The loss of modern infantry weapons

[kalos72]

Imagine an M3 chambered for a 5.56Nato round...

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Imagine an M3 chambered for a 5.56Nato round...

I can't. For many reasons such a conversion wouldn't be possible. Or rather, you would have to re-work almost every major component of the weapon so there would be little if any of the original weapon left. The M3 is a blowback operated weapon firing from an open bolt. It fires a .45 pistol round. I'm happy to be corrected but I don't know of any 5.56mm weapons that use a blowback, open bolt system. You'd have to massively reinforce the whole receiver. Then there is the magazine well and the mags. And that tiny length, narrow barrel would have to be replaced with a much heavier barrel to avoid it rupturing and probably much longer one (or be prepared for a really fearsome muzzle flash). I'm sure others can think of even more problems with a 5.56 conversion for the M3.

[kalos72]

Targan - You seem to know alot about the physical aspects of the weapons, could you make an M16 out of recycled/smelted steel given a good machine shop and skill?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Targan - You seem to know alot about the physical aspects of the weapons, could you make an M16 out of recycled/smelted steel given a good machine shop and skill?

In theory you could but it would be pretty difficult. You'd need one or more gunsmiths who would not only need to be highly skilled at their trade but also intimately familiar with every tiny aspect of the M-16. Trying to perfectly replicate every component would be a nightmare. Some components would need very specific types of materials (particular grades of hardened steel for instance). The receiver of an M16 is made from aluminium alloy so you can forget about producing those, you'd have to fabricate steel versions instead. That would change a number of characteristics of the weapon (cooling, weight etc).

Seriously, if you have an expert gunsmith and a really well equipped machine shop you'd be much better off choosing a much simpler weapon to copy and produce (I'm thinking one of the many WWII SMGs that were produced using stamped components for instance).

A major factor in what weapon to choose to manufacture would be what ammo do you have the most of (or what ammo can you reload/produce yourself). If you can't practically reload or manufacture sufficient quantities of decent quality, modern, smokeless powder ammo your only choice would be to produce black powder weapons. On the plus side a skilled weaponsmith with a good machine shop could really churn out large numbers of black powder weapons in a short period of time.

I admit that producing good quality brass cases might be a problem but take a look at these weapons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1873 ) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1892 ) as examples of black powder firearms. That's a big fat 44-40 Winchester bullet and assuming you can hit your target its going to do some real damage even at quite long ranges. Older weapons used other materials including cardboard to make black powder cartridges. If you want to go for a really simple weapon you could even produce muskets. Unfortunately though they are slow to load and not very accurate. If you've reached that point you'd may as well produce some kick-arse heavy crossbows using flat truck springs for the arms.

[kalos72]

What about this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1894

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kalos72

What about this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1894

Great rifle but it uses smokeless powder cartridges. Smokeless powder is more difficult to manufacture than black powder. I was using the Winchester 1873 and 1892 as examples because they are black powder weapons.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Targan - You seem to know alot about the physical aspects of the weapons, could you make an M16 out of recycled/smelted steel given a good machine shop and skill?

I confess I only have very limited armorer experience, but I wouldn't want to try to reproduce an M-16 in a primitive shop. You'd have better luck with those old hardy Russian SMGs or even an AK-47.

I once read a book (or maybe it was a short story?) where some time travelers went back in time to try to allow the Confederacy to win (no, not Turtledove's superb Guns of the South). What was the war-winning item they took with them? Plans for modern gunpowder, and especially, plans for the Sten SMG. That's a weapon that could be reproduced pretty easily. They introduced it to JEB Stuart as a weapon for his cavalry forces, and an SMG would be excellent for horse-borne forces.

[headquarters]

The Ar15 platforms are just to finicky to be reliably built by hand .( Same as you Paul -got only limited experience but have seen and read some ).Think of the specific tempers of the steels and whatnot you need to make it go.

So I say -manufacture it yourself is most efficient if you use what caliber most prolific in your area.

Is there a cache of 9 mm ? Make cheap SMGs like the Sten.
Someone did make them in the woods of Poland during WWII with hand tools.

If rifle ammo like 5.56 maybe a singleshot .223 bolt or breach loader. Or a Ar 18 or AK variety -whatever is easier to produce.

Or if truly out of options - go for blackpowder weapons that can be made by a cottage industry with cheap materials and inexperienced manpower.

I love this "building the premisses" discussion .Inspiring to go back to the basic plans .

If you can get it - pics of "technicals" -improvised fighting vehicles are always a great addition to a T2K campaign imho .

Also it is what militias would use as spare parts gets rare .

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I confess I only have very limited armorer experience, but I wouldn't want to try to reproduce an M-16 in a primitive shop. You'd have better luck with those old hardy Russian SMGs or even an AK-47.

I once read a book (or maybe it was a short story?) where some time travelers went back in time to try to allow the Confederacy to win (no, not Turtledove's superb Guns of the South). What was the war-winning item they took with them? Plans for modern gunpowder, and especially, plans for the Sten SMG. That's a weapon that could be reproduced pretty easily. They introduced it to JEB Stuart as a weapon for his cavalry forces, and an SMG would be excellent for horse-borne forces.