OT - Conspiracy Theories.... I love the imagination!

[Matt W]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Hopefully, he sent those SWAT teams to arrest the idiots responsible for skimping on maintenance of the drilling equipment.

Wrong sort of SWAT team. It's these guys

http://www.swat-ab.ca/

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by Matt W

Wrong sort of SWAT team. It's these guys

http://www.swat-ab.ca/

But, these SWAT guys don't have guns. WTF! On the side note if I ever became a criminal I hope they call these guys instead of the other S.W.A.T. guys.

[waiting4something]

I love conspiracy stuff. I mean I think most of it is blow out of proportion, but some stuff I find very believable like the JFK assassination thing. One that seemed very crazy to me was the one where people said the U.S. government constructed 911 and actual blew up the towers with pre-layed explosives. I don't really buy that, but some do. I think Waco had more bs then we will ever know about. The bombing of the Federal building by Tim McVeigh was a shady one too. Yes, I think he did it, but the details are very brief and he was put to death (by U.S. court standards) faster then a snow ball melting in hell. They are fun to discuss. You just have know when to seperate possibilities and reason. I love em they give us something to think about.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I love conspiracy stuff. I mean I think most of it is blow out of proportion, but some stuff I find very believable like the JFK assassination thing. One that seemed very crazy to me was the one where people said the U.S. government constructed 911 and actual blew up the towers with pre-layed explosives. I don't really buy that, but some do. I think Waco had more bs then we will ever know about. The bombing of the Federal building by Tim McVeigh was a shady one too. Yes, I think he did it, but the details are very brief and he was put to death (by U.S. court standards) faster then a snow ball melting in hell. They are fun to discuss. You just have know when to seperate possibilities and reason. I love em they give us something to think about.

I'll agree with you on JFK's assassination -- unfortunately we may not know the truth until the Warren Commission report is unsealed in 2014 -- and I'm willing to bet we still won't know the whole truth then. I mean, why would they have ordered the Warren Commission report sealed for 50 years if the government wasn't involved in the assassination, even if in an indirect way? They wanted to make sure everyone involved in JFK's assassination had a chance to die of old age first.

911 was an obvious terrorist attack -- the only thing our government is guilty of in 911 is negligence -- the warning signs were there in time to stop Al-Qaida.

Waco -- Koresh burned down his own damned building. It was a mass murder-suicide. The only ones I feel sorry for there are the kids.

Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols pretty much came up with that plot themselves, but they had a lot of help from others in the militia movement that have yet to be disclosed. The US has a a bigger home-grown terrorist movement than is generally acknowledged, and that problem is just growing, especially since Obama's election. There are a lot of angry racists in this country who are pissed off because a black man is in the White House, and there are a lot more people in this country who are such ideologues that they can't bring themselves to admit that the Bush Administration is responsible for most of the really big problems the US is facing right now.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'll agree with you on JFK's assassination -- unfortunately we may not know the truth until the Warren Commission report is unsealed in 2014 -- and I'm willing to bet we still won't know the whole truth then. I mean, why would they have ordered the Warren Commission report sealed for 50 years if the government wasn't involved in the assassination, even if in an indirect way? They wanted to make sure everyone involved in JFK's assassination had a chance to die of old age first.

911 was an obvious terrorist attack -- the only thing our government is guilty of in 911 is negligence -- the warning signs were there in time to stop Al-Qaida.

Waco -- Koresh burned down his own damned building. It was a mass murder-suicide. The only ones I feel sorry for there are the kids.

Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols pretty much came up with that plot themselves, but they had a lot of help from others in the militia movement that have yet to be disclosed. The US has a a bigger home-grown terrorist movement than is generally acknowledged, and that problem is just growing, especially since Obama's election. There are a lot of angry racists in this country who are pissed off because a black man is in the White House, and there are a lot more people in this country who are such ideologues that they can't bring themselves to admit that the Bush Administration is responsible for most of the really big problems the US is facing right now.

You know Paul for a self described mentally ill person you regularly say a great many very sensible things.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Targan

You know Paul for a self described mentally ill person you regularly say a great many very sensible things.

I have my lucid moments.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Waco -- Koresh burned down his own damned building. It was a mass murder-suicide. The only ones I feel sorry for there are the kids.

There are a lot of opinions about Waco even now that we are nearly two decades since the event. I for one would be willing to dispute that Koresh burnt down the building considering that the fire started exactly at the place where BATF agents had thrown smoke and tear gas grenades.
And while we're talking about conspiracies, whatever happened to the .50cal machineguns the BATF alleged the Branch Davidians possessed and what happened to the door the BATF alleged had .50cal bullet holes in it (which would actually prove their claims that the group had the .50's but they seem to have somehow lost this vital piece of evidence) where the Branch Davidians allegedly shot at the BATF.

The BATF alleged a lot of things about that siege and still haven't mananged to prove many of them with any real evidence.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

There are a lot of opinions about Waco even now that we are nearly two decades since the event. I for one would be willing to dispute that Koresh burnt down the building considering that the fire started exactly at the place where BATF agents had thrown smoke and tear gas grenades.
And while we're talking about conspiracies, whatever happened to the .50cal machineguns the BATF alleged the Branch Davidians possessed and what happened to the door the BATF alleged had .50cal bullet holes in it (which would actually prove their claims that the group had the .50's but they seem to have somehow lost this vital piece of evidence) where the Branch Davidians allegedly shot at the BATF.

The BATF alleged a lot of things about that siege and still haven't mananged to prove many of them with any real evidence.

I think the whole Waco thing was bad info from the get go and they just kept rolling with it even though they knew they screwed the pooch. Who was this great informer and is there any proof Super Dave was banging all the women and girls there? I find it very hard to believe any man would just be like go ahead bang my daughter and wife neo-Jesus. The informer was a ex-member who got kicked out of the group on bad terms- a gunfight between DK. The BATF might have even shot some of their guys. The Feds had the place bugged so well they knew where people where at all times. A second grader could have done as well when the end came.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I think the whole Waco thing was bad info from the get go and they just kept rolling with it even though they knew they screwed the pooch. Who was this great informer and is there any proof Super Dave was banging all the women and girls there? I find it very hard to believe any man would just be like go ahead bang my daughter and wife neo-Jesus. The informer was a ex-member who got kicked out of the group on bad terms- a gunfight between DK. The BATF might have even shot some of their guys. The Feds had the place bugged so well they knew where people where at all times. A second grader could have done as well when the end came.

That's sort of thing has happened with cults and national leaders throughout history, and will happen over and over again, because mankind's dark side will never be eliminated. Look at the crap Caligula pulled -- he raped his senators' wives' in front of them, and then forced them to listen as he critiqued the wives' performance in public. Sometimes, you can do a lot with fear, intimidation, brainwashing, and/or indoctrination.

The remains of Koresh's weapons after the fire were collected up and destroyed. There wasn't much left -- the fire burned that hot. There were no M-2HBs as alleged, but there were a couple of Barretts.

As for the BATF's performance at Waco -- it was, as we said in the Army, f**ked up by the numbers. I'll agree with you on that one. I can only hope that whoever planned that initial raid got sent to jail. That's not even the kind of raid you perform in the daytime, and you definitely don't do it on live TV that Koresh's people were probably watching. I doubt the raid-masters got in any trouble, though.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

There are a lot of opinions about Waco even now that we are nearly two decades since the event. I for one would be willing to dispute that Koresh burnt down the building considering that the fire started exactly at the place where BATF agents had thrown smoke and tear gas grenades.

IR films taken from aircraft throughout the siege show that the final fires started at almost the same time in several areas of the complex, and the place where the tear gas canisters were ejected was the smallest one.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'll agree with you on JFK's assassination -- unfortunately we may not know the truth until the Warren Commission report is unsealed in 2014 -- and I'm willing to bet we still won't know the whole truth then. I mean, why would they have ordered the Warren Commission report sealed for 50 years if the government wasn't involved in the assassination, even if in an indirect way? They wanted to make sure everyone involved in JFK's assassination had a chance to die of old age first.

911 was an obvious terrorist attack -- the only thing our government is guilty of in 911 is negligence -- the warning signs were there in time to stop Al-Qaida.

Waco -- Koresh burned down his own damned building. It was a mass murder-suicide. The only ones I feel sorry for there are the kids.

Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols pretty much came up with that plot themselves, but they had a lot of help from others in the militia movement that have yet to be disclosed. The US has a a bigger home-grown terrorist movement than is generally acknowledged, and that problem is just growing, especially since Obama's election. There are a lot of angry racists in this country who are pissed off because a black man is in the White House, and there are a lot more people in this country who are such ideologues that they can't bring themselves to admit that the Bush Administration is responsible for most of the really big problems the US is facing right now.

Actually its the mostly liberal policies (democrat and republican liberals) and democrats in Bushes last two years that did the damage (starting during Clinton with the loans for housing to people who could not afford them aka pressure on the banks to make them which in turn caused the housing bubble and the start of this major mess). The Drunken sailor like spending, which has in the first two years of the Obamma and democrat controlled administration multiplied it to an even more dangerous levels. You can blame Bush all ya want, but the current admin is just doing the same thing but even on a worse scale.....much worse. One cannot spend ones way out of debt. The liberal spineless republicans are to blame also for letting this happen. I tried to vote those out that I could, but that back then that allowed the democrats to take over and even make things way worse. Id rather have the debt and deficit at the end of the bush/republican controlled house then where we are now. (remember that in the last year or two the spending really went nuts, but the democrats were in control of the house which is the real spender, not the president. Bush was a spineless twit and tried to be nice to the democrat controlled House, and in turn let them spend way to much which gave us a bigger deficit, but now I sure hope that the next elections put some more conservatives with balls in there to balance the power, or even for a few years gain control. The spending even more so now cannot carry on as it has and is. As far as ideologues there are just as many that cant seem to realize that the problem is that the ones now in charge and mucking things up, are making Bush's screw ups seem reasonable. Every one thinks the republican in general are the ones that are in the back pockets of the bankers, seems to be just as many democrats there right now, sure they are putting on a good show, bash the rich and all..... but look really hard and see how many former Goldman sachs are in the Obamma administration. Bankers and politicians have been bed fellows since the begging of the system. For the democrats to claim they are for the average man is a bunch of bull and very hypocritical.

I'm tired of being called a racist when I'm not. Im tried of the hypocrisy from the Left, and damned well of shamed of those that on the right that do it as well, its not exclusive to one party.

I'm tired of the liberal socialist policies that every one things is so great, yah they would be but I like others are tired of paying for it. Right now over a third of what I earn is gone. Half of that goes to taxes, half of that goes into the other things like social security and such which I will likely never see any benefit from my contributions, nor do I expect too (and which just goes into the general fund anyway and is misspent like all the other money is). I'm gonna work till i die. or if i get lucky the economy will turn around and some of my investments will pay off and I will have a little nest egg to. I and my family are in that class of people that earns just enough not to get any help and is barely making it.
This country needs to man up and demand that the government get in order and quit spending money like its endless, some have already started doing that but the democrats and the generally liberal press have done nothing but make fun of them and demonize them as some sort of hate mongering racists. When its the democrats and the complacent press that have been the racists (noting that the tea party is white racist, or in general implying that whites in general are racists, when they are not) and demonizing or belittling them and stirring up rumors of such (which is hate mongering in its finest).

Sorry for the rant, Ill probably get banned or at least givin a good talking too. But why is it when ever some one from the generally left point a view says something that they are allowed to get away with it and are generally given kudos by others. But if some one from the right says some thing particularly in defense or to perhaps even set things in perspective they are demonized made fun of or even banned or threatened with it. (not saying this is going to happen or is epidemic here, though it has a touch of it, one of the best boards for the fairness of it all if I do say so myself.) But I have noticed a trend on several of the boards that I belong to.

With that said, since this board is supposed to be politically neutral, it would be much appreciated if the comments from the left were left at the door so to say and same with the right. It does not seem fair for one to be overlooked or winked at and the other is not. Let all remember this the next time we type.

If one does not like to hear the others political point of view, don't give yours, and you will get none in return.

Me personally I do not care about the discussion at all, but I do care that in a neutral environment, generally this board that one side is more tolerated then the other.

Dang, started ranting again didn't I, Ill let it go. "takes a deep breath and realizes I am late for work, DOh."

Later all take care and have a great day

[Targan]

..... Ok. Its funny, if I started talking about the things that p*ss me off in Australian politics it would probably be largely ignored by most readers here as being irrelevant to them. Then again non-Americans tend to get a very poor reaction when they talk about American politics so I won't do that either.

Interesting that there is a perception that left-leaning political comments on this forum are overlooked for criticism while right-leaning ones are not. I hadn't noticed myself, but perhaps that is because I'm left-leaning

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by Targan

..... Ok. Its funny, if I started talking about the things that p*ss me off in Australian politics it would probably be largely ignored by most readers here as being irrelevant to them. Then again non-Americans tend to get a very poor reaction when they talk about American politics so I won't do that either.

Interesting that there is a perception that left-leaning political comments on this forum are overlooked for criticism while right-leaning ones are not. I hadn't noticed myself, but perhaps that is because I'm left-leaning

Funny how that works

Heck on other forums where its really....um shall we say spirited even the people who are claiming to be on the right even get commented on by me. When I was young and idealistic I was on the left. Now that I am getting old and wise I am more on the right and realistic. (as the saying goes).

Thanks for letting me vent you guys are cool for lefties !

Back on topic, this oil spill is starting to look more like the Kennedy assassination all the time, i doubt we will ever know the truth. Every thing form the beginning of it was so FUBAR from the point of the BP and the Government. Heck I am wondering if they were not in it together to get the off shore drilling shut off so they could charge more for what other oil they dill (BP) and they also please the greenies and liberals (Obammas admin). Not trying to be a conspiracy nut, just a possible scenario.

I used to hang with some real nutty types, got away from them when I started to pay attention to what they were talking about. The conspiracy crowds that are out there are some of the weirdest yet..... guess its just part of the beginning of the end or something..... think about it, all the disasters, Crisis', political shenanigans, terrorism, people going crazy as in batshit doing weird stuff to them selves and others, the human atrocities in Africa, Asia, and the middle east. The Saber rattling of Governments, extremist trying to get nukes.....Wars, Famine, Pestilence...... starting to sound like maybe the bible may have been a warning. Or perhaps that it was just letting us know that history repeats itself and that this is our way of life.

Kinda like a SHTF thing that keeps repeating it self every so often in this world just to start all over again, or adapt to it.

Im just glad to be in Nebraska. (never thought you would hear anyone say that) :P Though if Yellowstone caldera goes that will suck.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Targan

..... Ok. Its funny, if I started talking about the things that p*ss me off in Australian politics it would probably be largely ignored by most readers here as being irrelevant to them. Then again non-Americans tend to get a very poor reaction when they talk about American politics so I won't do that either.

Interesting that there is a perception that left-leaning political comments on this forum are overlooked for criticism while right-leaning ones are not. I hadn't noticed myself, but perhaps that is because I'm left-leaning

I'll have to disagree with you Targ (even if that's reflects only me). I currently think that what happens everywhere in the "western world" (and outside of it) is relevant to all of us. Of course, I don't know much about Australian Politics (actually nothing) but I' convinced that it would have plenty of things in common with what there is to say about French, US or Greek politics.

I still have friends all over and I'm constantly surprised because we often react on very similar things. Problems being equally similar.

I find what currently happen in Greece to be relevant to me (especially as I think that it might be the first European country to enter a revolution). I support the Icelandic when they refused to pay the bill to UK. I'm very concerned about what currently happens in the south of US and it will affect us all. I didn't forget Haiti even as it went off fashion in the Medias...

Right now, I think it's the best time to be concerned.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Cpl. Kalkwarf

Actually its the mostly liberal policies (democrat and republican liberals) and democrats in Bushes last two years that did the damage (starting during Clinton with the loans for housing to people who could not afford them aka pressure on the banks to make them which in turn caused the housing bubble and the start of this major mess).

Later all take care and have a great day

As for Targ I have to disagree. And if you are right there still might be hope but I doubt it. Currently, I have not seen anywhere in the world politicians doing their jobs whatever their political colors. Strangely, they are all good at putting the burden on country's citizens who often fall to that old trap. "I'm telling ya, that's the other side who did wrong".

Of course, I can't say for other countries but I base my judgement on real life experience. The first date back to the mid-1990's. I was invited at a famous frenchman's birthday and you could find there all of our political leaders: right, left, communist, extreme right... Everyone going along fine.

Three month ago, I sent 580 emails to french politicans: 577 deputies, 1 to the senate president, 1 to the President and 1 to the prime minister. Out of these I received 8 answers: 1 f'rom the President (I don't like him but at least he does things right on that matter), 7 from various deputies (2 socialists, 1 communist and 4 from the right). From the 570 other representatives of the people, not a word, not even a polite one. Something else was interesting those who answered were either born outside of France or were elected in the most troubled areas of the country (often both).

France is a Republic which exists BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE and IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE. I respect that, a very large majority of the french citizens respect that, most of our top-politicians sit on it (not to talk of corruption at all level). Strangely, 15 years ago while taking a political course in the American University of Paris, the teacher (he was american) told us that France was increasingly in a situation similar to that of 1789. I agree and, today, I have to confessed that the most thorough political analysis of France has been given me by an American.

I sincerely whish that we would avoid a revolution but if it had to happen I would be very supportive of it.

Then, I agree with your last statement:

have all a great day

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Cpl. Kalkwarf

Sorry for the rant, Ill probably get banned or at least givin a good talking too.

With that said, since this board is supposed to be politically neutral, it would be much appreciated if the comments from the left were left at the door so to say and same with the right. It does not seem fair for one to be overlooked or winked at and the other is not. Let all remember this the next time we type.

Me personally I do not care about the discussion at all, but I do care that in a neutral environment, generally this board that one side is more tolerated then the other.

Politics are hard to avoid in any discussion of real world events. We all should bear in mind that sweeping generalizations and wild accusations are easy and fun but seldom factual. We all have different interpretations of what is Left and Right, as well as how much of each is present, tolerated, embraced, etc. on this board. To a hard-core Leftist, a centrist is in bed with the Far Right. To a conservative fundamentalist, a centrist is a radical liberal. There's no making everyone happy. Therefore, if one has axes to grind with the Left or Right, those axes are probably best ground someplace else.

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

OK, I'm out of this thread. It has all the signs of a flame war in the making.