USS Saratoga Fate

[Olefin]

Always glad to be of service!

[Olefin]

Oh and since not everyone may be familiar with what Frank Frey posted on Kenya using his notes plus the notes of several people who communicated with him this is what the canon would have been for his module if he had finished it and published it - and again since he wrote many of the modules I think we can agree on this being "canon" since it was to be a GDW T2000 module

TF 212
• CG 50 USS Valley Forge, one SH-2F Seasprite, (flagship)
• DDG 996 USS Chandler, one SH-2F Seasprite
• DDG 46 USS Preble
• FF 1058 USS Meyerkord, one SH-2F Seasprite
• DD 950 USS Richard S. Edwards

TF 212.1 Support Group
• T-A0 146 Kawishiwi
• AE 22 Mauna Kea
TF 212.2 Patrol Group
• PC 11 Whirlwind
• PC 12 Thunderbolt
• MCM 7 Patriot
• WMEC 725 USCGC Jarvis
• USCGC WPB 1302 Manitou

Edwards is a Forrest Sherman class that in real life was expended in 1997 as a target - here she would have been part of the other Forrest Shermans that were put back in service as mentioned in Troubled Waters (Challenge Magazine article)

While the discussion changed the names of some of the ships for better candidates the composition as to numbers in general stayed the same.

And these ships would be operational ones, not stranded or out of fuel.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

EDIT: Fixed up the post to reflect that Saratoga is not in fact a CV-N. Can't believe I made that mistake. Anyway, fixes are bolded.

It's always nice to see one's name mentioned.

My thoughts on the Saratoga being where it is were based on the idea that she'd been working the southwest Atlantic, near Florida, and had been ordered to stop convoys of Division Cuba from reaching the coast of Texas. She got into a shooutout with Soviet and Cuban surface elements and while she broke the back of Soviet Naval operations in the region and virtually destroyed the last of the "official" Cuban navy, she absorbed at least a few cruise-missile hits and near misses and was badly crippled. Realizing a ship that could maybe someday be put back in action was preferable to a ship that was a natural reef her commander beached her in the shallows off of Port Ritchie, launching all remaining a/c as she went.

For my campaign purposes, the remaining crew did an able job of damage control, and there is a contingent of Marines and a skeleton crew of sailors on-board to maintain the ship. As the ships condensers are a source of fresh water and her sickbay facilities are (despite being mostly out of supplies) essentially a pre-war quality hospital, plus her considerable machine shop facilities the sparse civilian population near her beached location welcome her presence and trade food with the crew for use of her facilities. The locals also promulgate the story that the Saratoga is a ghost ship, abandoned due to unexploded ammunition and danger of internal collapse. The crew on board maintain this illusion by leaving the outer deck and hull in seemingly poor shape, however the below-deck spaces are maintained to the best possible standards.

For hostiles who refuse to turn back, the Marines on board have full control of the CIWS systems, .50 cal. machine guns, light arms and ad-hoc rocket launchers. How long they could hold out against a dedicated assault is anyone's guess though: the ship is too tempting a target for salvage for New America to just leave alone for too long.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

My thoughts on the Saratoga being where it is were based on the idea that she'd been working the southwest Atlantic, near Florida, ...

For my campaign purposes, the remaining crew did an able job of damage control, and there is a contingent of Marines and a skeleton crew of sailors on-board to maintain the reactor.

If you want the reactor to be working, best change the name of the ship: CV-60 is an oil-burner.
USS Enterprise, Nimitz, Eisenhower, Vinson, T.Roosevelt, Washington, Stennis were the CVNs of 1995. R. Reagan wasn't even laid down until 1998.

Interesting: IRL USS Harry S Truman was launched 7 Sep 96, commissioned 25 July 98. In a T2k world, I surely think the Navy was able to speed her commissioning and deployment? She's under construction at Newport News, an obvious target for a Soviet nuke. Even if not finished, the reactor would be a great thing to have for rebuilding around Norfolk!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

If you want the reactor to be working, best change the name of the ship: CV-60 is an oil-burner.
USS Enterprise, Nimitz, Eisenhower, Vinson, T.Roosevelt, Washington, Stennis were the CVNs of 1995. R. Reagan wasn't even laid down until 1998.

DOH. D TO THE OH. I'll...fix that...

Interesting: IRL USS Harry S Truman was launched 7 Sep 96, commissioned 25 July 98. In a T2k world, I surely think the Navy was able to speed her commissioning and deployment? She's under construction at Newport News, an obvious target for a Soviet nuke. Even if not finished, the reactor would be a great thing to have for rebuilding around Norfolk!

It now makes Norfolk a lot more sensible as the final destination of TF34: assuming you're going with a canon "Going Home", the first place the soldiers see is a town with electricity (well, some, at least in the port facilities) and light industry and maybe (just maybe) they think "Hey, things are getting better" instead of "Hey, we're being thrown off the ship into a postapocalyptic wasteland, let's mutiny right now and go Mad Max on Norfolk."

[Legbreaker]

A mobile, nuclear powered carrier, even without planes isn't possible.
With the ability to carry thousands of troops and tens of thousands of tonnes of cargo, it's a massive game changer and Omega would have been a completely different kettle of fish. The US wouldn't need the German fuel to get their troops home - just half a dozen Atlantic crossings and a couple of months would have done the job. The ship could transport a full Brigade or more all around the US coastline, reinforcing areas under pressure from the Mexicans. Russians and NA. The Korean units could be brought home, fuel could be transported from the middle east and elsewhere and essentially, the US would rule the waves.

[Olefin]

No Legbreaker its not a game changer - its a ship used as a transport but one they wont risk too much because basically it needs escorts or its dead meat - along with everyone on it

And Omega was not a gradual evac for a darn good reason - no one wanted to take their turn and believe that MilGov would be back - once those ships showed everyone wanted on

So could they have used a carrier like that for an operation like that or to get the 6000 men to the Middle East - yes for sure

plus remember even if you get avgas and planes - at best you have one or two nuke carriers left in commission - and no one is ruling the waves of an entire planet with one or two nuke carriers with very limited planes and avgas and weapons

even as cargo ships - yes they can keep trade going - but they are still essentially one or two ships - and its a long long way from the East Coast to Kenya or the Middle East or Korea without the two canals in operation

so you get a few trips per year at most out of them - and depending on what ship it is they may not have that much fuel left on board for their reactors

So does it change Omega or the RDF reinforcement - no it doesnt - and in the end it may explain why there was plenty of room or where the US got the fuel to go all the way to the Middle East with those 6000 men - who for all we know came from Norfolk after Omega arrived (nothing in the RDF says they came straight to the RDF from Europe -i.e. they could have come via Norfolk)

the canon still works and in fact it works better and closes several holes - especially if the carrier isnt part of TF 34, instead its a different TF going to the RDF with the 6000 men

[Olefin]

Have only been a forum member for a couple of weeks but have been avidly reading the old posts and there is something I feel that needs to be said about the fate of the USN carrier fleet.

A lot of people in the past have gotten their panties in a ringer about any discussions where its offered that USN nuke carriers may be surviving in the late 2000 to early 2001 time period. Most have the "well its not in canon" or "then the US would rule the waves and that would ruin the game for me" kind of flavor or bring out the tired "last fleet is shattered" argument.

However think about what it means for a carrier to be surviving versus being fully operational.

A nuclear carrier could be seaworthy and useable - but not be even close to operational.

You could have inoperable catapults, comm gear destroyed or non-functional, enough props or shafts damaged that she cant operate aircraft anymore, elevators non-functional, damage to the flight deck or hangars that is beyond their ability to repair, - the list goes on and on - but still be seaworthy and able to do something - but definitely not operational as a carier with an air wing

For that matter she doesnt even have to be damaged. Consider this list:

she doesnt have an aviation gas anymore and is in an area where they are out of it - say Europe or Korea - so while the ship works great she cant do anything with her aircraft.

She has av-gas but she is out of weapons and cant get more where she is-

she is at a dock, ready to go, but her reactor is out of fuel

Because of battle losses and spare part issues she doesnt have any operational aircraft left

Now does that mean they are useless - definitely not - but not as carriers anymore. A nuclear fueled ship like that would make a terrific troop or cargo transport (think of how much stuff you can put in her hangar decks) and if just carrying men she could bring several thousand men at once

A ship like that is hardly ruling the waves - especially considering most of them only have some light AA guns and would have to be retrofitted with better guns to defend themselves or they would be sunk by the first ship that has a gun bigger than 76mm they run into - but is still useful and still around for the day when the US gets avgas or can make the repairs

So does Belleau Wood being the last active carrier in the world mean that they are all sunk or damaged badly - not at all -

But if the Stennis is hauling passengers because its catapults are out of order and they cant get the parts then she is still around, still in commission - but definitely not operational as a carrier anymore