Winter Cantonment Locations...

[Legbreaker]

If we're talking the winter of December 2000, there's actually very little information (at least I was unable to find anything in canon while researching the spring 2000 offensive).

The references in Going Home and Black Maddonna mainly relate to events in 1997 during the intial NATO offensive before nukes were used.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

If we're talking the winter of December 2000, there's actually very little information (at least I was unable to find anything in canon while researching the spring 2000 offensive).

The references in Going Home and Black Maddonna mainly relate to events in 1997 during the intial NATO offensive before nukes were used.

I'm wanting the info on Cantonments for the winter of 1999-2000. Where the forces had been prior to the NATO Summer Offensive that was launched in July 2000..

[Legbreaker]

There's next to nothing for the period from late 1997 through to the 2000 offensive. For that matter, there's actually very little for 1997 besides some very generic references such as "took part in the drive through southern Poland" as an example.

I would suggest looking at where units are marked as of the 1st of July 2000, reading over their unit histories, and trying to work out for yourself just how they ended up there. As there was little action in the preceding 12-18 months....

However, the 3rd German Army, of which the US XI Corps is a part, does not have accurate locations for the 1st of July - those shown in most resources appear to be post spring offensive when they were effectively cut off (the XI Corp at least) from the rest of NATO and the 5th scattered all over Poland.

Perhaps looking at all the other units in Europe and finding the holes is the best approach?

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

There's next to nothing for the period from late 1997 through to the 2000 offensive. For that matter, there's actually very little for 1997 besides some very generic references such as "took part in the drive through southern Poland" as an example.

That's why the DC Group is wargaming the 1996-late 1997 campaign out. We hope to fill in many of those details.

Unfortunately, the Third World War rules we are using essentially break down after a strategic nuclear exchange. For example, the rules permit no reinforcements, which is not the case in canon.

[Slappy]

Interesting thread here including a nice article by Legbreaker on the 2000 offensive.

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=354

A couple of things lead me to the belief, quite possibly wrong, that the German III Corps spent the winter of 99-00 in northwest Poland.

One is the opening of the Kalisz campaign history in the 1.0 boxed set stating the 5th ID's jumping off point as Chojnice. Chojnice is about 200km east of the Oder and the German/Polish border. If the 5th had to make it's way that far through contested territory, I would have expected some word on it. My assumption was that this point was somewhere near the 5th's winter quarters or at least near to an area held by a NATO unit that could provide security such that the 5th was essentially road marching to that point.

Second is that the rest of III Corps (Germans, US 116 ACR, Canadian 4th Mech) is currently in the area around Kolobrzeg in all canon listings. There doesn't seem to be a lot of these units going much of anywhere during the 2000 offensive, despite the fact that they were III Corps units. There was also no significant Soviet counteroffensive that far north that I can find a mention of. My supposition is that they were a blocking force against the Soviet 8th Guards Army to the south east of Berlin. They largely stayed put when the offensive went to hell and so are largely where they started.

I would put the III Corps winter quarters generally in the area bounded by Szczecin, Pila, Chojwice and Lebork with Kolobrzeg as the Corps HQ.

[natehale1971]

Thank you guys for all the help you've given on this.. It's got me to respect just how much the DC working group has been doing!

[Slappy]

Data from the vehicle guides is pretty sketchy.

There is no data on the US units in late 99.

5th ID: No info between October 1997 and 2000.
8th ID: Withdrawn for refit after heavy casualties in 1997. Reentered the lines under XI Corps in Jan 1998 but no data on location until 2000 offensive.
2nd MAR: Reformed in Northern Germany in January 1998. No data until 2000.
116 ACR: Transferred to XI Corps in May 1999 but no location until participated in 2000 offensive.
50th AD: No information after October 1997.

NATO Guide has very slightly more.

Canadian 4th Mech Brigade: Nothing from 1998 to 2000, but currently in winter catonments in and around Karlino, Poland.
German 29th Panzer: In Czechoslovakia in 1998. Moved by road to Baltic coast (country unclear) in September 1999. Part of 2000 offensive. Must have wintered in coastal DDR or Poland.
6th Panzergrenadier: Withdrawn in late 1998 after taking losses near Stutgart. Nothing until 2000 and then only to say part of the 2000 offensive.
21st Panzergrenadier: Similar. Nothing from 1997 to 2000 offensive.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

I'm wanting the info on Cantonments for the winter of 1999-2000. Where the forces had been prior to the NATO Summer Offensive that was launched in July 2000..

I know. In the Going Home module there are oblique references in some of the town descriptions about units that have previously been in the area (i.e. in cantonment over the previous winter) and some that have since returned after the summer offensive.