The loss of modern infantry weapons

[Legbreaker]

What about plans? It's awfully hard to produce something as technical as an M16 without them.
Far better to stick with simpler designs with greater tolerances (such as the Sten or basic bolt action weapons) in the early years and rely on prewar supplies of the more advanced and complex systems such as belt fed machineguns, assault rifles and so on. Chances are ammunition isn't going to be all that available for the more complex weapons anyway...

[Targan]

What Leg said.

[kalos72]

Are .223 and .308 the same rounds are 5.56 and 7.62Nato rounds, just the civilian versions? If so I can see the logic in making bolt action rifles to those calibers for a bit of standardization at least.

[Legbreaker]

Generally yes.

[neuk]

This is more a case of making a gun, the mechanics is the same regardless of the weapon. If it is a case of not having the skill pool, then you would be taking a barrel of an existing but broken weapon. Then manufacturing a hammer system to fire it. These weapons would be single shot. But not as poor as a Zip gun.

There is little difference between the complexities of a bolt action and say a AK47 (I have left out the M16 because I agree it is a complex weapon) Having seen and stripped AKM’s they are SO simple, and used to ‘play’ with SMLE 7.62 Nato rifles (India conversion from British .303).

If you have the original item I believe any competent person with a set of decent hand tools could over time manufacture any item, using the original as your plan or pattern. History proves this time and time again, will it be as good as the original? No! Will it work most of the time yes, will it jam more often, not except new parts, brake at the worse time, of course. But that can be great fun as the GM to give the players kit that is dodgy at best.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Are .223 and .308 the same rounds are 5.56 and 7.62Nato rounds, just the civilian versions? If so I can see the logic in making bolt action rifles to those calibers for a bit of standardization at least.

The general differences between the civilian and military versions are the propellant charge and the thickness of the case walls. Military ammunition generally is more powerful than its civilian counterpart due to the composition and amount of its propellant, and most civilian rifles are not actually stressed to fire it without causing damage to the rifle in the long term.

And of course, I will stress that this is a generalization, and like all else, is not always true.

[Legbreaker]

Back in the early 90's when we used to use the local civilian range for our L1A1's, it was fairly common to trade the expended issued brass with the local gunclub. The .308 brass they had wasn't as good for reloading as the 7.62N.

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Back in the early 90's when we used to use the local civilian range for our L1A1's, it was fairly common to trade the expended issued brass with the local gunclub. The .308 brass they had wasn't as good for reloading as the 7.62N.

WHAT! Civilian range and you didnt have to pick up spent brass! "You shoot twenty and you will give me 20 empty." Very nice and easy when it was dark and snow on the ground... (Sako and Lapua will reload spent brass to blank rounds and guess what- when not on FDF area you have to pick those up too...)

[jester]

I am so glad we never had yo account for our "spent" blanks Because most were never spent, but, they did get "used" or so the report went.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Trooper

WHAT! Civilian range and you didnt have to pick up spent brass! "You shoot twenty and you will give me 20 empty." Very nice and easy when it was dark and snow on the ground... (Sako and Lapua will reload spent brass to blank rounds and guess what- when not on FDF area you have to pick those up too...)

I think we had to return about 90%, but as long as it looked right on casual inspection (ie couldn't make the weight up with brass bednobs)...
So, we usually spent 15 minutes clearing the mound followed by a swift echange of sandbags with the gun club. Everyone got what they wanted and a few drinks were passed round.