Cascadia vs. Opponents

[Enfield]

A few questions about Cascadia's opponents:

1. New America
2. Milgov

and the neutral ones:

1. Palouse
2. Yakima

It seems to me that there is sufficient distance between the areas they control according to the Pacific Northwest book. So does this mean that conflict between these parties is highly unlikely?

[pmulcahy11b]

Who else thinks that the Scientologists would emerge as a major power in the US after the Twilight War?

[shrike6]

A few questions about Cascadia's opponents

Don't have the new modules so don't know what Cascadia is, sorry

Who else thinks that the Scientologists would emerge as a major power in the US after the Twilight War?

Never really thought about the scientologists in game, Paul. Now that you mention it I can definitely see them being the de facto power in most areas where they have enclaves.

[Lurken]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Who else thinks that the Scientologists would emerge as a major power in the US after the Twilight War?

If not a major, a power at least. So also the mormons based out from Utah. Let us not forget the Catholic Church, as shown in Canticle for Leibowitz, that it can reorganize and survive.

[Enfield]

In the Pacific Northwest sourcebook, Cascadia are the separatist movement in Washington-Oregon. The force is made up of part of the 47th ID, led by the Proconsul (who may be dead) basically 4 battalions and supporting air units. The Cascadia movement was originally a quasi libertarian/environmentalist movement focused on trying to liberate or seek independence for a region stretching from northern California to British Columbia. This is focused on that region.

[shrike6]

Originally Posted by Enfield

In the Pacific Northwest sourcebook, Cascadia are the separatist movement in Washington-Oregon. The force is made up of part of the 47th ID, led by the Proconsul (who may be dead) basically 4 battalions and supporting air units. The Cascadia movement was originally a quasi libertarian/environmentalist movement focused on trying to liberate or seek independence for a region stretching from northern California to British Columbia. This is focused on that region.

interesting. thanks

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Enfield

In the Pacific Northwest sourcebook, Cascadia are the separatist movement in Washington-Oregon. The force is made up of part of the 47th ID, led by the Proconsul (who may be dead) basically 4 battalions and supporting air units. The Cascadia movement was originally a quasi libertarian/environmentalist movement focused on trying to liberate or seek independence for a region stretching from northern California to British Columbia. This is focused on that region.

Where can one find this? I am interested to read more about this, as this is where I grew up, and was my first duty station, YTC (Yakima Training Center) with the military. I know that at least three times in my life that area has tried to split the state, making a 51st state, libertarian views are very common (at least when I was there environmentalist was a bad word), so would love to see how the author did it.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by CDAT

Where can one find this? I am interested to read more about this, as this is where I grew up, and was my first duty station, YTC (Yakima Training Center) with the military. I know that at least three times in my life that area has tried to split the state, making a 51st state, libertarian views are very common (at least when I was there environmentalist was a bad word), so would love to see how the author did it.

It's available here

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ific-Northwest

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Enfield

It seems to me that there is sufficient distance between the areas they control according to the Pacific Northwest book. So does this mean that conflict between these parties is highly unlikely?

Designer's intent follows; individual referees are free to use or ignore as they see fit. Two main principles of design for The Pacific Northwest were (1) the setting is in a state of change and (2) PC groups can have a significant impact on its future.

The Cascadians

The sourcebook's date is May 2001, three months after the Cascadian/Proconsular split from the Joint Chiefs. The people who make up both of the Cascadian enclaves fled Seattle in winter and are still stabilizing their new homes (indeed, three months is arguably not enough time to accomplish everything they've done, but I was writing within the constraints of canon dates). In the short term, most Cascadian energy will be focused inward to establish their principles (pp. 30-31) throughout their territory. Once they have a stable political and sustainable production base, they'll likely start trying to spread their areas of control to ensure long-term access to natural resources and good salvage/scavenging sites. This future phase is where additional conflicts will arise with both the major regional powers and the little guys (e.g., O-RTF and the remnants of the Oregon state government).

As positioned, neither the main Cascadian stronghold in the Willamette Valley (western Oregon) nor the secondary one in the Okanagan (north-central Washington) is immediately in conflict with New America. However, recall that the setting is in motion: NA Idaho is expansionist. It will come into conflict with the Palouse first. The troops who established the Okanagan Cascadian presence got there because the Proconsul ordered them east to reconnoiter NA Idaho, so they are certainly aware of the threat - though their intel is likely incomplete and inaccurate. It's up to the ref to decide how aggressively they're pursuing this mission and how they're likely to interact with the Palouse, should the authorities in Pullman-WSU request assistance or offer alliance.

The Cascadians likewise fled far enough from Seattle to avoid immediate conflict with the 47th ID. This is driven by both pragmatism and kinship (after all, all Cascadian forces were Milgov forces until a few months ago). From the Joint Chiefs' perspective, the Cascadian military is traitorous and has made off with a significant chunk of U.S. government combat equipment, so the Colorado Springs regime is likely to pressure Commodore Ellis to do something about it sooner or later. There's also the probability of resource conflicts as the Willamette Valley enclave and the 47th ID both attempt to scavenge resources from the Washington and Oregon coasts and the cities along the Columbia River.

It's out of scope for the book, but there's also a chance for the Willamette Cascadians to encounter probes from the NA cell in northern California.

The Palouse

The Palouse Autonomous Region is there primarily as a first "friendly/neutral" faction for PCs to encounter if they enter Washington from the east - for example, if arriving in the region after the events of Going Home. It is on the verge of conflict with New America and, quite frankly, will be outgunned if NA decides to make a serious push on Pullman-WSU, which is the Palouse's center of governance, education, and (very limited) cottage industry. Because NA is expansionist, this will happen... at a time of the referee's choosing. In some ways, this is a regional twist on the classic T2k (and Western film, and D&D) trope of "protagonist gunslingers help an outmatched small town defend itself from bandits."

The Palouse isn't in direct conflict with the Joint Chiefs and won't immediately fire on troops claiming to represent them, but it sure isn't friendly to them. It is definitely a polity that supports the federal government in Omaha, though this is more a matter of principle than practicality. Recall that Pullman-WSU is built around a university, with all the problems inherent to a bunch of ivory-tower academicians involving themselves in civil affairs during a protracted state of emergency...

The 104th ID

I didn't cover them in great detail because of scope creep issues (and because I didn't want to write up another regional campaign), but the 104th ID is the place to go if you want direct conflict between NA Idaho and the military government's forces. This will resemble Red Dawn more than World of Tanks, but the region as a whole is light on armor and heavy on skirmishers.

It's also a poorly-documented adventure seed for PCs coming to the region from points east. It's resource-poor and is relying on a USAF Security Forces squadron for its reconnaissance, so newly-arrived troops with experience operating away from supply lines will be a precious asset. PCs traveling across the country who encounter the 104th may well be asked/hired/ordered (depending on their duty status) to perform reconnaissance into and past Idaho to determine the ground truth. The 104th, the 47th, and Milgov as a whole lack current intel on the status of eastern Washington, most of Idaho, and all of Oregon. In a world with limited long-range telecommunications and effectively no aerospace reconnaissance, gathering that information is once again down to the time-honored method of "send someone to see and hope they come back."

Hope that all helps. If there's interest, and if I have time, I may do a Google map that captures the key locations and the major geographic relationships in the setting.

- C.

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Designer's intent follows; individual referees are free to use or ignore as they see fit. Two main principles of design for The Pacific Northwest were (1) the setting is in a state of change and (2) PC groups can have a significant impact on its future.

The Cascadians

The sourcebook's date is May 2001, three months after the Cascadian/Proconsular split from the Joint Chiefs. The people who make up both of the Cascadian enclaves fled Seattle in winter and are still stabilizing their new homes (indeed, three months is arguably not enough time to accomplish everything they've done, but I was writing within the constraints of canon dates). In the short term, most Cascadian energy will be focused inward to establish their principles (pp. 30-31) throughout their territory. Once they have a stable political and sustainable production base, they'll likely start trying to spread their areas of control to ensure long-term access to natural resources and good salvage/scavenging sites. This future phase is where additional conflicts will arise with both the major regional powers and the little guys (e.g., O-RTF and the remnants of the Oregon state government).

As positioned, neither the main Cascadian stronghold in the Willamette Valley (western Oregon) nor the secondary one in the Okanagan (north-central Washington) is immediately in conflict with New America. However, recall that the setting is in motion: NA Idaho is expansionist. It will come into conflict with the Palouse first. The troops who established the Okanagan Cascadian presence got there because the Proconsul ordered them east to reconnoiter NA Idaho, so they are certainly aware of the threat - though their intel is likely incomplete and inaccurate. It's up to the ref to decide how aggressively they're pursuing this mission and how they're likely to interact with the Palouse, should the authorities in Pullman-WSU request assistance or offer alliance.

The Cascadians likewise fled far enough from Seattle to avoid immediate conflict with the 47th ID. This is driven by both pragmatism and kinship (after all, all Cascadian forces were Milgov forces until a few months ago). From the Joint Chiefs' perspective, the Cascadian military is traitorous and has made off with a significant chunk of U.S. government combat equipment, so the Colorado Springs regime is likely to pressure Commodore Ellis to do something about it sooner or later. There's also the probability of resource conflicts as the Willamette Valley enclave and the 47th ID both attempt to scavenge resources from the Washington and Oregon coasts and the cities along the Columbia River.

It's out of scope for the book, but there's also a chance for the Willamette Cascadians to encounter probes from the NA cell in northern California.

The Palouse

The Palouse Autonomous Region is there primarily as a first "friendly/neutral" faction for PCs to encounter if they enter Washington from the east - for example, if arriving in the region after the events of Going Home. It is on the verge of conflict with New America and, quite frankly, will be outgunned if NA decides to make a serious push on Pullman-WSU, which is the Palouse's center of governance, education, and (very limited) cottage industry. Because NA is expansionist, this will happen... at a time of the referee's choosing. In some ways, this is a regional twist on the classic T2k (and Western film, and D&D) trope of "protagonist gunslingers help an outmatched small town defend itself from bandits."

The Palouse isn't in direct conflict with the Joint Chiefs and won't immediately fire on troops claiming to represent them, but it sure isn't friendly to them. It is definitely a polity that supports the federal government in Omaha, though this is more a matter of principle than practicality. Recall that Pullman-WSU is built around a university, with all the problems inherent to a bunch of ivory-tower academicians involving themselves in civil affairs during a protracted state of emergency...

The 104th ID

I didn't cover them in great detail because of scope creep issues (and because I didn't want to write up another regional campaign), but the 104th ID is the place to go if you want direct conflict between NA Idaho and the military government's forces. This will resemble Red Dawn more than World of Tanks, but the region as a whole is light on armor and heavy on skirmishers.

It's also a poorly-documented adventure seed for PCs coming to the region from points east. It's resource-poor and is relying on a USAF Security Forces squadron for its reconnaissance, so newly-arrived troops with experience operating away from supply lines will be a precious asset. PCs traveling across the country who encounter the 104th may well be asked/hired/ordered (depending on their duty status) to perform reconnaissance into and past Idaho to determine the ground truth. The 104th, the 47th, and Milgov as a whole lack current intel on the status of eastern Washington, most of Idaho, and all of Oregon. In a world with limited long-range telecommunications and effectively no aerospace reconnaissance, gathering that information is once again down to the time-honored method of "send someone to see and hope they come back."

Hope that all helps. If there's interest, and if I have time, I may do a Google map that captures the key locations and the major geographic relationships in the setting.

- C.

This is very helpful. Thank you. It helps clear up a bit how to view potential conflicts. I don't know if you saw me comment elsewhere, but I'm very glad you made this sourcebook. I always wanted to run a campaign set in that region, for I have visited it both on the Canadian and American side and am fond of it. Also there is something that draws me about the expanses of different kinds of wilderness, the history, etc.

What I and my players were drawn to was the idea of the insular communities in parts of the Okanagan. They are playing a group of civilians who are trying to organize a survival community near Kettle Falls. Ultimately, I intend to have them contact the people at Coulee Dam and begin cooperating with them, but that will take place after they deal with some local marauders, refugees and ruffians.

When you mentioned "Red Dawn" therefore I smiled because that is very much the feel we are going for; it is civilian militia with possibly the occasional military advisor. They are more likely to end up spying on or harrying New Americans or Milgov forces than outright blasting at them.

[Enfield]

Should add, I'm using this map for the region.

[pmulcahy11b]

Is this going to be something we can eventually get on DriveThru RPG? Something to think about.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Who else thinks that the Scientologists would emerge as a major power in the US after the Twilight War?

Moderators, can you move this to its own thread? I think it's worth a discussion, but this is thread is not the place for it. (I'm sorry for putting it here; just a stray thought.)

[Tegyrius]

On mobile, limited bandwidth and time.

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Is this going to be something we can eventually get on DriveThru RPG? Something to think about.

You mean the PacNW sourcebook, Paul? It launched in February. Link in my signature block.

- C.

[pmulcahy11b]

OK, you just made a little money.

Is what you are writing on this thread excerpts, or new supplemental material?

[Tegyrius]

I await your review.

My comments in here are just my random utterings as the author. No plan (at this time) to compile them.

- C.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

OK, you just made a little money.

Is what you are writing on this thread excerpts, or new supplemental material?

I loved the Pacific Northwest - would love to tell that to Teg but since he has me on ignore my opinion doesnt matter much to him - but it really shows what can be produced by the members of this board.

[Tegyrius]

Okay, I'm back at my big boy keyboard now.

@Paul - To more fully answer your question, these are my comments on Enfield's use of the sourcebook, not excerpts from the published work. I don't really have much in the way of cut material and I'm not working on anything supplemental at present. One of the advantages of not working under contract was the opportunity to indulge my tendency to overwrite (but I think the work as a whole is fairly solid, without too much in the way of word count padding).

@CDAT - Sorry I missed your comment this morning. I will admit to not doing too much with YTC. It did get a brief mention and there's some additional implied plot connected to it (including the presence elsewhere of some stranded JSDF exchange officers and the remnants of their own training equipment).

@Enfield - Thank you. I did see your other thread but I've been mostly staying out of it because of the rapid divergence into agricultural details on which I am not qualified to comment. I did weigh in on the moral ambiguity of the Cascadian/Proconsular agenda. The movement is designed to be morally-ambiguous and thought-provoking, as they hold a strategic vision that's rare among factions in GDW's work.

At any rate - I am intrigued by your campaign concept and await reports from the field!

(I will be ecstatic if anyone winds up running a White Bats campaign.)

- C.

[shrike6]

I like what I see so far. The only thing I would have done different is add a eco terrorist group/community that believes the Twilight war is Gaia/Mother Natures ultimate revenge on humanity. Eventually expanding out and coming into contact with Cascadia and letting the fur fly so speak. thats my taste though. Kudos to the author, good stuff.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by shrike6

I like what I see so far. The only thing I would have done different is add a eco terrorist group/community that believes the Twilight war is Gaia/Mother Natures ultimate revenge on humanity. Eventually expanding out and coming into contact with Cascadia and letting the fur fly so speak. thats my taste though. Kudos to the author, good stuff.

Now that’s a good idea

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by shrike6

I like what I see so far. The only thing I would have done different is add a eco terrorist group/community that believes the Twilight war is Gaia/Mother Natures ultimate revenge on humanity. Eventually expanding out and coming into contact with Cascadia and letting the fur fly so speak. thats my taste though. Kudos to the author, good stuff.

Thank you, Shrike!

I think that's a solid idea and would work well for any blank spot on the map that needs a minor adversary to create friction. Just about any community in the region could have been taken over by such a group, so it's very easy to put it wherever the campaign requires. Ecoterrorist tactics and motivations may come out of left field for PCs accustomed to fighting in a conventional war and its aftermath, so it's an interesting challenge.

- C.

[Olefin]

Example could be the real life Earth Liberation Front which was active in the Pacific Northwest in the late 90’s

Fox News story from 2008


https://www.foxnews.com/story/fbi-ec...-terror-threat

More details here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

@Enfield - Thank you. I did see your other thread but I've been mostly staying out of it because of the rapid divergence into agricultural details on which I am not qualified to comment. I did weigh in on the moral ambiguity of the Cascadian/Proconsular agenda. The movement is designed to be morally-ambiguous and thought-provoking, as they hold a strategic vision that's rare among factions in GDW's work.

At any rate - I am intrigued by your campaign concept and await reports from the field!

(I will be ecstatic if anyone winds up running a White Bats campaign.)

- C.

Funnily enough, the PC group are rather morally ambiguous. In fact the one former politician in the group is secretly a downright sociopath (everyone in the group has a Dark Secret they are keeping from others) but also honestly believes that he is an excellent leader for society. Because he was in the prewar state government he has rejected Milgov as having usurped authority, but recognizes that Civgov is too weak to challenge Milgov, especially in the Pacific Northwest.

The other leader type is a former professional baseball player who has brought the drive, aggression, and tactical thinking he formerly used to build the local militia and gather like minded individuals together. He just...likes the Proconsul. I didn't even plan it that way. His mantra is "The Proconsul is like the Governor...but better." The player is playing him as someone who sees the treason as being the other way around--Milgov betrayed the Proconsul.

White Bats...my next campaign, if there is one, would be focused more on British Columbia. Who knows? Maybe my group will end up up there for some reason, maybe, if they are very successful, as diplomats, traders or intelligence gatherers for the Proconsular forces.

[shrike6]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Thank you, Shrike!

I think that's a solid idea and would work well for any blank spot on the map that needs a minor adversary to create friction. Just about any community in the region could have been taken over by such a group, so it's very easy to put it wherever the campaign requires. Ecoterrorist tactics and motivations may come out of left field for PCs accustomed to fighting in a conventional war and its aftermath, so it's an interesting challenge.

- C.

I dont know Oregon that well. But you could even use a State/national Park/Forest in the area for their "community" living off the land there like gaia would want. There is alot of flexibility with the concept.

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by shrike6

I dont know Oregon that well. But you could even use a State/national Park/Forest in the area for their "community" living off the land there like gaia would want. There is alot of flexibility with the concept.

A twist on this is a group that thinks that the collapse of civilization is GOOD, and wants to reduce humanity to village/family group levels to save Gaia. They might strike against anyone trying to rebuild, perhaps infiltrate them for that purpose even.

[shrike6]

Originally Posted by Enfield

A twist on this is a group that thinks that the collapse of civilization is GOOD, and wants to reduce humanity to village/family group levels to save Gaia. They might strike against anyone trying to rebuild, perhaps infiltrate them for that purpose even.

Like I said flexible. Any flavor works. This one is good too.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Enfield

A twist on this is a group that thinks that the collapse of civilization is GOOD, and wants to reduce humanity to village/family group levels to save Gaia. They might strike against anyone trying to rebuild, perhaps infiltrate them for that purpose even.

And is centered around those Guidestones in Georgia...

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Example could be the real life Earth Liberation Front which was active in the Pacific Northwest in the late 90’s

Fox News story from 2008


https://www.foxnews.com/story/fbi-ec...-terror-threat

More details here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

Now first off want to say I have not got the book yet (waiting for payday), but one thing to remember about the Pacific Northwest is that you have two VERY DIFFERENT cultures on the two sides of the mountain. Eco terrorism is not likely to come from eastern WA, much more likely from Western side, I am sad to say the eastern side is more likely to have terrorism like sovereign citizens. Western side is much more Liberal, Eastern side is much more Conservative (with very strong leaning to Libertarian).

Also the dry side (my home town got on average 0.2 inches of rain a year) compared to the average for Western WA of 66.03 inches. So anything you think you know from TV/Movies is almost 100% wrong when it comes to Eastern Washington (or if we can ever split the state Cascadia).

Now yes these are generalizations, and only one man's view, but on growing up on the Eastern side, joining the army serving both at YTC and Fort Lewis, later federal Security/Law Enforcement again on both sides of the state.

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by CDAT

Now first off want to say I have not got the book yet (waiting for payday), but one thing to remember about the Pacific Northwest is that you have two VERY DIFFERENT cultures on the two sides of the mountain. Eco terrorism is not likely to come from eastern WA, much more likely from Western side, I am sad to say the eastern side is more likely to have terrorism like sovereign citizens. Western side is much more Liberal, Eastern side is much more Conservative (with very strong leaning to Libertarian).

Also the dry side (my home town got on average 0.2 inches of rain a year) compared to the average for Western WA of 66.03 inches. So anything you think you know from TV/Movies is almost 100% wrong when it comes to Eastern Washington (or if we can ever split the state Cascadia).

Now yes these are generalizations, and only one man's view, but on growing up on the Eastern side, joining the army serving both at YTC and Fort Lewis, later federal Security/Law Enforcement again on both sides of the state.

Obviously this is where you live. My research and talking to people who live in the state corroborates this. I'm depicting the supporters of Cascadia in the east as being conservative libertarians for the most part.