SOF in T2K

[Targan]

As many forumites will know from my past crazy stories about my long running campaign, it focused on a core group of SF-type PCs and important NPCs. But the PC commander Major Po actively sought out and recruited SF types for his team where he could, and they weren't easy to find. Many important roles in his team were filled by characters who didn't have an SF background but were very good soldiers and were given additional training where possible by Po's SF personnel.

I'm not sure that SF troops would have survival rates that much lower than other troops. Sure they get sent on very dangerous missions but they are also damn good at what they do and they are some of the toughest and most resourceful troops. I think their survival rates would be on par or even slightly higher than line infantry.

In an RPGing context, having an SF-oriented campaign is all about balance in my experience. Sure Major Po's group were hard core killers and tended to utterly dominate similarly sized and equipped opposing forces, but they also attracted a higher quality of opposition too. In my campaign from Krakow onward Major Po's group were being actively hunted by elements of Spetznaz, the GRU and even the CIA. And once they made contact with Colonel Richard Stark from the DIA they were tasked with some horrendously difficult missions, they prime example being their (successful) deploying of a backpack nuke at WarPac Reserve Front HQ in Lublin.

In my campaign the CIA started a program in 1996 aimed at detecting and preventing any military takeover of the US Government in the event of a global war. This would seem like an act of prescience and in fact it was (a result of one of the great successes of Project Stargate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project). Major Po was one of a team of 12 US Army SF and Intelligence officers and NCOs who were recruited by the CIA and placed in positions in the US military where they keep watch for signs of a military coup. That is why Po (originally a medical doctor) went from being an FBI forensics agent to being comissioned as a US Army Green Beret captain. His SF and officer training were fast tracked but the escalation of the war prevented him from receiving all of his training and that is why he didn't have jump wings.

After the TDM in 1997 Po decided that CivGov was responsible for the destruction of the US and he went to the DIA and told them all about the CIA project he was involved in. After that the CIA went to a great deal of effort to have him killed. In my campaign there were some really vicious CIA vs DIA stoushes that continued right on into the Armies of the Night module.

I think that if a GM allows a player to have an SF-type character it should be on the condition that the player puts some effort into researching the role and playing the character appropriately. The players of SF characters in my campaign had very complex back stories and tended to be played (IMO) appropriately.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Targan

I'm not sure that SF troops would have survival rates that much lower than other troops. Sure they get sent on very dangerous missions but they are also damn good at what they do and they are some of the toughest and most resourceful troops. I think their survival rates would be on par or even slightly higher than line infantry.

Perhaps. My assertion was based on the fact that in some of the SOF groups I've studied extensively (Vietnam era LRRPs/Rangers & SOG recon teams, WWII Allied airborne- not SOF, but certainly "elite"), unit casualty rates often exceeded 100%. Vietnam era SEALS did not, but they tended to be operating against the more isolated and poorly equiped VC in the Mekong delta (which became even more rag-tag after the '68 Tet offensive) rather than the better equipped and organized NVA. Only the WWII era-airborne troops were regularly involved in direct action missions. Green Berets leading irregular indigenous direct action units (Mike Forces & CIDGs) in the field, as well as manning SF camps, also had very high casualty rates. I'm not necessarity talking KIA here- a lot of the casualties were WIA and many returned to their SOF units where they were WIA again (or KIA). But, if you're WIA badly or often enough, you're not likely to be put back into the field. To support my idea for divisional/corps level provisional "Ranger" (LRRP) units, these folks could make up the training cadre for the army level Recondo school that would train these provisional Rangers.

On the other hand, in WWII at least, some conventional units also approached or even met the 100% casualty ceiling. In general though, per capita, in WWII and Vietnam, SOF (and Airborne) units had significantly higher casualty rates than conventional combat units. So, it's by no means a hard and fast rule that SOF casualties would exceed those of conventional forces, but there is some convincing recent evidence to support this.

One boon/bane (depending on how you look at it) is that it is so easy to explain the presence of SOF in T2K campaigns (at least in Europe). Since SOF often operated behind enemy lines, it makes sense to be meeting up with onesies and twosies. In some cases, it's more difficult to explain the presence of conventional forces deep behind enemy lines. For example, my PbP is currently set near Warsaw in mid October 2000. As far as I know, no NATO conventional forces were operating in that area in the summer of 2000. SOF, on the other hand, could have any number of reasons to be operating there, even that late in the war.

[Abbott Shaull]

I think by 2000 many Corps, Armies and Army Groups HQ would have their own 'Funnies' as such units were called in WWII in the British Army. With the fact that in Europe and Iran both side would have several levels of Special Operation units operating. Not sure what would be happening in Korea since GDW never got to make any module of there.

Many of the last properly train Green Berets, Rangers, and Seals would still be on the CONUS. First the SF and Seal units would be used to help with disaster relief. Then they would be needed in the Northwest and then in the Southwest. By 2000 some units would started to be diverted to deal with New American threat.

Much like the Soviet Special Force team roaming Southern Poland to keep an eye on what the Czechs were doing to the south as well the Free City of Krakow and the Kingdom of Silesian as well keep eye on what the Soviet unit that had stop obeying orders and were either operating as marauders or heading home.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The Funnies from WW2 refers to a number of tanks modified for the invasion of Normandy, they weren't special forces.

[simonmark6]

I'm not sure about WW2, but British units from 1946 to about the mid Sixties were involved in lots of counter-insurgency operations as teh Empire was disbanded. The SAS and other British elite units were involved in lots of Black Ops and undercover work, including "keenie meenie" (snake in the grass operations).

In one instance, British soldiers out in local towns were being targetted by terrorists. The SAS started to send out single soldiers in uniform followed but a disguised hit team (apparently a prerequisite of being on the team was that they could quick draw a HP-35 and empty the magazine into a target the size of a playing card -I don't know how far the target was from the shooter). The target soldier would get into trouble and the disguised team would get the terrorists.

Individual Regiments started to copy this technique and there were several instances of the SAS being ambushed by Regular soldiers and vice versa.

This would suggest that units would start copying succesful special ops tactics by forming their own units, these wouldn't be as effective or well trained but might provide some service.

As for the best men being siphoned off tor SOF work, this might happen but you can bet that lots of units would be hiding their best troops in order to keep their own units effective.

[weswood]

I was going to bring up Battalions having thier own incountry recondo schools but Rae beat me to it. I know for a fact 101st AB did this, my father was one of the LRRPs for a while, and I've read a couple books about it.

As far as "siphoning off the best men", the Bn asked for volunteers and the recondos were chosen from them.

Pop told some wild stories about 4 man recon patrols, and I don't know if it was while he was with the recon unit, but he was also an advisor to an ARVN unit.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by weswood

I was going to bring up Battalions having thier own incountry recondo schools but Rae beat me to it. I know for a fact 101st AB did this, my father was one of the LRRPs for a while, and I've read a couple books about it.

I've read a couple of memoirs by 101st ABN LRRPs. I wonder if your dad was mentioned.