In Defense of the Red Army

[Legbreaker]

The Soveits really knew how to boil it all down to the KISS principle...

[Tackleberry]

Quantity does have its own quality though.

Even with the Challengers, M1's and Leopards the North German plain would have been a very interesting punch up.

If you consider that in every exercise I took part in in the 80's Royal Air Force in Germany, we went "Chemical" straight away and "Nuclear" after 3 days.

IF the Russians had come over the border in either August (summer holidays) or at Xmas time, with everyone at skeleton manning. And without the time to reinforce I think the Red army would have made it to the Rhine, in the perfect Tank country of North Germany.

Once their supply lines got that extended it would have stopped them, but it would certainly have been close.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Tackleberry

IF the Russians had come over the border in either August (summer holidays) or at Xmas time, with everyone at skeleton manning. And without the time to reinforce I think the Red army would have made it to the Rhine, in the perfect Tank country of North Germany.

And with most of the personnel elsewhere, much of the prepositioned vehicles and supplies would have to be left behind as those few troops on the ground were forced back. Could have been absolutely crippling for NATO. Give the Soviets a few weeks for their logisitics to sort themselves out and they'd have been ready to push over the Rhine, through France and potentially take out Europe entirely.

NATO may have been able to fly in troops quickly enough during that pause, but with most of their equipment already behind enemy lines, more bodies on the ground wouldn't mean very much.

[Panther Al]

The only problem with the "Holiday Blitz" is that it takes a little while to go from sitting around in the motorpool to ready to kick ass and take names. This will get spotted, and while it might not be enough to warn that they are about to roll west, it is enough that leaves and such will be cancelled. So, there won't be a situation such as that.

However:

There is always a catch. In Red Storm Rising, Clancy used a surprise attack- with the surprise being on both NATO, and most of the Russian Troops as well. Going from Motorpool to combat ops with no getting ready for it is sure to be a shocking surprise, and one that would let the Russians fall on units that are not there because they are off skiing in the alps. Of course, you had better hope that you can back the play, as you won't have much in logistics built up.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

The only problem with the "Holiday Blitz" is that it takes a little while to go from sitting around in the motorpool to ready to kick ass and take names. This will get spotted, and while it might not be enough to warn that they are about to roll west, it is enough that leaves and such will be cancelled. So, there won't be a situation such as that.

However:

There is always a catch. In Red Storm Rising, Clancy used a surprise attack- with the surprise being on both NATO, and most of the Russian Troops as well. Going from Motorpool to combat ops with no getting ready for it is sure to be a shocking surprise, and one that would let the Russians fall on units that are not there because they are off skiing in the alps. Of course, you had better hope that you can back the play, as you won't have much in logistics built up.

will get spotted? like in 1952 a few miles north of where im sitting? its not hard to spoof pogishness(is that even a word, well it is now)

[Panther Al]

Actually, with mechanised forces is rather easy to spot - provided the force in question has someone in charge that has a working brain. Fuel trucks you might think, but no, for tanks use craptastic amounts of fuel, even if they sit in the motor pool 3 days out of 4. Services? Nope, tanks by their very nature are maintenance hogs: the good ones are simply well stressed, the bad ones over-stressed, but they are all stressed to the point where maintenance has to be done all the time. Nope, the number one reason why its easy to spot a armoured unit getting ready to roll someplace, with little to no down time expected is tracks.

Tracks.

They don't last that long, even the all steel ones (usually no more than 1000 to 1500 miles in peacetime, half that at best in war - with the soviet style ones being even less durable), and they are a bitch to swap out. When you are getting ready to pick a fight, the last thing you want your tanks to do is throw track, so you pull the old ones, use them as spares, armour, what have you, and put new ones on - even if they are expensive. So, if you are some photo guy, and you see 90% of the tanks in the bad guys motor pool lining up to swap track, you know they are getting ready to go someplace where they don't expect to have the time nor freedom to do when, not if, they break unexpectedly. Even when we went to Iraq for the invasion, almost all our tanks, even the ones that had less than a 150km on them, got new track for that very reason.

Its always the little things that really tell the tale if a threat is real or not.

Its one of the reasons I always had a separate wear value for track in the games I run. The PC's spend almost as much time looking for track as they do for ammo for the Beast.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah it is the small details that people don't think about. It one of those things I like about these boards is that when you get people who had experience they tend to point out things that a great GM will take and incorporate into their game. Or ideas how to manage their game without going overboard....