The loss of modern infantry weapons

[neuk]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I can't believe people gave them up so easy. Personally, I rather die.

Friends of mine waited until the police turned up ate their door. an MP5-A3 puts a very good argument across, lets not forget the the police dog and of course the universal key they have for all doors in case you have lost yours, the seldge hammer.

No what happened was wrong on so many fronts, it has not stopped the illgeal weapons from being there, and a SMLE is so much more fun! Also England has a lot of guns for head of pop, same as English police are armed just they are better hidden, and not so many as the USA or Europe.

An English A.R.V. Armed Responce Vehicle, has two officers, two MP5-A3's and 9mm pistols, CS gas, and stun guns. The training at county level is done by SAS trained firearm officers to a very high level. Responce to pretty much anywhere is around 20 mins with Helicopter support, just for you Merc or Spec ops fans

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by neuk

Friends of mine waited until the police turned up ate their door. an MP5-A3 puts a very good argument across, lets not forget the the police dog and of course the universal key they have for all doors in case you have lost yours, the seldge hammer.

No what happened was wrong on so many fronts, it has not stopped the illgeal weapons from being there, and a SMLE is so much more fun! Also England has a lot of guns for head of pop, same as English police are armed just they are better hidden, and not so many as the USA or Europe.

An English A.R.V. Armed Responce Vehicle, has two officers, two MP5-A3's and 9mm pistols, CS gas, and stun guns. The training at county level is done by SAS trained firearm officers to a very high level. Responce to pretty much anywhere is around 20 mins with Helicopter support, just for you Merc or Spec ops fans

See the ironic thing here is now english cops are armed even though they have for the most part disarmed their citizens/potential probelm children. Infact your saying they have special response teams with MP-5's and a freakin Helo? Huh, sounds like more then enough reason fight those draconian goons that work for the government of England. I mean if the guns are "gone" now, why do they need such a paramilitary police force. Sure, nowdays they will use the war on terrorism as a excuse, but really they just want all the power so people can never challenge them.
I understand why people don't challenge the government- it's scary and you will be made the bad guy by the media. Not just that, it's almost a sure trip to the grave if your lucky and prison if you aren't. I prey that bs doesn't happen in the States, but I know what my choice will be if it does- not trying to be a hard dog, but hay somebody has to jump in the fire. Sorry for your loss of freedom man.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

See the ironic thing here is now english cops are armed even though they have for the most part disarmed their citizens/potential probelm children. Infact your saying they have special response teams with MP-5's and a freakin Helo? Huh, sounds like more then enough reason fight those draconian goons that work for the government of England. I mean if the guns are "gone" now, why do they need such a paramilitary police force. Sure, nowdays they will use the war on terrorism as a excuse, but really they just want all the power so people can never challenge them. I understand why people don't challenge the government- it's scary and you will be made the bad guy by the media. Not just that, it's almost a sure trip to the grave if your lucky and prison if you aren't. I prey that bs doesn't happen in the States, but I know what my choice will be if it does- not trying to be a hard dog, but hay somebody has to jump in the fire. Sorry for your loss of freedom man.

This is edging into the realm of real world politics, which is often a hot button issue. Britain has never had the connections to guns that the US does, so the perspective of the average Briton could be vastly different from that of the average American gunowner.

Here are a couple of older threads which are tangentally connected to this one
Privately owned weapons in Europe?
What happened to all those guns?

[kato13]

Another thread form that past which might be related to this one

Post-TDM Arms Manufacture

[neuk]

Originally Posted by kato13

This is edging into the realm of real world politics, which is often a hot button issue. Britain has never had the connections to guns that the US does, so the perspective of the average Briton could be vastly different from that of the average American gunowner.

Here are a couple of older threads which are tangentally connected to this one
Privately owned weapons in Europe?
What happened to all those guns?

Sorry this is not the thread to discuss this so i will try not to rabbit on. I have read the old threads above. There is a big gun culture in England, but it is very quite, after a number of shoot outs where the police rightly killed the bad guys the press is against all guns. OK I have a number of friends who shoot full bore rifle, like SMLE's .303 or Indian/Pakistan converted 7.62. .22 rifles are very much liked and common in this sport both bolt and semi auto(the only gun you are aloud in semi auto) 7.62 bolt action used for hunting ( deer stalking is BIG money in Scotland and the North East) Whinchester carbines in .38 are beloved, because the police hate them for there size and mag. Ammo is the hardest thing to come by, with each gun having to have its place on your lisence and diferent calibers needing more permits. The most you are aloud (to my knowledge) is around 1000 rounds. However in England you can have all the component parts to make the ammo with out a lisence! It only becomes against the law when and if you put the parts together with out the lisence. The bigest caliber that i know of locally is a .50 cal single shot rifle used in compeation, the police are as mad as hell about it. Within around a 10 mile radius of where I live there are some 15 rifles that I know of and three people who press their own ammo from reused brass.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by neuk

There is a big gun culture in England, but it is very quite, after a number of shoot outs where the police rightly killed the bad guys the press is against all guns.

Didn't mean to suggest that Briton did not have a strong gun culture. Sorry if it came off that way. We Americans are kinda assumed to be a little more gun focused than most other nations.

As always it is a shame when a few bad apples ruin things for everyone.

[neuk]

[QUOTE=kato13;18808]Didn't mean to suggest that Briton did not have a strong gun culture. Sorry if it came off that way.

You did not, as a gamer for a lot of years and a GM of twilight for the last 20(ish), i believe that my game gets better by talking to other gamers, in the North East of England where I live the gaming community has shrunk over the years.

I have never given much thought in my games for where the 'new' guns come from. Thankyou to all for making me think about topics like this.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

See the ironic thing here is now english cops are armed even though they have for the most part disarmed their citizens/potential probelm children. Infact your saying they have special response teams with MP-5's and a freakin Helo? Huh, sounds like more then enough reason fight those draconian goons that work for the government of England. I mean if the guns are "gone" now, why do they need such a paramilitary police force. Sure, nowdays they will use the war on terrorism as a excuse, but really they just want all the power so people can never challenge them.
I understand why people don't challenge the government- it's scary and you will be made the bad guy by the media. Not just that, it's almost a sure trip to the grave if your lucky and prison if you aren't. I prey that bs doesn't happen in the States, but I know what my choice will be if it does- not trying to be a hard dog, but hay somebody has to jump in the fire. Sorry for your loss of freedom man.

The police in places like the UK and Australia are armed because despite the law abiding populace largely having been disarmed of their firearms, the criminals still have ready access to guns. Unlike the USA, the citizens of the UK and Australia don't have any fundamental constitutional right to bear arms so it was a relatively simple matter in both those countries to legislate for most private gun ownership to be illegal.

I strongly suspect that the overall number of privately owned firearms in my country remains at a large fraction of what it was before the really draconian gun laws were introduced, the only difference now is that most privately owned firearms here are illegally owned. I'm not a police officer or a statistician so this is my opinion only but I have anecdotal evidence. And as well, a number of times in the past decade I have been offered a variety of guns for purchase "under the table".

Alot of people here were pretty miffed when the really strict gun laws came in but in Australian culture there has never really been rabid pro-gun lobby, well not loudly in public anyway. For most Australians Charlton Heston's "from my cold, dead hands" speech would be considered over the top, even a bit frightening. Different cultures, different norms, different forms of expression.