Storing Food in T2K

[simonmark6]

Cooperage is a specialised skill and lots of wooden barrels might be a big ask now I think of it. However, big metal barrels might be achievable.

Rolling fairly large and thin bits of recycled iron or tin would be fairly simple. Electro tinplate this and weld it shut. Then weld the botton shust with a tinplated disk and then fill the can. Weld the top shut and you should have a reasonable product. It's large scale and manpower intensive but should be achievable, the metal is easily available, then you need a way of making a salt solution of the tin and a generator.

Again, this should be achievable with enough people and resources. In smaller societies, reusing cans migt be a possibility.

[GDWFan]

Lots of good ideas have already been mentioned here but Ill try to add a few.

Whole Grains would be very valuable food sources. Raw Wheat, Corn, Soy, Rice. These can be milled crushed and ground into many useful products.
They are stored in bags, buckets, garbage cans, rubbermaid containers, lots of household plastic containers would take on new value.

Nitrogeon sealed grains are the longest lasting that I know of, suck the air out of the container and add inert gas to create an oxygen free container.

Non-Hybrid Seeds would also hold great value to food in general for a settlement. These seeds are popular with the survivalists out there and could possibly be found?

I think you will see alot of coolers being used to store foods, knowledge of brewing beers and wines and distilling of grain alcohols for a drink that can be stored and keeps for long periods. So I would think recycling and reclaimation of old glass beer and soda bottles could be seen.

I also think that rabbit, squirrel and other small rodents would be cooped and breed for food. If chickens could be bred in my opinion Eggs would be one of humanities saviors, as much protien as a cut of meat and they take around a day or two to develop. If eggs could be produced in any large scale they could provide alot of the sorely missed vitamins of a meat based diet. They can be boiled and kept for sometime, the chinese bury them in ash and eat the month aged egg known as 100 year old eggs and you can pickle them for even longer keeping.

In addition to drying, salting, jellying, smoking and dehydrating these could give you a few options

[kato13]

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

[jester]

Originally Posted by kato13

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

You can use hot water and bleach to sterilize plastic bottles.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by kato13

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

Those old 2 liter plastic soda bottles would have more use as ad hoc water purifiers, wash thoroughly, filter as much matter out of the water as possible, Camp and place the bottle on a rock/concrete surface in direct sunlight. Over the course of 4-6 hours the water temperature can reach near boiling, killing any germs and leaving the upper two thirds of the water, relatively pure. Works really well in the summer.

[Slappy]

Confit is a simple process perfected by the Basques that will allow meat to last for months in a cool place with far less salt needed than traditional curing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confit

It is also delicious, probably a rarity in post 2K cuisine.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Those old 2 liter plastic soda bottles would have more use as ad hoc water purifiers, wash thoroughly, filter as much matter out of the water as possible, Camp and place the bottle on a rock/concrete surface in direct sunlight. Over the course of 4-6 hours the water temperature can reach near boiling, killing any germs and leaving the upper two thirds of the water, relatively pure. Works really well in the summer.

The best bottles to use if you have to "boil" using a plastic bottle are Gatorade G2 bottles. They are tough enough to use as regular water bottles and won't melt even if you hang them only 6" above your fire. They are some of the thickest plastic bottles made today.

The fastest method of purification without boiling would be to use either Tincture of Iodine or ordinary household Bleach. The Iodine will not kill everything and won't remove Radiological or Chemical (both Industrial and Chemical Weapon residue) contamination. Chlorine will kill almost all pathogens but not Radiological or Chemical contamination as well. Chlorine is definitely the better of the two purifiers. Ironically, BOTH chemicals use a ratio of 2 drops per quart of water. They both require 30 minutes to purify the water as well.
To Purify This Much Water................... This Many Drops of Purifier:
1 Quart of Water.................................... 2 Drops of Purifier
1 Gallon of Water .................................. 8 Drops or 1/8 Teaspoon
5 Gallons of Water ................................. 32 Drops or 1/2 Teaspoon
10 Gallons of Water ................................ 64 Drops or 1 Teaspoon
55 Gallons of Water ................................ 352 Drops or 5 & 1/2 Teaspoons

THESE DROPS MUST BE METERED PRECISELY! Both agents are poisonous to humans in too large a dosage. The water should also be filtered through a cloth to remove particulates as these will slow down the chemical reaction. You can have 4 parts per million of Chlorine. Iodine's safe levels vary from person to person (many people are allergic to Iodine).

[swaghauler]

One company who's website should be visited is CMG. They produce canned meats with a shelf life of TEN YEARS (this is the same as "old school" MREs boys and girls). I have 4 cases of Bacon stashed away as I type this. Each can has a pound of Bacon in it, and it tastes EXACTLY like Sugardale Bacon. That's right, this "survival ration" is actually EDIBLE. The 10 year shelf life blows away the 2 year shelf life of normal canned goods. CMG has several foods available too.

[WallShadow]

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years?
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings? Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold? IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be?

[Apache6]

Large numbers of MREs are usually shipped in CONEX boxes (8x20x8), which are usually waterproof. The individual packaging is pretty tough and I believe would survive 2.5 years underwater. The worst threat to MREs being stored is extreme heat, the underwater situation would at least prevent that.

If I'd been living on rat and dandelion stew for 2 years, I think that 3 year old MREs fished out of a sunken ship would be a delight.

I think salvaging a sunken transport could provide all kinds of great treasures for a PC group. The container next to the MREs might contain ammo, radio batteries and all kinds of other stuff.

Or it could be container after container of extreme cold weather gear destined for the Marines in Norway, which is not too useful for the PC group operating their coast guard cutter as a salvage ship out of the Florida keys.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years?
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings? Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold? IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be?

Even normal canned goods (like Campbell's soup) are proofed against salt water immersion IF the food container is uncompromised. The cans can rust after about a year submerged in water but still be edible. The expiration date is a good indicator of how long it will take for a container to fail due to moisture. MREs are proofed HIGHER than canned goods against "moisture corrosion" or spoilage IF the package isn't punctured. They could sit on the ocean floor for 5 years and NOT SPOIL.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years?
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings? Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold? IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be?

I would ask Medic to chime in here as well, but most containers (and people) are pretty resistant to pressure down to 4 atmospheres (about 40 meters or slightly more than 135 ft in depth). Depending on the contents of a can, it could be pressure resistant to VERY SIGNIFICANT depths. As I have stated above, 1 Atmosphere is equal to 10 meters/33.9 (34ft) feet in depth.

[swaghauler]

Solar dehydrating is the most economical method of preserving food for the long term. Only smoking meat requires fewer resources to preserve food.

The best "homemade" dehydrator I ever saw was comprised of:

1 solar blanket
1 bug net
2 saw horses
2 old aluminum framed screen doors

The screen doors were laid flat on the saw horses to form a rack on which the food was "sandwiched" in between them on wax paper with 1" gaps between the lines of wax paper (for air flow). The solar blanket was attached to the back of the doors (where the hinges had been) and laid to the ground under the feet of the saw horses to reflect the sunlight upwards from underneath the two doors. The bug netting was laid over top of the two doors to act as an extra layer of bug/bird protection. The solar blanket would ramp the temperature up on the screen doors to over 120F degrees. The aluminum would absorb and hold the heat. It would dehydrate tomatoes in a day. It was also used to dry seeds for the following year's garden.

Cars would also make good dehydrators. Just put racks in the cabin, crack the windows and cover them with bug nets to protect the food. The interior of a car will easily exceed the 105F to 118F heat needed for dehydration.

Dehydrating Food In Twilight2000:

Dehydrating food is a skill Easy(2 X Skill): Survival and takes 24 to 48 hours depending on the food item being dehydrated. If stored properly in a dry place at 72F/22C, the food will remain fresh for 1D6+6 months.

Temperature and Food Storage:

Most food using pre-industrial storage/preservation methods will last the longest when stored in a dry place at 72F/22C. A change in temperature of just 20F/11C will double or halve the shelf life of the food in question. At 52F/11C, the food will last TWICE AS LONG. At 92F/33F, the shelf life of stored food will BE HALVED.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Solar dehydrating is the most economical method of preserving food for the long term. Only smoking meat requires fewer resources to preserve food.
<SNIP>
Cars would also make good dehydrators. Just put racks in the cabin, crack the windows and cover them with bug nets to protect the food. The interior of a car will easily exceed the 105F to 118F heat needed for dehydration.

I sometimes dried my sage, basil, and catnip by placing them in the car in paper bags on a hot day. The bags allowed airflow but kept the sun directly off the herbs.

Hmmmm...with a little fudging and jackleg mechanic work---cut several panels out of the car roofs and trunk lids, insert scavanged windshields, maybe install a remote watering supply system--IV tubes or aquarium tubing leading to individual pots or beds. You can make mobile greenhouses to extend your growing/seedling-planting season. Mobile in the sense that if you release the parking brake, the greenhouse can be steered out of shadow into afternoon light.