GPS and Other Satellites

[RN7]

Once the nukes start landing I think we can forget about the US and Soviets having a satellite launching capacity. Some infrastructure and capability to launch something into orbit may survive, but not the resources to design, manufacture and test satellites.

France on the other hand might. It would depend on if you believe France was targeted by Soviet nuclear weapons in T2K or not. I don't think France was and if it was it was a limited nuclear strike on French oil refineries. The French completely withdrew from the Atlantic Alliance (they withdrew from NATO in 1966) once NATO crossed into East Germany in December 1996. Unlike Japan the French offered no support to the US or NATO before the war went nuclear in any capacity. Their actions after the nuclear strikes do not follow that of a country wounded by the Soviets. No cooperation with NATO in Europe, in fact they invade two NATO countries (Germany and the Netherlands), they carve out a new power-bloc with Belgium in Africa, they send a fully functional and well equipped military expeditionary force to the Middle East in direct rivalry to CENTCOM and the RDF, and they support French separatists in Canada.

Their main launching site is in Kourou in French Guyana which is in South America. Latin America wasn't nuked in T2K and if Kourou was nuked why did did the Soviets miss the Panama Canal? The French had another launch site in Hamaguir Algeria until the early 70's. Main French satellite tracking stations at Aussaguel and Bretigny-sur-Orge (France), Kourou (Fr. Guyana),
Kerguelen Island (southern Indian Ocean), Kiruna (Sweden) and Hartebeestehoek (South Africa) but they also used stations all over the place in Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Japan, Kenya, Norway Portugal, Spain and the US.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by RN7

Once the nukes start landing I think we can forget about the US and Soviets having a satellite launching capacity. Some infrastructure and capability to launch something into orbit may survive, but not the resources to design, manufacture and test satellites.

Agreed. IF, and that's a BIG if, anyone is in a position to launch more than a weather balloon, it'd be using existing stocks of rockets, etc. Can't imagine any new materials would be created for a good decade after the nukes, at best.

Originally Posted by RN7

France on the other hand might. It would depend on if you believe France was targeted by Soviet nuclear weapons in T2K or not. I don't think France was and if it was it was a limited nuclear strike on French oil refineries. The French completely withdrew from the Atlantic Alliance (they withdrew from NATO in 1966) once NATO crossed into East Germany in December 1996. Unlike Japan the French offered no support to the US or NATO before the war went nuclear in any capacity. Their actions after the nuclear strikes do not follow that of a country wounded by the Soviets. No cooperation with NATO in Europe, in fact they invade two NATO countries (Germany and the Netherlands), they carve out a new power-bloc with Belgium in Africa, they send a fully functional and well equipped military expeditionary force to the Middle East in direct rivalry to CENCOM and the RDF, and they support French separatists in Canada.

Those actions occurred after the nukes, and the "invasion" of the Netherlands and Germany were little more than a realignment of the border to the river - a geographical obstacle they could use to repel the hordes of refugees. Makes perfect sense to me, and is certainly understandable, if not even forgiveable.
As for the middle east, why does any country send troops? Oil, a resource France, like every other country, really, really needs. It'd be astonishing if they didn't have a presence there!

Originally Posted by RN7

Their main launching site is in Kourou in French Guyana which is in South America. Latin America wasn't nuked in T2K and if Kourou was nuked why did did the Soviets miss the Panama Canal?

In 2.x Chile and Brazil nuked each other. Where did they get those weapons? Was part of that deal a deniable requirement to attack French interests (Nato may have wanted a bit of payback for France abandoning them, and the Soviets to deny a historical ally of their enemy certain vital facilities and resources).

And what about conventional attacks? Not everything has to be nuked, not when conventional explosives emplaced by saboteurs will do the job. Nukes against French interests may prompt retaliation in kind, while sabotage may be either ignored in the big picture, or illicit a similar "low scale" retaliation by commandos.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I'll add some fuel to this fire by pointing out that there are inventories of replacement satellites kept in parking orbits for situations where segments of satellite networks fail. Backups, if you will, that can be maneuvered into place where a former satellite was.

This still takes a lot of work on the ground presuming the backups weren't hit, too. Also you'd have to wonder if the backup satellites weren't already moved into place.

But it is worth considering.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Also you'd have to wonder if the backup satellites weren't already moved into place.

Probably were if they could be - and hit by the same ASATs and shrapnel that took out the originals.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Those actions occurred after the nukes, and the "invasion" of the Netherlands and Germany were little more than a realignment of the border to the river - a geographical obstacle they could use to repel the hordes of refugees. Makes perfect sense to me, and is certainly understandable, if not even forgiveable. As for the middle east, why does any country send troops? Oil, a resource France, like every other country, really, really needs. It'd be astonishing if they didn't have a presence there!

France left the Atlantic Alliance a year before the nukes and remained completely neutral in the war. If France got nuked by the Soviets it would not be invading the Netherlands and Germany or would it have the resources to send an intervention force the size of what it does to the Middle East.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

In 2.x Chile and Brazil nuked each other. Where did they get those weapons? Was part of that deal a deniable requirement to attack French interests (Nato may have wanted a bit of payback for France abandoning them, and the Soviets to deny a historical ally of their enemy certain vital facilities and resources).

Is there some reference to French Guyana been nuked?

Brazil: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/brazil/nuke.htm

Chile??? I duno where they would get nukes from, but I don't think French Guyana would be on their list.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

And what about conventional attacks? Not everything has to be nuked, not when conventional explosives emplaced by saboteurs will do the job. Nukes against French interests may prompt retaliation in kind, while sabotage may be either ignored in the big picture, or illicit a similar "low scale" retaliation by commandos.

France still has a fully functional (or near enough) armed forces in T2K, including an air force and navy. T2K lists a lot of French land forces in the nearby Caribbean and French Guyana. I would say they also have enough air and naval forces around their main rocket lunching site to make anyone think twice about attacking it. France also has nuclear forces.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by RN7

Is there some reference to French Guyana been nuked?

Not directly, no, just the reference to neutrals being attacked to remove those assets for enemy use. It's up to the individual GM to decide for themselves if if was hit or not. There is a case for it, though it's debatable how strong that case is.
For my game world, it's getting hit in some way, although probably just a conventional guerilla attack on fuel storage or something like that which would take the facility out of action for a few years. Rocket fuel isn't the most stable of substances...

[Rainbow Six]

Disclaimer - I do not have any books in front of me - all of this is from memory so I can't quote page numbers etc. Someone that does have the relevant books and cares enough to check can likely verify (or not) the following (Legbreaker?)

Originally Posted by RN7

Is there some reference to French Guyana been nuked?

I think there is a reference to French Guyana in the V2 NATO vehicle guide. IIRC it mentions that there's a large detachment of Foreign Legion troops providing security for the Space Centre. I don't think it specifically says whether or not said Space Centre is intact or not so each individual would need to draw their own conclusions as to whether a large detachment of Foreign Legion troops would be tasked to provide security for either a) an at least semi functional site or b) a pile of radioactive ruins.

I choose to go for A.

Originally Posted by RN7

Chile??? I duno where they would get nukes from, but I don't think French Guyana would be on their list.

From memory it was Brazil and Argentina that had a nuclear exchange, not Brazil and Chile.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Gateway to the Spanish Main: SSN Corpus Christian
Last sub series: SSN-705 City of Corpus Christi

Similar names granted, but definitely different.

Or a typo.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I think there is a reference to French Guyana in the V2 NATO vehicle guide. IIRC it mentions that there's a large detachment of Foreign Legion troops providing security for the Space Centre.

Nothing I could find there I'm afraid. Closest units are as follows though:

Latin American Regional Command
Current Location: Caribbean Islands
9th Marine Infantry Battalion (BIMa)
3rd Foreign Legion Infantry regiment (REI)
33rd Marine Infantry Regiment (RIMa)

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

From memory it was Brazil and Argentina that had a nuclear exchange, not Brazil and Chile.

Oops, my mistake. You are correct there.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Nothing I could find there I'm afraid. Closest units are as follows though:

You made me doubt myself so I booted up my old PC to check.

Not sure where you looked - this is what I found (with page number)

V2.2 NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook, p88
3RD FOREIGN LEGION
INFANTRY REGIMENT (REI)
Subordination: Latin American Regional Command
Current Location: Kourou
Manpower: 350

(Emphasis mine)

Kourou is the location of the Guiana Space Centre

V2.2 NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook, p88
9TH MARINE INFANTRY
BATTALION (BIM)
Subordination: Latin American Regional Command
Current Location: Cayenne
Manpower: 450

(Emphasis mine)

Cayenne is the capital of French Guiana

So there is a large contingent of Foreign Legion troops in the vicinity of the site of the Guiana Space Centre and another large contingent of French troops in the capital of French Guiana..

I was mistaken about their purpose being stated - it's not. I got that from here

http://www.oocities.org/littlegreenm...T2K_France.htm

And then there's this from wikipedia

The 3rd Foreign Infantry Regiment of the French Foreign Legion, whose mission is to protect the CSG, has had a base in the Forget neighbourhood since 1973. They clashed with the Creoles in 1985 and 2006.

(CSG is the French acronym for the Guiana Space Centre)

So I'll stick with option A.