Poland After OMEGA

[StainlessSteelCynic]

France and Poland have history that the Poles remember as being good for Poland, this may motivate them to initiate and/or accept talks with France especially with France playing no part in NATO operations.

Both links below discuss the effect Napoleonic France had on the formation of the Polish national identity.
http://www.questia.com/googleScholar...cId=5001340286
http://www.poland.gov.pl/Napoleonic,...and,,7288.html
The fact that their anthem specifically names Napoleon Bonaparte as showing them the way to victory is an indicator of the influence the Poles believe he had on their quest for nationhood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_Is_Not_Yet_Lost The Polish national anthem

[Adm.Lee]

France & Poland is very much a natural alliance. Any country that can be used to divert the Germans is an ally for whoever is a neighbor of Germany, it seems.
I can very easily see French influence appearing early on in Poland's recovery from the Twilight War.

Last night, I went looking at Going Home again. I saw about 10 centers for Poland to start organizing around. Up north, the American-Canadian enclave is very near several Polish units that have left the Pact in favor of the Polish Free Congress in Pila-- whatever that is. The PFC sounds like a pro-NATO, or at least anti-Soviet organization, I suspect CIA/DIA backing for it. Since there is nothing in the OMEGA OpOrder that implied it was pro-US, I wonder if it's instead supported by the French? Pila's one of the biggest un-destroyed cities around, too.
Major clusters of Soviets remaining, at least through the 2000-01 winter: around Lodz, Poznan, Torun, Lublin and western Silesia. I wonder if the Russified civilian population of Kalinigrad should count, too.
In addition to Krakow and Silesia, there is also an independent Polish group around Gdynia, the Warsaw militias, and the Black Baron between Bialystok and Warsaw. {Of course, we all know what happens to him!}

So, I rather like the Etranger summary-- several small forces coalesce into fewer groups, and eventually the two biggest ones fight it out, until the French step in and help them end it. Much like Germany, except the French work hard to make sure they stay divided.
My only quibble might be that the British might want to try to gain influence with one or another faction, as well. I guess they lost that one to the French. The Swedes and eastern German successor states might like to have friends there, too.

For a game, I'd like to get into a spy-like game using White Eagle, there's just so much to work with in there. If a ref could really play King Julian, that would be fantastic, he is a central figure to the region, given his power, ambition and personality. While knocking him off would be a task, setting things up so that the region doesn't lose the organization he stamped on it and fall further into anarchy is the bigger job. I could see a group of PCs working for any number of outside intel. agencies getting into that. Or mercenaries who couldn't be entirely sure about who they are working for at all!

[Raellus]

Prompted by your post, Admiral, I too took another look at Going Home. There is certainly a lot to work with there.

I'm tentatively planning on mapping out all of the units listed as being on Polish soil in Going Home, as well as a key indicated each unit's "loyalty" status. When it's done, I'll make sure to post it here.

I'm in favor of the idea of French meddling... er... "involvement" in post-war Poland, although "post-war" may be a bit of a misnomer. I wonder if Twilight War would be an appropriate title since, by 2000, WWIII would have entered into a new lower-intensity phase, but one which nevertheless promises much more fighting to come.

The Poland of the winter of 2000-2001 is indeed a Balkanized mess and byzantine intrigues no doubt will abound there for some time.

My question is how could/would the French get their agents, supplies, covert-action teams, diplomats, etc. to Poland in late 2000 and thereafter? Crossing Germany by land and/or would be dangerous and provocative to say the least. By boat would be hazardous as well (mines, pirates, the last few vessels of the NATO and Soviet navies). A southern route from the Med would be long and perilous as well.

I see northern Poland as being the best option for the seat of a new Polish state because of the many Polish army units in that region. However, one would have to somehow tie them all back together and give them a unified purpose. This could make for an intriguing T2K campaign focussing on diplomacy.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I wonder if Twilight War would be an appropriate.

I believe the 2300 continuation of the Twilight2000 timeline refers to the period from 2002 to many years on as the 'Contrail War'. Just another option.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Prompted by your post, Admiral, I too took another look at Going Home. There is certainly a lot to work with there.

I'm tentatively planning on mapping out all of the units listed as being on Polish soil in Going Home, as well as a key indicated each unit's "loyalty" status. When it's done, I'll make sure to post it here.

My question is how could/would the French get their agents, supplies, covert-action teams, diplomats, etc. to Poland in late 2000 and thereafter? Crossing Germany by land and/or would be dangerous and provocative to say the least. By boat would be hazardous as well (mines, pirates, the last few vessels of the NATO and Soviet navies). A southern route from the Med would be long and perilous as well.

I see northern Poland as being the best option for the seat of a new Polish state because of the many Polish army units in that region. However, one would have to somehow tie them all back together and give them a unified purpose. This could make for an intriguing T2K campaign focussing on diplomacy.

I could see the French using their mostly-intact merchant marine and navy to insert their agents and aid across the Baltic. I think they should be able to suppress or scare off any pirates without a sweat. {If they really wanted to, I suspect they could airlift stuff-- how are the Germans going to stop them?} If the Danes and Swedes object to French ships transiting their straits, the French have carrots & sticks to use-- technical assistance with rebuilding or naval threats. Sweden should still have its population, army and navy, but I can't see them wanting to pick a fight with the last European power.
Were I the Danes, and the French came through and offered to help rebuild & repair power stations and shipping, I'd take 'em up on it.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Polish Free Congress in Pila-- whatever that is. The PFC sounds like a pro-NATO, or at least anti-Soviet organization, I suspect CIA/DIA backing for it.

I think this is in some form of the Polish Government in Exile that moved from London to physically inside Poland during the war. It is pro-NATO with help from largely the DIA.

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Since there is nothing in the OMEGA OpOrder that implied it was pro-US, I wonder if it's instead supported by the French? Pila's one of the biggest un-destroyed cities around, too.

French weren't getting involved directly in Poland. They had agents there, I think I recall one operating in Krakow, but for a large part they were observers who would hire guns if they believe they could keep the French from appearing take one side over the other. The City of Pila size is one of the many reasons why Polish Free Congress has set up shop there.

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Major clusters of Soviets remaining, at least through the 2000-01 winter: around Lodz, Poznan, Torun, Lublin and western Silesia. I wonder if the Russified civilian population of Kalinigrad should count, too.

I think many of these locations the Soviet units would stay put to reinforce the local militia or attempt to head home themselves. Many in the Soviet senior officers have had enough of the war. The few units who would want to continue the war would be in the minority by this point. Even the basic grunt knows that the enemy is 10 feet tall and is in as bad shape or worse than they are currently. As for Kalinigrad, this town is up for grabs, I can see where poles would try to claim it, or the Germans.

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

In addition to Krakow and Silesia, there is also an independent Polish group around Gdynia, the Warsaw militias, and the Black Baron between Bialystok and Warsaw. {Of course, we all know what happens to him!}

These are the areas where the remains of the Soviet KGB and GRU, along with intelligence services from every other country including Isreal. I wrote somewhere else it was the French agent in Krakow, but now I suddenly remember her being Isreal agent. All of these places will have agents from all over Europe trying to move these pockets in hope of them gaining full control of Poland and future ally.

[Adm.Lee]

Abbott: I think you are remembering the Israeli agent in Krakow. I can't recall any French operatives in any module. What I am proposing is that French agents should be slipping in soon after the OMEGA evacuation. At the very least, they should be trying to find out what is going on there. Ditto for the Germans, really.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Abbott: I think you are remembering the Israeli agent in Krakow. I can't recall any French operatives in any module. What I am proposing is that French agents should be slipping in soon after the OMEGA evacuation. At the very least, they should be trying to find out what is going on there. Ditto for the Germans, really.

Yeah I realized that after I had written it bit.

[sglancy12]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

France and Poland have history that the Poles remember as being good for Poland, this may motivate them to initiate and/or accept talks with France especially with France playing no part in NATO operations.

Damn. You totally beat me to the punch Cynic. Now all I can do is pretend to be smart by commenting on your smartness.

Nice catch about the Polish National Anthem mentioning Napoleon. That's news to me.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by sglancy12

Damn. You totally beat me to the punch Cynic. Now all I can do is pretend to be smart by commenting on your smartness.

Nice catch about the Polish National Anthem mentioning Napoleon. That's news to me.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

Thank you for the compliment
Basically I'm a trivia whore I like accumulating all those random bits and pieces of information and while I can't usually give specific details like exact dates and so on, I remember enough info to use it as a 'head start' into the topic (particularly useful as a quick leap for doing a web search) or to see some of the links from the various smaller things into the 'big picture'.

[Adm.Lee]

In addition to being cut off by terrain and (potential) Pact forces, I'll stick to my opinion that the XI US Corps leadership is influenced by the Polish Free Congress representatives that are with them. The PFC is still trying to win over nearby Polish forces, despite their failure to do much before the offensive. In addition, the "loss of contact" implies to me that after the III German Corps broke contact, the Americans lost faith in their higher-ups. If we further assume some kind of communications breakdown (loss of radios or codes or whatever), then they are truly out of contact.

Where they are, the remainder of XI Corps can try to make the best of a bad situation. Every other NATO unit that's tried to leave their position (5th Mech, 8th Mech, even III Corps) has been driven back or swallowed up by the Pact forces all around. I can certainly see why they want to hunker down for the foreseeable future.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

In addition to being cut off by terrain and (potential) Pact forces, I'll stick to my opinion that the XI US Corps leadership is influenced by the Polish Free Congress representatives that are with them. The PFC is still trying to win over nearby Polish forces, despite their failure to do much before the offensive. In addition, the "loss of contact" implies to me that after the III German Corps broke contact, the Americans lost faith in their higher-ups. If we further assume some kind of communications breakdown (loss of radios or codes or whatever), then they are truly out of contact.

Where they are, the remainder of XI Corps can try to make the best of a bad situation. Every other NATO unit that's tried to leave their position (5th Mech, 8th Mech, even III Corps) has been driven back or swallowed up by the Pact forces all around. I can certainly see why they want to hunker down for the foreseeable future.

Yeah then throw into the account that the UK and other US units are leaving front line positions after things settle down so to evacuate home. It would be enough to make any Commander to think twice about stirring up a hornet nest again. No sense of giving the Soviet any more reason to move more units.

[Legbreaker]

I don't see the PFC being much of an influence on the XI Corp at all. What can they really offer the Corp that they either don't have already, or can simply reach out and take?

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I don't see the PFC being much of an influence on the XI Corp at all. What can they really offer the Corp that they either don't have already, or can simply reach out and take?

They're stronger together. An adversarial relationship will only harm both parties. Their respective territories are adjacent if not overlapphing. They are both hostile to the Soviets and their lackeys. It would be quite odd, IMHO, if they chose not to work closely together.