Aviation Assets.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by jester

Okay, then how about a balloon, a large balloon with a large enough basket in it to carry a couple machineguns for straffing, or some bombs, or a night mission where a squad fast ropes down to do their thing.

I am thinking of that old 60s or 70s movie where they traveled around ina balloon.

There is a V1 module, Airlords of the Ozarks,that centers around the use of airships by New America, and ultralights to oppose them.

[Webstral]

Getting back to the original question of Army aviation assets, I agree with some of the ideas already posted. Consolidation of the surviving assets into formations large enough to have a significant impact probably would occur even before the nuclear exchange began. Attrition the conventional battlefield would be very significant, to say the least. Although I am a firm believer in the ability of American/Western aviators to adapt to changing circusmtances, given the comparative loss rates v manufacturing time available from 10/96 through 07/97, succcessful adaptation by NATO helicopter pilots means a lowered loss rate. Losses still continue to mount at a rate greatly surpassing the West's ability to replace them.

Some time ago, we had a thread about the TO&E for armor in a division in mid-2000 that had a handful of operational AFV. The general consensus was that surviving tanks would be consolidated into formations that allowed commanders to continue to use them in the types of massed formations that history has shown are the foundation of modern mobile warfare, rather than keeping surviving tanks dispersed in penny packets among many smaller formations. Additionally, if the surviving tanks are consolidated into a single battalion, administrative and support issues are somewhat simplified. This isn't to say that battalion task forces can't be created with smaller packages of armor; however, the appropriate level of command has the option to parcel out tanks or keep them concentrated at will.

The aviation picture probably looks much the same. Surviving aviation assets and support would be consolidated at whatever level was necessary to ensure that a suitably capable formation could be kept in action. At some point, we would see aviation reserved at the corps level, then at the army level. Organizational consolidation does not necessary mean that the surviving helicopters are physically co-located. Just as artillery occupying widely-dispersed firing positions can be coordinated to strike a common target, so helicopters dispersed throughout the tactical or operational rear of an army (like the Seventh US Army) can be managed to execute a common mission. Protecting these assets against nukes, chemical weapons, conventional air attacks, and commando raids would be a high priority, as well as a real challenge given the varying nature of protective methods one would take against each of these threats.

Of course, by mid-2000 all of this may be passe. Seventh US Army may be able to operate only a handful of choppers, or none at all. Lack of fuel and spares, along with the deplorable state of the lines of communication in North Central Europe, may mean that the birds become inoperable.

I like the idea of using biplanes, though. Aerial recce will be as valuable as ever in 2000. Given the lack of aircraft, it might even be possible to use gliders or stationary balloons with telescopes and video recorders. Of course, those glider pilots are going to need some inccredible intestinal fortitude.

Gliders and biplanes for recce... Something to ponder. Getting back to some of my own work (sorry, guys--it's always going to be that way), in Manifest Destiny, a cantonment capable of manufacturing biplanes in 2001 will have a lot to offer MilGov or CivGov. If biplanes can be manufactured someplace with a reasonable degree of quality control, and if they can be moved over long distances (say, in the cargo hold of an airship or cinched to the bottom of the airship's cab), and if suitable fuel can be provided, then it just might be possible for American forces working to bring CONUS back under control to operate with air power. Even given the severe limitations of biplanes, the psychological impact of the USAF supporting ground operations would be staggering. Combine biplanes, ultralights, and airships with guns, rockets, and bombs, and you might just have a winning combination.

The Shogun's going to be bummed.

Webstral

[jester]

Light Easily Made Inexpensibe Planes:

It is VERY Simple to make such planes like the pipercub. A simple rec plane with either a thin sheet metal skin, or a fabric skin stretched over a frame of light metal tubing or wood. Personaly I would go with metal tubing or even metal framework, and a thin metal skin over would provide the best support.

You could make it where the wings simply unbolt from the frame and slide out. Another more complicated place, where and how to mount the engine. I would also use a pusher engine as it is more efficient and usualy allows for a more manuverable platform.

I would also have the wings in the high profile configuration with a centraly mounted engine.

Engines I would use, VW engines and Fiat engines would work well as they are aircooled and not watercooled, a 4 cylinder engine would do well in a light plane which is what we are going for.

Then, we simply install the control features in the fail and wings. These are usualy used by a pulley and wire system connected to the pedals and control stick.

As I said, get half a dozen aircraft mechanics, an engineer with the facilities and materials and they could probably put together such a craft that is safe and flys. It just won't have alot of the frills that most have these days.

Another idea with my aircraft design is you can fly it with landing gear that falls away from the aircraft. Which eliminates weight and drag, not to mention any controls. Upon landing it lands like a glider, another aspect of the high rear propeller.

And again, the bigger problem isn't making the aircraft, its the fuel to keep them flying. If one has a catonment they could manage a primative aircraft as they used to and still do store many in barns. As an evil GM I would balance the availability with a lack of technicians or fuel, making it very time consuming to process regular gas into avaiation grade fuel.

[Webstral]

One could launch a glider-type aircraft from what amounts to a giant slingshot or a fast-moving pulley powered by a counterweight. While this would not be a suitable weapons platform, it could be a very acceptable recce platform. With the right equipment, it might also be a radio relay station.

The real trick is having a sufficiently stable food source, a tolerable local security situation, people with the requisite skills available, and the right tools and materials. With some imagination, I'm sure many specific locales justifiably could be made to have all of these things.

I'm thinking that the Navy in SF Bay might put up an aerostat for radio relay and observation. If a pre-war aerostat can be refitted and repurposed, it may be possible to include a weatherized cabin with a radio room, etc. Crews might go up for approximately twelve hours at a time, although the intervals should be unpredicatble. The aerostat would be lowered for crew changes, then put back up for the next period of operations. If nothing else, a big balloon with the national colors and US NAVY on it visible from every part of the Bay should boost the good guys' morale.

Webstral

[headquarters]

we have a few older type planes on our site that were meant to use if you agreed on the older planes would be more useful theory in T2K .

(Or if you wanted to play some historical setting ).

Definently the older planes are more useful as they ned less fuel , have less electronics and can be maintenanced easier.

Biplanes for recce and artillery spotting would mean a huge advantage over a ground locked adversary .

Aerostats weer used in the war of the states using coal gas , in T2K it could very well make a comeback were no vantage points were available .

I believe the Grumman company already made one of their WWII type fighterbombers into a duster. I think its called the AgCat (Agriculture).

Given a cantonment with a steady food supply,a motivated leadership and some capable fellows to go out and get stuff , putting a few older type aircraft in the air is a possibility imho .

We have a non canon campaign that have seen a lot of aerial combat over the years - the players reverted to the "NotJagerprogramme" to counter the MilGov consolidation efforts . ( MilGov was crunching out a few WWII type planes and using them to gain airsuperiority .It could have meant constitutional rule of law in the CONUS.A disaster for the party.had to be stopped )

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Actually I always thought that much like at the beginning of WW2 where our military was very limited, that we would ramp up production once war began. Even after the nukes hit, there would be plenty of places that were not hit that could and would be turned into wartime production. I would think that we would at least be in short by at least 98 making counter insurgency type aircraft. Maybe even by 99 producing at least WW2 level of technology in tanks and APC's of even post WW2 armor and weapons.

Yea nuked American cities would be horrible, but one thing that was never taken into account is the American response much like to the twin tower or pearl harbor attack response. Auto factories would be turned into producing military trucks and tanks, small industry would be turning out other military equipment like mortars, fire arms, radios, uniforms, etc.

Just a thought and perhaps an interesting alternate time line anyway.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Cpl. Kalkwarf

Actually I always thought that much like at the beginning of WW2 where our military was very limited, that we would ramp up production once war began. Even after the nukes hit, there would be plenty of places that were not hit that could and would be turned into wartime production. I would think that we would at least be in short by at least 98 making counter insurgency type aircraft. Maybe even by 99 producing at least WW2 level of technology in tanks and APC's of even post WW2 armor and weapons.

Yea nuked American cities would be horrible, but one thing that was never taken into account is the American response much like to the twin tower or pearl harbor attack response. Auto factories would be turned into producing military trucks and tanks, small industry would be turning out other military equipment like mortars, fire arms, radios, uniforms, etc.

Just a thought and perhaps an interesting alternate time line anyway.

I believe that this would take place as well .Maybe such programs would have to be initiated by commandeering local resources by the local military cmdr.