover some of the fresh clover seed in a shallow layer. My son was very helpful in getting the soil out of the old pot, but once he discovered the yellow beads in the bottom of the pot he turned all his attention to digging "treasure" out of the bottom of the pot. I'll provide some feedback on whether a modest covering improves the sprouting of the clover. Since it's a nitrogen fixer, I'd like to grow it as densely as possible so that next year I can grow tomatoes and basil in that area.

[natehale1971]

there is a type of lichen (sp) that grows as a 'scum' type vegie that is actually eatible by humans (and is said to taste like lettecce. and is also considered as the perfect TEOTWAWKI food stuff. I cant remember the exact name of this, but it's on one o the websites that tells people how to set up the Aquaponics system.

The veggies also provide water purification as well as food stuffs.

If you want, i'll get you the basiscs for the set-up. there is alot of good stuff in it. and it's pretty cool to do. while the intital set up can be expensive depending on how you go about it... in the long run it quickly starts paying for itself within a few months when the first crops start to come in.

If you are wanting to use heirloom seeds to grow totally natural and organic veggies, you'll need to make sure you grow them in an enclosed space since the pollen and seed spores from altered plants can get to them in open fields. it's werid, but true. I've talked with farmers whom had to close down because the altered seeds had spread to their fields from the fields being used to grow the modified plants.

but if no on in your area is uing altered seeds, you'll be okay... but you're best bet is to keep track of your crops as they are growing... and if you find plants that ARE growing from these genetically modified plants. PULL THEM UP ASAP. Don't burn them... bag them up and throw them out in your trash. I have been told that if you burn them, they can contaminate the rest of the plants in your garden. on the safe side, i was told to also do this to the surrounding plants.

but i've only talked to one person about that... and he was a farmer whom had to deal with this on a regular basis, since the other farmers whom used the Genetically Modified Seeds actually used the law to take him to court for violating some kind of clause. it was really stupid and he was really angry about how much money he had lost due to law suits.

[Webstral]

I'd be very interesting in seeing the schematic.

My son and I have added corn and pumpkins in the new plot. Once the corn sprouts, we'll add beans next to the corn. Pumpkin seeds are very expensive, we've discovered. 14 seeds were $3.00. We're going to keep all those seeds for the future rather than buy any more of the same variety.

The sunflowers are doing great. The clover is not. I'm going to have to keep adding clover seed. I've got to figure out why some clover sprouts while most of it doesn't.

[natehale1971]

It's a PDF that i've got, i'll get it and the other thigns i've been reading uploaded into my public folder in Dropbox... and then give you a link to it!

[simonmark6]

You might want to plant dill and oregano with your pumpkins. They'll deter pests and go well with your garlic.

Corn and pumpkins grow well together so that's a good choice. You might also want to companion plant marigolds and nasturciums if you have the time. Both are good bug deterrants. Whatever you do, don't plant potatoes in the same plot.

[Webstral]

I put in marigolds yesterday. Once the corn and pumpkins sprout, I'll put some marigolds in the open spaces. Hopefully, they'll do okay in the gaps. I also put marigolds along a strip at the back of the plot and more in the corners where I'm growing sunflowers.

Potatoes... I want to plant some, but I don't have the space. I'd also like to put in basil because basil is so danged expensive. $3.00 for a bunch that will make just enough pesto to cover four drumsticks. Highway robbery, that. What I really need is more containers (and, of course, soil to go in them). With containers I can make better use of the deck, which gets lots of sun and otherwise serves no good purpose. Then I can move the contents of the herb garden and use that plot for potatoes, onions, and garlic. I'm trying to look ahead to Thanksgiving. It would be nice to have potatoes from my own yard for the occasion.

[simonmark6]

We have very little space in our yard but we have grown potatoes inside old tires filled with earth. that might be viable for you. As for dill and other herbs, do you have walls with decent sunshine?

If so, buy some plastic piping as long as you can reach (we used drain pipes). Cut vee shapes half-way through every 6-8 inches (you might ask a vet gardener in your area about the best for your climate) and screw to the walls about two feet apart. Fill with earth and grow stuff out of each pocket.

We use them for strawberries and they're fantastic. When we really work at it we put trellises between and grow climbers like peas and runner beans in between.

Another thing you might consider is asparagus peas: great flowers, edible leaves when they're young and peas which taste of asparagus later. The peas can be dried and rehydrated later or ground up (I hear they make a coffe substitute but when we grew them we ate them as they came out of the pod-yum).

[natehale1971]

Also remember that depending upon your roof, that is area that can be used for growing some smaller veggies or more commonly used for solar pannels. I read somewhere that a family had installed solar pannels on their roof, and in the area between the pannels they set up some root veggies since they didn't need to be watered every day, or could be watered with a hose creating a 'rainfall' like effect.

Also layering and stacking some of the plants is a good way to go, it can double or tripple your growing space. Also if you're growing a more vine like veggie (tomatoes and green beans) you can create a lattice work that will draw the plant upward... this has the benefit of keeping the veggies grown from touching the ground. and allows them to grow even bigger with all the space to grow and expand without something getting in the way.

if you have pictures of your back yard, we could give more informed suggestions for how to set up the growing area. when i go to mom's for Saturday Night dinner & game night, i'll take a few pics of the garden areas we have on the homestead.

[Webstral]

I'd be happy to have suggestions. I can't promise they will get put into effect anytime soon. Money is VERY tight, so new containers and that sort of thing are unlikely to appear this year.

Yesterday, my son and I redistributed the pumpkins that had sprouted and a few corn seedlings. Then we planted beans next to the corn sprouts. It should be interesting! I remain disappointed with the clover. There must be a technique of some sort to get clover to sprout. I notice that clumps of it are coming up, though I distributed the seeds as evenly as possible.

Next on the hit parade are potatoes and carrots. I cut some older potatoes and let the exposed surfaces develop a skin. I bought carrot seeds and some little planters. I'll plant marigolds in the planters, too, since none of them came up when I planted them in the ground. The potatoes will go in next to the driveway. I don't expect a bumper crop, but I'd like to have enough for mashed potatoes for Thanksgiving. Maybe in the future I can acquire some containers and develop a nice soil for container potatoes.

[Webstral]

My first potatoes have sprouted. I planted these in a patch of bare soil between my rosemary plant and some shrubs next to the driveway. This is all very exciting. My beans have sprouted, too, and are growing more quickly than the corn. I'm wondering how the beans are supposed to climb the corn. I still haven't been able to get the clover to grow in the sunflower patch with anything like a uniform coverage. I'd say about 5% of the soil is covered the way I'd like it to be, and another 5% has some coverage, at least. The new farmers of SAMAD doubtless had a first season like this.

[Webstral]

I'm now up to 6 potato plants. I also found a resource online about using my Compost Tumblr, which is supposed to provide compost in two weeks instead of 3-6 months. This is all very exciting! I still haven't cracked the code on growing clover, but I now have a local resource for answering my gardening questions. It's all very exciting!

For the future (I don't know how distant), I want to run an experiment on carbon dioxide in the greenhouse. Some time ago, I read about a greenhouse experiment in which the carbon dioxide levels in a greenhouse were artificially elevated to more than 200% their natural levels. Plant growth accelerated dramatically. I have been wondering if one could not bump carbon levels to 1000% of their natural levels in a hydroponic hothouse (or cold house, for that matter) to double or triple the growth rate of vegetables that resist "traditional" mechanized agriculture. The drawback to this method is that any workers would need to have a respiration system. Worker safety issues would have to be sorted out in procedure and even in the design of the greenhouse. But it you could get tomatoes every 30 days as a result, the effort might be worthwhile. I must find out how I can get a government grant.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Webstral

For the future (I don't know how distant), I want to run an experiment on carbon dioxide in the greenhouse. Some time ago, I read about a greenhouse experiment in which the carbon dioxide levels in a greenhouse were artificially elevated to more than 200% their natural levels. Plant growth accelerated dramatically. I have been wondering if one could not bump carbon levels to 1000% of their natural levels in a hydroponic hothouse (or cold house, for that matter) to double or triple the growth rate of vegetables that resist "traditional" mechanized agriculture. The drawback to this method is that any workers would need to have a respiration system. Worker safety issues would have to be sorted out in procedure and even in the design of the greenhouse. But it you could get tomatoes every 30 days as a result, the effort might be worthwhile. I must find out how I can get a government grant.

Carbon Dioxide makes up 0.039% of our Atmosphere. Some of the supporting data in this study suggests that humans can tolerate up to 3 or 4% with little to no issues

Storm and Giannetta [14] had 6 participants breathe 4% CO2, for 14 days and found no effects on complex tracking, eye–hand coordination, and problem solving.

http://www.ciop.pl/21104

Four percent is a 10000% increase over atmospheric levels. I'm sure lawyers would be all over you if some type of workplace accident happened, but the science shows that a 1000% increase should be completely safe.


Edit

It looks like OSHA is more strict than i would have expected. (The study that I cited feels these levels should be re-evaluated)

normal outdoor level: 350 - 450 ppm
ASHRAE and OSHA standards: 1000 ppm
maximum allowed concentration within a 8 hour working period: 5000 ppm

build your greenhouse in another country

[Webstral]

My first experiment in growing the Three Sisters is at its conclusion. See attached photo for the yield from my 6'x3' plot with about 20 plants.

[General Pain]

Yo Webstral - haveyou tried Jerusalem Artichoke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_artichoke

It's real easy to make ..comes from north Americas...and you can combine it with fish and meat dinners....

I (or shouldI say my GF) make a realnice puré from this and other root-vegies..

Anyway good luck with your gardening....

[Webstral]

I have, though only once. Whole Foods had sunflower chokes, and I gave it a go. Not bad at all. Another reason to grow sunflowers.

[Canadian Army]

This year we planted Beans, Cucumbers, Corn, Watermelon, Tomatoes. All did well except for the Corn, dam birds. I thought I did well with my tomatoes, until we got baseball size tomatoes from my wife's aunt.