Batteries?

[Raellus]

Are the batteries used in radios and NVGs rechargeable? My players have posted about recharging them and I didn't argue, assuming that they knew more than I about the subject. But tooling around online, I haven't found any indication that the batteries are rechargeable. Even if they are, they would require some sort of adapter, right?

I think it's time for the lights to start going out...

[chico20854]

AN/PVS-7b NVG's can use either specialized lithium batteries (which last a relatively long time) or standard AA's. During peacetime training AA's are supposed to be used.

Some radios (AN/PRC-127 walkie-talkies, for example) have adapters to allow them to use commercial batteries. They suck, however - really short battery life. The normal AN/PRC-127 batteries (and the ones in the Motorola Sabre radios that generally have replaced the AN/PRC-127 walkie-talkie) are rechargeable. As for the larger tactical ones in US service (PRC-77 and manpacked SINCGARS), I never saw rechargeable batteries or commercial battery adapters. Most of those radios in the units I was in were vehicle mounted in any case, and batteries were not an issue. (Although separate batteries were in some cases required for the COMSEC setting equipment).

[Raellus]

Thanks Chico. Can man-packed radios be "plugged in" to a vehicle and powered off its batteries when the radio batteries themselves die? Or, is it a one-or-the-other type deal?

[Marc]

Bon dia!

Talking in general terms, a lot of man-packed VHF radio devices can be transformed to its vehicular-mounted equivalent using the proper equipment, specifically designed to it. The radio transmitter/receiver would be the same in the man-packed and in the vehicular-mounted version. Basically, in the vehicular-mounted type, the battery is removed and the radio-transmitter is plugged in to a framework that usually includes a signal amplifier, the connectors required to power the equipment and the connectors that allow the use of the vehicular antenna. All the process can be completed in less than five minutes, if the framework is previously installed to the vehicle.

[Twilight2000v3MM]

Remember guys as long as the voltage and AMperage is the same as the standard battery why could you not make a battery to work with those radios?

Rechargeable batteries are pretty good these dyas so I can see a GOOD battery pack lasting a long time. I think memory is no longer a real issue with rechargeables.

[Graebarde]

Things to consider, which are often not, when talking about batteries is the weather. Heat and cold are enemies of batteries. Both will kill them in very short order, as will neglect.

Yes batteries can be rebuilt/recycled. It probably can be done in a 'cottage' industry and with due care done safely, though perhaps not the EPA standards. Some one with chemistry skills and mechanical knowledge should be able to set up the operation I would think. My chemistry is not that good RL, but the theory is relatively simple.

A thing to consider when talking recharging batteries is you will NEVER get 100% recharge. Each time a battery is in discharge, it reduces the overall effectivness of the battery. Automotive suffer the worst when discharged/recharged as they loose lead from the plates, which ultimately result in the lead buliding up in the bottom and shorting the battery out over time. Recharging you will loose about 3-5% each time. So the first recharge the battery is 95-97% of the new battery. Assume the battery only looses 3% each time. The first recharge, as stated is 97%, the next one is 94%, the next is 91%, etc. When a battery is below 80% in the automotive industry it is considered discharged, and in many cases will not serve as needed in the vehicle, especially in the cold. Marine deep cycle batteries stand up to the recharge much better because they have more lead in the battery (compare the weight of the deep cycle to the standard auto battery and feel the weight difference). Deep cycle battery service should include a periodic full discharge of the battery and slow-trickle recharge (which can take up to 24 hours).

I'm not sure about dry-cells, such as your radio batteries. However the AA that I have recharged still only lasted a few (ten or less) recharges. Perhaps it was something I did wrong, or just my luck. In game however I allow recharge of the small batteries as well as for the pack radios, thinking the technology is available and perhaps the goverment would get smart, (not probable but possible) and use rechargeables. Even if they too wear out, I think in the long run they would be more economical and would help with the logistical headaches of millions of thow-a-way batteries. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Grae

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Things to consider, which are often not, when talking about batteries is the weather. Heat and cold are enemies of batteries. Both will kill them in very short order, as will neglect.

Yes batteries can be rebuilt/recycled. It probably can be done in a 'cottage' industry and with due care done safely, though perhaps not the EPA standards. Some one with chemistry skills and mechanical knowledge should be able to set up the operation I would think. My chemistry is not that good RL, but the theory is relatively simple.

A thing to consider when talking recharging batteries is you will NEVER get 100% recharge. Each time a battery is in discharge, it reduces the overall effectivness of the battery. Automotive suffer the worst when discharged/recharged as they loose lead from the plates, which ultimately result in the lead buliding up in the bottom and shorting the battery out over time. Recharging you will loose about 3-5% each time. So the first recharge the battery is 95-97% of the new battery. Assume the battery only looses 3% each time. The first recharge, as stated is 97%, the next one is 94%, the next is 91%, etc. When a battery is below 80% in the automotive industry it is considered discharged, and in many cases will not serve as needed in the vehicle, especially in the cold. Marine deep cycle batteries stand up to the recharge much better because they have more lead in the battery (compare the weight of the deep cycle to the standard auto battery and feel the weight difference). Deep cycle battery service should include a periodic full discharge of the battery and slow-trickle recharge (which can take up to 24 hours).

I'm not sure about dry-cells, such as your radio batteries. However the AA that I have recharged still only lasted a few (ten or less) recharges. Perhaps it was something I did wrong, or just my luck. In game however I allow recharge of the small batteries as well as for the pack radios, thinking the technology is available and perhaps the goverment would get smart, (not probable but possible) and use rechargeables. Even if they too wear out, I think in the long run they would be more economical and would help with the logistical headaches of millions of thow-a-way batteries. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Grae

I know at the auto parts store I work at, we send the batteries for recycling, I thin k there are local places here in Pittsburgh that do that along with other cities so I'm sure once somebody establishes some order, that will be a booming industry. I had to drop a new battery in my car, my old one put out 10.2 volts but when down to 6.4 under load. If a battery goes under 9.6 volts under a heavy load, we consider it dead. BTW, there are also dry cell auto batteries too, our Optima series, a lot of racers, emergency personell and RVers use them since they power a lot of electrical equipment like radios and other stuff with them, they hold up longer.

Chuck M.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Twilight2000v3MM

Remember guys as long as the voltage and AMperage is the same as the standard battery why could you not make a battery to work with those radios?

You're right. I would let a group of characters with levels high enough in scrounging an electronics to try the recharging process using scavenged materials. Lucky military groups could keep in their power old batteries rechargers for an specific radio battery type. These rechargers are able to recharge simultaneously a variable number of batteries of the same type from the normal electrical pre-war supply. Of course, in T2K this electrical supply must be obtained from a normal electrical generator. But a power generator is a common device in the military, specially when talking about a units like Signals o Engineer Company. It's possible that the rated voltage output of an electrical generator differs from one nation to another. But this can be arranged with an electrical transformer (that can be implemented, if needed, using retrieved materials from electrical drives, etc. Again, scrounging and electronics would probe priceless skills).

Anyway, Graebarde is right and ultimately, chemistry will be the only response to the lost of effectiveness of a battery.

Ah! And if anyone has ever used a manual battery recharger (there are radio devices with such a complement, with a crank attached to it), perhaps has tested in a physical way the decaying rate of an old battery. When battery is low you need much more arm exercise to obtain (or to keep) enough power to operate with and old battery than with new one!