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Old 09-19-2018, 09:44 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Also keep in mind that the Soviets arent occupying all of China - far from it - in fact they hold relatively little of the country

Soviet Vehicle Guide

1st Far Eastern Front - Manchuria
2nd Far Eastern Front - Mongolia
Yalu Front - Korea

The 1st and 2nd Far Eastern Front have 13 divisions and 2 brigades between them, the Yalu front three divisions, a regiment and a brigade

So basically they went on a mission to grab off Manchuria and expand the size of their holdings around Mongolia - not grab the whole country

1st Far Eastern Front

Most of the units just say Manchuria (23rd Motorized is in Tsitsihar (Qiqihar) Manchuria (Heilongjiang Province) along with the 100th Motorized)

2nd Far Eastern Front

11th Tank is in Mongolia fighting separatists and the three Motorized Rifle are all there too

so the vast majority of China is not occupied by the Soviets

also keep in mind that the Soviet units arent exactly undamaged either - 3rd Tank has 500 men and 2 tanks, 50th Airmobile has 200 men, 98th has 300 men, 49th Tank has 2000 men and no tanks, 91st Motorized has 200 men and no tanks

6th Tank and 34th Motorized are probably the best equipped divisions they have left in the Far East - 4000 men and 36 tanks each and both are Category I

Last edited by Olefin; 09-19-2018 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:57 PM
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As you can see, the Soviet's have in some cases just 2-3% of their initial numbers, and they're the winners!
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:37 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Its not much of a victory when you have 200 guys still on their feet out of an entire division

FYI - one reason any book would be hard to write is the lack of information from China about that time - there is very little information out there and some of it contradicts itself - even on the TOE of what a Chinese division would have - i.e. whereas the Soviet, US, British and Kenyan forces had a lot more info to work with to get accurate sourcebooks on them
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
Its not much of a victory when you have 200 guys still on their feet out of an entire division.
And that tells you the Chinese are in so much worse condition doesn't it....
If they weren't the Soviets wouldn't have withdrawn so many units. They'd probably have had to keep sending reinforcements.
The whole point of them plastering Northern China with nukes was to wipe out the Chinese forces and free up probably hundreds of thousands of troops (plus untold numbers of support units, vehicles and supplies) and send them to other theatres, mainly Europe, but I believe (without double checking) some went to the Middle East and potentially Korea.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:10 AM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Oh I agree with you Legbreaker (look I said that and the world didnt end ) about the condition of the Chinese units anywhere near where the Soviet fronts were

And even if Chinese units survived intact in the south or central part of the country most likely many of them were garrison units - meaning that they would have been artillery heavy units with a lot of foot infantry - i.e. even if they still had any command and control left for China those divisions are not going to be ones you can move

and I will look thru my copy of the Soviet vehicle guide but you are right - there were definitely units that got moved after China got NUKED - definitely to Europe and I think the Middle East as well
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:06 AM
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I'd be quite surprised if the southern units had much in the way of modern equipment, particularly artillery, armour and other vehicles. Much of that would have been required at the front (to get nuked a little later) and the "garrison" and training units equipped with cast offs and left overs.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:15 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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actually those units had a lot of artillery - but most of it was older artillery or fixed emplacements (i.e. coastal artillery, AA units, etc..) versus towed and mobile systems - so basically good garrison units - think German Army coastal defense divisions during WWII
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