Anti Tank Rifles

[kcdusk]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

"hydrostatic shock" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

Whenever i hear this term, i think of the graphic of the bullet moving through the body in the movie "Three Kings".

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Some good points Targan. Perhaps because .50 BMG has such a thick jacket and doesn't deform actually improved his chances in a roundabout way, straight through with a nice clean hole at either side, less damage than if the round tumbled, a classic case of overpenetration

As for hydrostatic shock, it's such a murky concept I think it needs a whole lot more research done before I am totally convinced of either
1. it causes damage significant enough to cause death
2. it doesn't cause enough damage to warrant its inclusion as a factor in the stopping and/or killing power of a round.

Having started my training with the L1A1 and then later the F88 and having shot a few animals with .308 and .223, I'm leaning more towards big'n'slow will screw you up and fast'n'light will annoy you (there's a reason individual flechette rounds for rifles were discontinued). I think that hydrostatic shock while definately causing some wounding effect, tends to be overestimated in those effects

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The term "hydrostatic shock" springs to mind as being somewhat relevant....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

Unfortunately, hydrostatic shock is largely myth. Except for the brain (enclosed by a fairly inflexible skull) and perhaps the somewhat rigid liver, hydrostatic shock is not really an issue in gunshot wounds.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

And we have yet another thing that RPG rules in general don't really simulate very well.

FWIW, in GURPS an AP round halves effective armor but then has it's damage divided by two against a living target.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by copeab

Unfortunately, hydrostatic shock is largely myth. Except for the brain (enclosed by a fairly inflexible skull) and perhaps the somewhat rigid liver, hydrostatic shock is not really an issue in gunshot wounds.

That's another thing that needs some work in the T2K rules -- myths.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

That's another thing that needs some work in the T2K rules -- myths.

Actually that's something that the T2K rules DO deal with quite well - with the rumour tables in each module.

[jester]

Actualy the antitank rifle was used in Korea as well by the Chicoms as a long range sniper weapon.

I also remember reading about the soviet antitank rifles at Kursk. And some tanks would have several holes in their vehicles so stopping was not done.

On a T2K note,

I have just added an NPC who has a modified Soviet antitank rifle, just so he can have the benefit of a very heavy round to deal with vehicles and such at roadblocks, as well as taking pot shots at enemy forces who are in fortifications.

You must admit, sometimes a few well placed rounds of something heavy is what is called for, not a burst from a machinegun or a larger round or a rocket launcher. And since the round is found with Ivans heavy MGs it is fairly easy to get.

Modifications my NPC made was a modern bipod, a thick buttpad for the stock and a folding stock with built in shock absorber and of course a muzzlegreak and a few inches of the barrel has been cut off for portability.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by jester

Actualy the antitank rifle was used in Korea as well by the Chicoms as a long range sniper weapon.

I also remember reading about the soviet antitank rifles at Kursk. And some tanks would have several holes in their vehicles so stopping was not done.

A million years ago when I was ROTC, one of the little tidbits SGM Mills told us once was about a tactic the Mujaheddin used in Afghanistan against Soviet APCs and IFVs -- particularly the BTRs. They found they could actually stop them long enough for a good antiarmor shot by killing the driver. The driver-killers used old Mosin-Nagants to shoot the driver through the side or top of the vehicle's skin where the driver was. An RPG or sometimes an ATGM shot would quickly follow.

(SGM Mills had a lot of those little tidbits. Since his previous assignment before being an ROTC instructor was high up at 5th SF Group, he was still hooked into the "SF Network." I remember him distinctly to this day because I learned so much from him.)