Composition of TF34

[Legbreaker]

I just had a thought on the whole TF34 thing.
Why would the Germans give up all that oil before the US troops were loaded up and all that lovely heavy equipment and supplies handed over?
Sure they might give the US a trickle of fuel so they can carry out vital logistic tasks such as gather the ships together and generate the necessary power, but I'm sure as hell they won't be allowing the ships to fuel up more than a thimbleful any sooner than they absolutely had to.

If the fuel was released earlier, what's to stop the US from simply reneging on their deal and loading up as much as they can squeeze into their ships and sailing off into the sunset?

[atiff]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I just had a thought on the whole TF34 thing.
Why would the Germans give up all that oil before the US troops were loaded up and all that lovely heavy equipment and supplies handed over?
Sure they might give the US a trickle of fuel so they can carry out vital logistic tasks such as gather the ships together and generate the necessary power, but I'm sure as hell they won't be allowing the ships to fuel up more than a thimbleful any sooner than they absolutely had to.

If the fuel was released earlier, what's to stop the US from simply reneging on their deal and loading up as much as they can squeeze into their ships and sailing off into the sunset?

Then again, as the Germans, why would you turn over the fuel after the Americans have given you all their gear and put themselves into a nice, tight, easy-to-Fireball group?

Oh, sorry, wrong game

[Legbreaker]

50,000 US servicemen, even with only personal weapons and stiffened with Military Police AFVs are still likely to be a little more than a speed bump to the Germans if they decide on a double cross....

On the other hand, one nuke should just about do the job.

It may be that fuel is handed over in stages. For every "X" tonnes of military vehicles and stores, the Germans hand over "Y" tonnes of oil.

The main point is that there is no way if I were the German command that I'd be simply handing over the oil tanker and hoping the Americans keep their word. May be allies, but it's several years after global nuclear holocaust and my so called allies are (from some points of view) deserting the cause like rats off a sinking ship.

[Webstral]

Well, there's this whole thing about alliances, fighting together under the nuclear shadow, etc. Maybe there just comes a point at which being a blue falcon doesn't make as much sense as carrying through on a deal. The Germans did start WW3, and the US did back them up, and the US did play the nuclear game when at any point the Americans could have decided that they could have taken their ball and gone home. Maybe the Germans who are still in command are the kinds of folks to whom that sort of thing means more than a tanker full of unrefined oil.

[Legbreaker]

You're probably right, but the tanker is still an amazingly valuable resource. The Germans might not be looking to do a double cross, but on the other hand, from their perspective, what's to stop the Americans if the fuel was handed over too early?
It's not like the Americans have to live with the consequences - they're about to sail halfway around the world and will probably have nothing further to do with Europe for a generation or two.

Meanwhile of course there's those US units staying behind, but the assumption in the planning stages had to always be the US were aiming for a 100% withdrawal.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

You're probably right, but the tanker is still an amazingly valuable resource. The Germans might not be looking to do a double cross, but on the other hand, from their perspective, what's to stop the Americans if the fuel was handed over too early?

Lack of space becomes the German guarantee that the Americans will leave their heavy gear. A comparison between the shipping carrying the Americans to Virginia and the requirements for heavy gear should satisfy the Germans that the tanks, guns, and other heavy equipment will stay in Germany.

[Legbreaker]

Even so, it's just plain bad practise to hand over payment prior to receiving the goods.
As an example, if you were buying a new luxury car, would you really hand over every last dollar weeks before even laying eyes on it? No, you'd probably only go as far as laying down a deposit and hand over the rest of the cash when you got the keys.
The same logic applies to the oil and the German shipping (page three again - NO mention of US ships involved besides the USS John Hancock). The Germans aren't stupid. They're sure to retain absolute control of the resources involved until they've got what they're paying for.

One other point is that until the last week or so, nobody is likely to know just how many people will be boarding the ships, and it's also likely that involvement of a few ships remains uncertain (ongoing repairs, etc). With that uncertainty, the Americans could manage to slip in half a dozen tanks, a truckload of electronics, ten tonnes of valuable medical supplies and so forth - the Germans would be doing everything in their power to prevent that.

My belief as previously indicated is the Germans would only part with a minimal amount of oil necessary for getting the ships to the point of ready for departure. An inspection would then be carried out by Germans and the ship would be allowed to move to the fuel point to fill it's tanks. This may well mean the passengers are cooped up aboard ship another couple of days, but at least they've got a roof over their heads, food supplied, nobody shooting at them, and they're on the way home.