Which version?

[guncrazy]

I am thinking about buying twilight 2000 but was wondering which version to get? 1st? 2nd? or 2.2?

[pmulcahy11b]

A lot of people prefer the mechanics of v1. Few prefer v2; it was sort of a stopgap release. Most seem to prefer the v2.2 mechanics, and they're easy to customize. (It's version I write by site for,) However, these same people (me included) prefer the v1 timeline, or their own custom timeline.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

As fiddly as it was I liked 1e; I felt the art was well done. Lord knows the two books could have and should have been edited a lot better. Combat is split in two, over two books, but I like the mechanics.

[guncrazy]

I found the version 2.2 boxset on ebay for $80. What comes in the set? And is 2.2 compatible with 2.1 books such as the NATO vehicle guide?

[Rainbow Six]

If you don't mind getting a soft copy rather than a hard copy you might want to check out drivethrurpg.com - you can get PDF copies for a lot less than USD80. V1 bundle is USD40 and includes the rules set and a shedload of modules.

[guncrazy]

I personally wouldn't mind, however my friends are technical dinosaurs with no laptops, or even any legit source to read PDFs. But I will check out drivethrurpg. Thank you.

[boogiedowndonovan]

I like all three versions for different reasons.

V1, the original grandaddy of them all. The timeline works for the most part, just have to imagine the cold war never ended. Most of the supplements out there are for V1. I don't like how it grouped "shots" into 3 rounds of ammo.

V2/V2.2, streamlined character creation and rules, although I liked the damage charts for V1 vehicles, need to know what happens if your T-55 upper left front glacis is penetrated by a HEAT round? well then they have damage charts for that. V2/2.2 has additional nationalities and careers in the rulebook. You wanna be a Belgian actor/French Foreign Legion paratrooper/idle rich millionaire/politician, well you can, but everything is broken into 4 year terms. Timeline was updated to the RL 90's but it needs some jiggering. More modern vehicles in the books. V2.2 characters are compatible with Traveller rpg.

Despite all this, I personally like 2.2, but that's just me. Most people prefer V1 though.

Do you absolutely positively need a real physical copy of the rule books? Keep in mind T2k has been out of print for well over a decade so getting copies of supplements will be hard.

If you don't absolutely positively need a real physical copy of the rule books printed in the 80's or 90's, drivethrurpg has been mention, but what about buying a copy on CD?

You can get copies of everything ever printed by GDW for Twilight 2000, including Challenge magazine articles on CD through Farfuture. One CD for all V1 and one CD for all V2/V2.2. I would imagine you could print them out for your tech challenged friends as well.

http://www.farfuture.net/FFE-CDROMs.html

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by guncrazy

I found the version 2.2 boxset on ebay for $80. What comes in the set?

V2.2 boxed set includes some color adventure cards. Basically some one page adventures that you can run without much prep time. It also has some maps and sheets of game counters that you can use for games, instead of drawing things on paper or lugging around miniatures. The counters represent vehicles and men (or women).

Here's some descriptions

http://www.waynesbooks.com/Twilight2000.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ynesworldof-20

$80 bucks wow, is it brand new mint condition? If they claim it is mint condition ask if the game counter sheets are cut or uncut. There should be two sheets.

I wonder how much a "gently used" T2.2 boxed set will go for?

Originally Posted by guncrazy

And is 2.2 compatible with 2.1 books such as the NATO vehicle guide?

My books are packed away, but I'm going to say yes, but there are some differences between 2.2 and 2.0. I can't remember off the top of my head all of the differences. But the one that sticks out to me the most is the vehicle damage charts are slightly different. For some vehicles, 2.0 uses a "crew in hull (CIH)" to describe certain vehicles , but this is missing from 2.2 I think. I don't think it is anything drastic like the switch from V1 to V2.0 though.

[Raellus]

Last time I checked, which admittedly was a year or two ago, e-Bay was selling used copies of the core v2.2 rulebook for anywhere from $10 to $100. I prefer the v2.2 rules for their relative ease of use. The learning curve isn't too steep either.

I prefer the v1.0 timeline and the original artwork and such still gives me a nostalgia high. I bought a lightly used omnibus edition from an Amazon marketplace vendor that included the first three Poland modules for about $20. That, however, was about 7 years ago.

EDIT:

I just checked e-bay. There are currently a couple of v1.0 box sets for sale, in the $10-25 range, and a few v2.2 BYBs from .99 up to $25.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Version 2 (AKA 2nd Edition) was superseded by Version 2.2
Main differences are that Ver. 2 uses a d10 system while Ver. 2.2 changed that to a d20 system compatible with the Traveller: The New Era (AKA Traveller:TNE or just TNE) rules. This also means that material for TNE is compatible with Version 2.2.

1st Edition (AKA Version 1) uses a percentile system and in some cases has more complex rules mechanics than Ver. 2/Ver. 2.2 which is why some people prefer the later editions. Some of us prefer the easier rules because they're quicker to implement. To me, this is the most important question you need to answer - are you and your friends interested in complex rules or do you all prefer less complex rules.
Personally I prefer rules light, I'd rather have a good story that the rules guide and assist with, rather than a heavy/crunchy set of rules that force the story to conform to the reality created by the mechanics of the game.

2nd Ed and 2.2 both uses a Difficulty Level system to judge the success or failure of a skill check. In 2nd Ed. this is a three level system consisting of (if I can remember properly) Easy, Difficult and Impossible levels of tasks. In 2.2 this was increased to five levels of difficulty - Easy, Average, Difficult, Formidable and Impossible (Impossible does not literally mean impossible, just that the task is incredibly difficult).
Both systems work on the idea that Difficult requires you to roll less than or equal to your relevant skill to pass the check. For 2nd Ed. Easy requires you to roll equal/less than 2x your skill and Impossible requires you to roll equal/less than half of your skill to pass.

For Version 2.2, the old Easy is now Average and the old Impossible is now Formidable while the new Easy has become 4x your skill and the new Impossible has become 1/4 of your skill.
The 2.2 system allows for a greater range of checks and the rules also mention that you can expand this further if you need to by for example including 8x your skill for really easy tasks that still have a chance of failure and also 1/8 your skill for really difficult tasks that still have a slim chance of success.
It's worth keeping in mind that the 1st Ed. scenarios can be adapted to 2.2 rules without much difficulty so it's definitely worth thinking about buying them if you want lots of adventure/source material.

And yes, there was a Version 2.1 but it was a more of a test of updating the Ver. 2 mechanics to a d20 system. They refined/improved it and created the 2.2 system from the information.

All the 2nd Ed. material is compatible with the Ver. 2.2 system, you'll just need to be aware that some tweaks might need to be made
This also means that any material from the Dark Conspiracy 1st Ed. and Cadillacs & Dinosaurs game is able to be used because they share the same rules system as T2k 2nd Ed.
Dark Conspiracy 2nd Ed. is also compatible with T2k 2.2 because their rules systems are practically the same (with just some minor variations such as the rules governing vehicle travel).

I would recommend you either buy a bundle from DriveThruRPG or buy the CD-ROMs from Far Future Enterprises (AKA FFE). The CDs are available as one CD for 1st Ed. and one CD for Version 2/2.2, however they include everything released for their respective editions. The CDs sell for US$35 and are much better value for money but you will have to wait for delivery (keeping in mind that FFE is basically a one-man operation consisting of Marc Miller and whatever friends or family he can get help from).
The hardcopy would be nice to have but you'll spend less money printing the various pages from the PDFs you'll need... but, the hardcopy would be really nice to have (I have the CD-ROMs but I still like to have the physical books at the game!)

FFE http://www.farfuture.net/cdroms.html
DTRPG http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?cPath=23

[guncrazy]

Thanks I will definitely check these places out. Seems 2.2 would be the way to go since everyone isn't into complex number crunching rules.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

I don't like how it grouped "shots" into 3 rounds of ammo.

That was the one part of V1 rules that I really, really did not like.

[guncrazy]

My only experience with any gameplay is the old Twilight 2000 computer game.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

@ guncrazy - I think you'll get some good value out of the game, being set in a modern time period lets you convert just about anything from the real world for use in the game. Some people have made game stats for their own real world cars for example or their own hunting rifles and so on and if you need to get lots more vehicles, weapons and equipment, one of the people here, Paul Mulcahy, has one of the largest collections (if not the largest) on the web.
http://www.pmulcahy.com/
There's no images due to some legal hassles (with a large company who claimed that he was infringing on their rights) but you can find pictures of most of the items with a websearch.


And there's one "guilty pleasure" that some people have done, something you can't do with many other games on the market - you can wreck your hometown and set the games in the ruins.

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by guncrazy

My only experience with any gameplay is the old Twilight 2000 computer game.

The computer game uses 2.0 character creation method, you probably know this already though.