USS Saratoga Fate

[raketenjagdpanzer]

EDIT: Fixed up the post to reflect that Saratoga is not in fact a CV-N. Can't believe I made that mistake. Anyway, fixes are bolded.

It's always nice to see one's name mentioned.

My thoughts on the Saratoga being where it is were based on the idea that she'd been working the southwest Atlantic, near Florida, and had been ordered to stop convoys of Division Cuba from reaching the coast of Texas. She got into a shooutout with Soviet and Cuban surface elements and while she broke the back of Soviet Naval operations in the region and virtually destroyed the last of the "official" Cuban navy, she absorbed at least a few cruise-missile hits and near misses and was badly crippled. Realizing a ship that could maybe someday be put back in action was preferable to a ship that was a natural reef her commander beached her in the shallows off of Port Ritchie, launching all remaining a/c as she went.

For my campaign purposes, the remaining crew did an able job of damage control, and there is a contingent of Marines and a skeleton crew of sailors on-board to maintain the ship. As the ships condensers are a source of fresh water and her sickbay facilities are (despite being mostly out of supplies) essentially a pre-war quality hospital, plus her considerable machine shop facilities the sparse civilian population near her beached location welcome her presence and trade food with the crew for use of her facilities. The locals also promulgate the story that the Saratoga is a ghost ship, abandoned due to unexploded ammunition and danger of internal collapse. The crew on board maintain this illusion by leaving the outer deck and hull in seemingly poor shape, however the below-deck spaces are maintained to the best possible standards.

For hostiles who refuse to turn back, the Marines on board have full control of the CIWS systems, .50 cal. machine guns, light arms and ad-hoc rocket launchers. How long they could hold out against a dedicated assault is anyone's guess though: the ship is too tempting a target for salvage for New America to just leave alone for too long.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

My thoughts on the Saratoga being where it is were based on the idea that she'd been working the southwest Atlantic, near Florida, ...

For my campaign purposes, the remaining crew did an able job of damage control, and there is a contingent of Marines and a skeleton crew of sailors on-board to maintain the reactor.

If you want the reactor to be working, best change the name of the ship: CV-60 is an oil-burner.
USS Enterprise, Nimitz, Eisenhower, Vinson, T.Roosevelt, Washington, Stennis were the CVNs of 1995. R. Reagan wasn't even laid down until 1998.

Interesting: IRL USS Harry S Truman was launched 7 Sep 96, commissioned 25 July 98. In a T2k world, I surely think the Navy was able to speed her commissioning and deployment? She's under construction at Newport News, an obvious target for a Soviet nuke. Even if not finished, the reactor would be a great thing to have for rebuilding around Norfolk!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

If you want the reactor to be working, best change the name of the ship: CV-60 is an oil-burner.
USS Enterprise, Nimitz, Eisenhower, Vinson, T.Roosevelt, Washington, Stennis were the CVNs of 1995. R. Reagan wasn't even laid down until 1998.

DOH. D TO THE OH. I'll...fix that...

Interesting: IRL USS Harry S Truman was launched 7 Sep 96, commissioned 25 July 98. In a T2k world, I surely think the Navy was able to speed her commissioning and deployment? She's under construction at Newport News, an obvious target for a Soviet nuke. Even if not finished, the reactor would be a great thing to have for rebuilding around Norfolk!

It now makes Norfolk a lot more sensible as the final destination of TF34: assuming you're going with a canon "Going Home", the first place the soldiers see is a town with electricity (well, some, at least in the port facilities) and light industry and maybe (just maybe) they think "Hey, things are getting better" instead of "Hey, we're being thrown off the ship into a postapocalyptic wasteland, let's mutiny right now and go Mad Max on Norfolk."

[Legbreaker]

A mobile, nuclear powered carrier, even without planes isn't possible.
With the ability to carry thousands of troops and tens of thousands of tonnes of cargo, it's a massive game changer and Omega would have been a completely different kettle of fish. The US wouldn't need the German fuel to get their troops home - just half a dozen Atlantic crossings and a couple of months would have done the job. The ship could transport a full Brigade or more all around the US coastline, reinforcing areas under pressure from the Mexicans. Russians and NA. The Korean units could be brought home, fuel could be transported from the middle east and elsewhere and essentially, the US would rule the waves.

[Olefin]

No Legbreaker its not a game changer - its a ship used as a transport but one they wont risk too much because basically it needs escorts or its dead meat - along with everyone on it

And Omega was not a gradual evac for a darn good reason - no one wanted to take their turn and believe that MilGov would be back - once those ships showed everyone wanted on

So could they have used a carrier like that for an operation like that or to get the 6000 men to the Middle East - yes for sure

plus remember even if you get avgas and planes - at best you have one or two nuke carriers left in commission - and no one is ruling the waves of an entire planet with one or two nuke carriers with very limited planes and avgas and weapons

even as cargo ships - yes they can keep trade going - but they are still essentially one or two ships - and its a long long way from the East Coast to Kenya or the Middle East or Korea without the two canals in operation

so you get a few trips per year at most out of them - and depending on what ship it is they may not have that much fuel left on board for their reactors

So does it change Omega or the RDF reinforcement - no it doesnt - and in the end it may explain why there was plenty of room or where the US got the fuel to go all the way to the Middle East with those 6000 men - who for all we know came from Norfolk after Omega arrived (nothing in the RDF says they came straight to the RDF from Europe -i.e. they could have come via Norfolk)

the canon still works and in fact it works better and closes several holes - especially if the carrier isnt part of TF 34, instead its a different TF going to the RDF with the 6000 men

[Olefin]

On and Leg - with the forces that are canon the US is still most likely going to rule the waves - especially if the Texas module results in the players ending up controlling that oil rig and the US getting a ton of av gas - with that in hand you can kiss Mexican and Soviet control of a lot of Texas goodbye - and then the US will have plenty of oil for its fleet

three cruisers, a dozen destroyers and frigates and a carrier and an SSN isnt bad to start with - and I doubt anyone with the possible exception of France could match that anytime soon

and the timing for that is after the events of Troubled Waters (i.e. it will take a few months to get enough oil pumped to really have avgas to attack) - and dont quote Howling Wildnerness or Kidnapped - frankly those modules should be relegated to the status of Bobby is taking a shower on Dallas for a year fantasies of a New American leader and replaced with better modules or scenarios

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Olefin

and the timing for that is after the events of Troubled Waters (i.e. it will take a few months to get enough oil pumped to really have avgas to attack) - and dont quote Howling Wilderness or Kidnapped - frankly those modules should be relegated to the status of Bobby is taking a shower on Dallas for a year fantasies of a New American leader and replaced with better modules or scenarios

Look, if you want to throw Howling Wilderness and Kidnapped out the window for any campaigns you're running that's fine for you but you're talking like that's a given for any right-thinking T2Ker and I think that's a bit unreasonable. I'd be more likely to ignore the Eastern European Sourcebook or City of Angels (and I won't be ignoring them either). You clearly have lots of experience in RPG forum discussions and you seem to be a good debater but its not very effective to mix and match the way you have in the post I've quoted above. First you're arguing pretty effectively for modifying canon info then in the next sentence you're trying to reinforce your position by saying that two entire modules shouldn't even be factored into the discussion (and saying it in a tone that suggests it should be obvious to everyone).

"... replaced with better modules or scenarios"? Maybe GDW could've done a better job with Howling Wilderness and Kidnapped and a bunch of other modules and sourcebooks but they didn't. Those are what we have. If you're going to argue your points on those angles perhaps you should re-write Howling Wilderness, offer it for perusal, garner some support for it in the T2K community and then maybe you can act like it's a fait accompli.