Aliens - 1986 movie (was Dog Soldiers)

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Typical American gung-ho attitudes...

I'm reminded of a line from The Golden Child, "Ahh, those wonderful Americans. So much power, and so little idea of what to do with it."

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'm reminded of a line from The Golden Child, "Ahh, those wonderful Americans. So much power, and so little idea of what to do with it."

"He is like Germany ,ambitious but misunderstood"

[Eddie]

Maybe I should have used the sarcmark to convey my meaning.

[Raellus]

Wow. And I thought I liked the movie. My uncle gave be a bootlegged VHS copy when I was like 13 and I must have watched it 50 times before going off to college. I've seen it a couple times since. I don't know why, but it just doesn't get old.

Anyone notice the similarities between the Colonial Marines in Aliens and the PMCs in Avatar?

They share attitude/cockiness, powered exoskeleton things, dropships- even the spunky Latina character. There's also the heartless corporation angle. Burke and the Giovanni Ribisi character could be working for the same company (or taken the same business ethics class).

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Maybe I should have used the sarcmark to convey my meaning.

Heh, sarcasm.

Originally Posted by Raellus

Anyone notice the similarities between the Colonial Marines in Aliens and the PMCs in Avatar?

They share attitude/cockiness, powered exoskeleton things, dropships- even the spunky Latina character. There's also the heartless corporation angle. Burke and the Giovanni Ribisi character could be working for the same company (or taken the same business ethics class).

ARGH! Spoilers!!!!

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

ARGH! Spoilers!!!!

If you watch the official trailer, I don't think any of that is really a spoiler.

[MajorPo]

I always liked to think of 'Mad About You' as the home life of Carter Burke. I know the dating of the series obviously wouldn't match up but the back story it adds gives a certain poignancy to his role

[Webstral]

"Aliens" remains my favorite movie of all time because there is just so much going on in it told in a quality way. I've seen the extended versions, and I have to say I'm glad the theatrical release was released as it was.

Gorman couldn't have done any better than he did because he is a statement about butterbars in Vietnam specifically and the commissioning process of the United States military (the Army in particular) as a whole. He received plenty of training, what with several dozen simulated drops. Training only goes so far, though. Gorman is a classic "gentlemen officer" of the sort epitomized by West Point: a great attitude about getting in there and fighting the good fight but too little experience to make good decisions under pressure. His personal gear, his weapon, and his role as observer and coordinator make plain the idea that he is not one of the Marines. (Also, his little work station in the APC makes a nice reference to the hive command structure of the enemy.) Had Gorman done things the right way, he could not have served as such a powerful indictment fo the commissioning system we "enjoy" in the US.

The indiscipline of Drake and Vasquez serves to illustrate the effects of a breakdown in trust and effective command resulting from having a buttterbar in charge of a mission that clearly requires field experience. Also, while I appreciate that there might be some extended footage showing the drop ship causing the problem with the reactor, without that footage we are forced to conclude that Drake and Vasquez cause the problem. Again, the problem goes back to the mission leadership. Gorman failed to make good decisions, thereby creating the window of opportunity for the catamity that befalls his command and the mission.

Note that as a private, Gorman's not so bad. He plays well with the team when he's no longer in charge. He fights bravely. Had he been obliged to enlist and go on a few missions first, he might have made an effective lieutenant.

No officer should ever be commissioned without being a private first! Neither West Point nor ROTC nor OCS should take anyone with less than two years of enlisted time--preferably as a rifleman with one combat tour under his belt. Anyone who makes it through that and still wants to lead has a much better chance of being effective than a ring-bearer or a 90-day wonder.

Have I beaten this horse into hamburger?

There are other very powerful Vietnam-esque images woven througout "Aliens". The enemy is an archetype of the NLF/NVA. He has inferior technology but superior morale. He uses the terrain to his advantage, striking when the conditions are right for him. He prefers close combat that reduces the effectiveness of American firepower. His internal cohesion is superb. His commitment is superb. His willingness to absorb casualties for the sake of the mission is superb. The attack in which the enemy is crawling through the ceiling is a very nice turnabout of the underground infiltration techniques employed by the NLF/NVA.

Not surpirsingly, some of the same Vietnam-esque imagery appears in "Avatar". I'm sick of Cameron's Vietnam references at this point, so I'm probably not as appreciative of all that in "Avatar" as I might otherwise be.

Gorman, ah Gorman! He serves his literary purpose, as does poor Apone. All prospective West Pointers should be obliged to watch "Aliens" to see if they get the message.

Webstral

P.S. Of course, there is far more going on in "Aliens" than the military commentary. I find the nuclear family and competing reproductive themes even more fascinating.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by MajorPo

I always liked to think of 'Mad About You' as the home life of Carter Burke. I know the dating of the series obviously wouldn't match up but the back story it adds gives a certain poignancy to his role

Don't insult Helen Hunt like that! I wouldn't kick her out of my bed -- I'd tie her to it!

[sglancy12]

Originally Posted by headquarters

"He is like Germany ,ambitious but misunderstood"

Someday you should explain where that quote comes from. Having just spent a ghastly amount of time researching the Great War, that really sounds like something someone would say during the first decade of the 20th Century.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

[kato13]

Originally Posted by sglancy12

Someday you should explain where that quote comes from. Having just spent a ghastly amount of time researching the Great War, that really sounds like something someone would say during the first decade of the 20th Century.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

It was actually said in the first decade of the 31st century (it is a "Futurama" quote)

[DigTw0Grav3s]

A couple thoughts from a relative newcomer of the board. I apologize for the timing, considering that things seem to have calmed down, but now seems to be the time to do so.

First, a little bit about me. I never played the T2k product line. I was brought aboard through Twilight 2013. Accordingly, I don't have a lot of the same mores regarding canon vs non-canon, unit dispositions throughout the timeline, and the like. I don't expect this to carry any weight - in fact, I would bet that it reduces my "authenticity" - but it illustrates my background.

The tone on this forum is truly bizarre. People seem to be more interested in debating the nature of canon rather than simply cooking up their own versions and sharing them with others. I find the confrontational nature of the board absurd.

I am twenty-four years old. I seem to gather that the crowd here is much older than I am, given the date of the original T2k and some of the life experiences that I've seen related to one another in posts. Why, then, can't we all get along? Is this anyone's first forum? This is a board about an exchange of ideas and creation of new material. Calling one another out about the canon status of various material is simply stupid. This is a work of fiction about a war that never occurred.

If people need to be removed from the boards because of confrontational behavior, then I would submit that it be done immediately. I've spent a great deal of time on forums during my life. In my experience, people's personalities (perhaps "personas" is more accurate) do not change. Their troublesome personalities simply ebb and flow like a sine wave until something breaks. Given the tone, I would say that we are pretty close to something breaking.

Also, someone please get Eddie to come back. He was one of the principle reasons that I perused this board, as he was on the 93 Games board. I enjoyed his no bullshit attitude and his experience in a field directly relevant to our alternate history pursuits.

Thanks,
DigTw0Grav3s
(Earlydawn)

[raketenjagdpanzer]

man what

[DigTw0Grav3s]

Apologies; didn't see the older dates earlier in the thread. Thought that this thread was more recent, and that the arguments had spilled over into this one.

Nevertheless, I still feel like it's a pretty accurate reflection on a new guy's thoughts with regard to what's been going on lately.

On the positive side, does this mean that Eddie has since come back?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I don't know but can we maybe discuss Aliens and so forth in this thread? And not site acrimony?

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

I don't know but can we maybe discuss Aliens and so forth in this thread? And not site acrimony?

Fair enough point but at least give DigTw0Grav3s the courtesy of directing him to a more appropriate thread for his post.